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Oh, OH! Just remembered. We touched briefly on the broken dreamcatcher in 312… guess the bad dreams are coming through now. Anyways, did anyone catch the dreamcatcher in Charming’s dream? It spins ’round very quickly at one point, like the mobile, but it’s definitely the dream catcher. I’ll find a video, hang on.
It’s 2:47-2:49. Watching again, I think it is the mobile but it’s very dreamcatchery. Has the mobile always been webbed in the center? Come to think of it, there is a LOT of dreamcatchery stuff in that nursery – the windows, the scrolling up along the beams. Huh. Has it always been like that?
ETA again, I can only find photos of the unicorns. Is it possible we’ve never seen photos of the top before? Looking at photos of that nursery, I am CRACKING UP at all of the dreamcatcher imagery. The architecture is all circles with webby lines. Mostly amused I’d never noticed it before.
[adrotate group="5"]Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
So I went looking for the JMO tweet above about hold tight – IMO all she was saying to that fan was hold tight for CS scenes, which we have had, no biggie.
Did find a tweet that indicated the best is yet to come for Emma, in 321/322. Huh.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Regarding the tweets, I think the show folks are trying to walk the fine line between keeping the fans engaged, wording things such as they are telling the truth, and keeping the mystery about the show. If they answered all of our questions, what reason would we have to keep watching?
If we want to read into tweets, there is always MRJ’s tweet yesterday that said “No dying,” though it was in response to a fan, not in the context of the show. No dying? Hmmm. (Goes back to the point, why are we so quick to consider some things important & dismiss others?)
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Agree Phee. Watching again that cut between SF & OQ was just… really blatant… and definitely dug the knife in deeper. If it’s some sort of parallel storytelling, then perhaps there are reasons. (Or perhaps it was just cruelty – it’s just a musing.)
I have to head out of town tonight and won’t be able to watch 316 til Thursday. (I actually considered moving my flight once I realized it… how horrible is that? Common sense prevailed though.) I know I’ll have some down time while there though, so I might watch 312-315 again and make notes. I was surprised to gain an appreciation for those episodes in context much like I had with 101-311… somehow I thought it would be different with them being so recent. There were some things that made more sense; I actually found the Tower much better (I hated that ep the first time through, in a whole different way than Quiet Minds.)
The biggest thing that stuck out to me is I was continuously having niggles of “Wait, that’s not right.” I spent 101-311 watching for teeny details that foretold the story ahead… and they were there, in spades. I really think coming at it from the SF perspective lends to that, because as much as the focus flits around everywhere, SF are – quietly, always – the center plot line of the show. I watched 312-314 looking at it from a slightly broader story perspective, and with the knowledge of what happens a few episodes out, and there are things that are just slightly off. For example, Zelena claims to have been able to open the crypt because she’s Regina’s sister. But we know that’s a lie; she needed Regina’s blood (thanks, monkeyWalsh) to get it open – just like she needed Rumple’s blood to open the safe. So is she really Regina’s sister at all? Likewise, Hook’s story changes about the potion. There is one story in NYC, a second upon arrival in SB (where he states he assumed Snow sent it,) and a third with Neal, where it is implied – but not stated – Neal sent it, and Hook “appears” to have known all along.
Stuff like this, plus my conviction the SF story is not dead, is making me think we’re in a season of misdirection. The fans figure every.single.thing out, so why not beat them at their game? Throw out a few misleading spoilers, throw some misdirects in the show, and maybe they can finally surprise their fans. The clues are there, if you are paying attention… but just like the town missed the fact that Regina & Emma were working together because they were predisposed to blame Regina, so too is it easy for the fans to jump to items that prove themselves right. I still question if Hook’s commentary in the CS scenes isn’t something other than what it appears, but now we digress as I am getting into crack theory territory.
Returning to the show… in 314 they made a point to show Z required Charming to face his fears, so that his courage would rise to the surface & Z could snatch it. So, too, was Rumple required to clear his head so she could access his brain (dagger.) What of the heart, then? Perhaps this is where we have Emma, required to pull her love to the surface, so Z can access it. The dagger, we know, follows Rumple & realm-jumps with him, not much explanation, just kind of always there. So too does Charming’s sword seem to be ever-present. When I think of Charming & Rumple, I think of those two items. Now we have the pendant, which audiences likely would have forgotten – it was touched upon briefly twice, in two far-apart episodes a season prior. Important as shippers, yes, but not the general viewer. So, it gets brought back up and explained to the audience – symbol of love, jumped realms, blah blah blah. All of this right after Regina’s speech at the end of 314 about the power of items is… peculiar. Popular “heart” theories in my house have been that she wants Regina’s actual heart (since you think of Regina when you think of OUAT & hearts,) or that’s why she’s after the Snowflake. I am wondering now if perhaps it’s the necklace she’ll be after. It is a symbol of love after all. Just a thought.
And thanks, Phee, I’m kind of fond of “other roomie,” too. She is not a shipper by nature. We had a good, old friend (met through a former fanbase) here for a visit last night, and bestie-roomie, good friend & I spent part of the evening explaining “shipping” and fanbases to her. At one point, other roomie asked good friend, “Do you fanbase?” and we had to explain it’s a noun, not a verb. Which makes it all the funnier to watch her ship SF, because for someone who doesn’t ship, she is shipping them HARD. It’s not the first time she’s yelled for them to kiss. (Actually, it’s at least the third. Funny girl!)
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Finally caught other roomie up on the show, all the way. Watched 315 and ended up cracking up through the death scene – not because it was funny of course, but because other roomie repeatedly shouted at the TV – “Kiss him! KISS HIM ALREADY!!” She was VERY aggravated by the lack of a TLK, because it made no sense to her… as a non-shippy viewer. Just reiterates what we have been saying about that. Incidentally at the end of the scene, she very adamantly declared, “He’s not dead.”
Couple things of note – Regina’s line in 313 really stuck out to us. She says, “There’s a fire in the courtyard that powers the spell.” When we see the courtyard where this fire eminates from, it looks awfully reminiscent of the Wizard’s chamber in WoO. And of course, “fire” being the impetus for the spell… I dunno. Just seems like there is something there.
Also, they seem to be doing some sort of Robin Hood/Neal parallel. 1) He’s a thief, 2) he references losing his child’s mother in the course of the job, 3) he references specifically not liking to use magic unless it was the only way. Think there might have been a thing or two that I forgot, but it was just something I noticed in 12-15.
Literally as I was typing that out, I was pondering what the point would be – then remembered A&E’s recent insisting that Emma & Regina are a lot alike. If RH & Neal are alike and E&R are alike then OQ & SF are a lot alike? Incidentally, if RH & R are being utilized as some sort of SF parallel (and realize here I am talking from a “there is more SF story to tell” viewpoint) then it makes their weird insertion in this episode a bit more palatable. (I definitely did think SF when RH went straight to the “have a drink” thing, but I figured it was just ship-bias.)
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Yah. Those tweets and the lack of sensicalness… not really helping with my position. I’m gonna hang out over here in my little corner still… there is more to this story.
Had a thought the other day; Adam has said 1) this has been planned since summer hiatus, 2) it is story driven and 3) he’s dead. Why is it that we are so quick to call him a liar about 1&2 but trust 3 to be true? Crack theories may be cracky, but I posture that all three items could be true.
The tweets above – particularly the last three – don’t deter me from hope. He tells a departed SF fan to let him know when they’ve returned to the show (indicating he believes they’ll be back,) a Neal fan to hang in there (aka encouraging them to keep watching,) and a third SF fan that they are telling an ups/downs story… we are at a down now, there will be ups. My rose-colored-goggles (RCGs) have me looking at that in a positive way.
Phee discussed it a few pages back – this fanbase has known EVERYTHING before it happens. Why not throw them off track? Spoil something, give fans a fake out, then keep the real thing under wraps. I hypothesized they would do that in 315/316 before 315 aired, and though I was shocked and heartbroken over how 315 went down, I have really returned to that belief. I wouldn’t say I have faith, but I DO have hope. I will continue to hope through 322, and if I’m wrong, I’m prepared to deal with that. But I just don’t think that’s the case. I don’t think A&E have tossed the show they’ve dreamed over for a decade & built over 2.5 years. I don’t.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Fanfic is a definite possibility, if the show does not fix this.
Re the casting spoiler, it’s also rectify able because the Wizard is the man behind the curtain. Who they see as the wizard on their first trip to the Emerald City (floating head) and the trip after they have melted WWW (man behind curtain) are not the same.
I agree wholeheartedly on them not trying to close the door. They have left PLENTY of loopholes; the true question is, did they leave them knowing they were going to use them in the immediate future, or as an insurance policy down the road?
Also… this might be the time to mention they killed off half of a previous ship from poisoned pancakes (can’t make that up) – she died in a hospital, with her TL holding her hand. Couple of years later, she was back on the scene, very much alive. Dead is NEVER truly dead on TV.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Forgive me ahead of time – this is a long ramble. It is undoubtedly infuriatingly optimistic (I am pissed at myself, trust me!) but it is what it is. If you need to mourn and let go, which I totally get, it may be wise to skip this post. I can’t promise flow or cohesiveness, just thoughts.
So I finally came out of my funk yesterday and started thinking critically. And I have decided my answer is just: no. This is not right, and I don’t accept it. I mean that probably makes me crazy… but denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, right? For me – not saying for anyone else, just for me – saying, “A&E are idiots” is taking the easy way out. They… aren’t. I have spent the last three weeks watching every episode, every *moment* of this show, from the Pilot. I have watched it filtered through two lenses; the lens of the WWW storyline and the lens of SF. We know both were planned since the pilot – it is written all over that episode, the flying monkeys in the book, the 3263757 SF things. I know I keep referencing this and going back to it, but it just – no. You don’t throw that away in one episode. Network or no, fanbase or no. You don’t.
I have crack theory, except honestly, I don’t think it’s so crack. I don’t think there are any spoilers in here, it’s just speculation based on what we’ve seen on the show. Primarily the theory rests on Whale being the Wizard. I know I’m not the first with this theory but I’m pretty married to it. Why –
1) In 2×05 there are multiple references to it – Jefferson says, “…I know the man who can do what you want… bring back the dead. He’s, um, you might say…a wizard. I…I can bring him to you.” Regina then references him as a “wizard” three separate times.
2) In the MGM film, the Wizard gives the Lion/Tin Man/Scarecrow a medal, a watch, and a diploma. In 2×10, the scenes with Whale (Frankenstein) and his brother revolve around the brother’s medal of bravery, and the gifts from the father – the watch to the brother and the commission to Whale. Granted the commission is not a diploma, but the manner in which it is presented I think in context it is a reasonable substitute. At least IMO.
3) He is from the land without color. In the MGM film, again, the Kansas scenes are B&W (actually sepia, but that’s neither here nor there,) and then Oz is of course in technicolor. The Wizard is from Kansas, himself, and gets transported to Oz where he becomes the Wizard.
So, okay. If we roll with Whale = Wizard, then let’s continue looking at the film, or rather, the end of the film, and juxtipose it with what we have seen in the last ep with our beloved SF.
3×15 was… crap. It was a way to get Neal off of our screens *as quickly as possible,* and the how/why didn’t seem to matter. That… sucks. A&E were adamant it was for story reasons. We are all, WTF, no it’s not. But perhaps it IS for story reasons. When you look at the larger WoO story, it can be generalized this way. Dorothy is home, but gets knocked out in the storm, and goes off to Oz, where she has adventures. We traditionally see the story from the perspective of Dorothy. But if you look at it from the perspective of her family (ie, the oft-mentioned Aunt Em & Uncle Henry – btw did you know that Henry was played by a guy named Charley? Learned that today, convenient…) they have Dorothy, injured and her future uncertain. No, she’s not dead, but IIRC they are concerned she might die. In order to have Dorothy return home to her family, she has to leave – you can’t realize “there’s no place like home” if you’ve never left it. Yes, I am STILL stuck on the idea that Neal = Dorothy, because it’s just too… exact. (Roomie points out I should add in, as a reminder, the mention he makes of ruby slippers as a portal in 3×03 and Regina’s commentary on Emma following him down “the evil munchkin’s dirt road” in 3×06… both pretty clear Dorothy references) So in order to bring “Dorothy” home, obviously, Neal has to be resurrected. Who do we know who has an interest in resurrecting the dead? Oh, hi, FrankenWhale!
Here is where my cracktheory gets shippy (and maybe a little cracky too, roll with me here.) In the film, Dorothy & friends go to the Wizard for the things they lack. The Wizard gives them symbols of those things – because he cannot give them the things – they are things they already possess. This is true of the three, but then, he needs to transport Dorothy back home, yes? Once his balloon leaves without her, though, Dorothy learns she has what she needs all along – click heels in triplicate and “There’s no place like home.” So, to crackship it into our fanbase, if the crew approaches the Wizard for resurrection, it’s not something he can do… it’s something that is already there all along. (BTW we also have that photo of Josh Dallas in the barn with the symbol on the ground, that would lend credence to the idea of attempting a resurrection.)
Also, A&E have been all about the “Regina and Emma are the same” idea lately. It’s… odd… and seems to come out of nowhere. But then it dawned on me – Regina went to Whale/Frankenstein to resurrect Daniel. Yeah, that didn’t go well, and is sure not what I’d want for NealFire!! But it’s still interesting to note, just a random, passing thought…
My roommate is particularly hung up on the lack of TLK. It’s so glaring to her, she says, because it’s not something you would think to do – it would just be automatic. I agree with her, I mean, it was with Henry and the sleeping curse. That scene is so preposterous because a) it should have been instinctual, and even if it wasn’t, b) Emma should have thought to try TLK, because, hello, she’s used it before and it’s worked! But even if it didn’t cross her mind, why on earth would Rumple not say, “There’s no magic that can save him. The only possible thing I could even think to try would be TLK.” We know Rumple believes they have it; he’s said as much to each of them over the past year. And even if he thought they just “carried a torch,” not had TL, wouldn’t it be worth a TRY to save his beloved Bae?! But, no.
It can’t be that it’s because this is the price of the dark curse, because see here, Regina said to Belle, ABOUT THE DARK ONE CURSE, “sounds like a curse to me, and all curses can be broken. A kiss born of true love would do it.” Belle verifies, “And a kiss — a kiss is enough? He’d be a man again?” to which Regina replies, “An ordinary man. True love’s kiss will break any curse.”
It is SUCH a glaring omission. I mean, the logical explanation is, well, they couldn’t have TLK because if they did he would survive, and they wanted him dead. Except, like with everything else, there are a million and ten loopholes around that. Why not have her kiss him and nothing happen? They could write it as they weren’t TL (convenient if they are killing him off to go CS,) they could easily write it as ambiguous about whether it was TLK or not, but TLK breaks curses and this wasn’t the curse but rather the price of magic. But no. No TLK when it was exactly what the scene was begging for. It’s a huge, glaring omission, not in a shippy way, but in a “plot of the show since the Pilot” way. S1 begins with Snow & Charming’s TLK and ends with Emma & Henry’s. WHY WOULD YOU NOT TRY A TLK. I hypothesize that it was left out intentionally, because they needed to save it for a later date.
So, to go back to Oz – what would it be that is there all along? A TLK of course.
The theory isn’t entirely refined, but I think there’s enough there that it is reasonably viable. In fact, I think I’d like to hypothesize, Whale as the Wizard and Neal as Dorothy is almost certainly the original A&E plan. Has that been changed? Perhaps. But maybe not, and maybe all of this sucktitude is actually integral to the story. I think, for the moment, that I’m going to hang onto this theory… and if it doesn’t play out by the end of the season, then okay. (It’s crack theory version two – I like it better than crack theory version 1, which I called FlyingMonkeyGate, ha ha.)
There is also a portion of Oz folklore whereby Glinda kisses Dorothy as a form of protection – I was thinking it was part of her going back to Kansas but I can’t find evidence of it anywhere. The only thing I can find is from the books, that Glinda kisses Dorothy as a form of protection, but I swear this was in the film. Anyways, it may or may not be relevant and play into this theory.
Also, crack theory part B… those photos. Way back when Emma kissed Henry, it was TLK and broke the curse. Except, despite that the curse was broken, Storybrooke remained. What if it was some sort of layered curse, and for Storybrooke & EF to meld or… whatever… it required a *different* TLK? Could not Emma’s romantic TLK potentially cause some sort of molecular SB meltdown? (Please don’t read this as me calling a romantic TLK more valuable than a parental one, there’s no value judgement here – just musing and speculation!)
So… yeah. Maybe some of this will be erased with 3×16, maybe she’ll try a TLK with him in the coffin (hey, it worked for her parents) and that piece of the theory won’t be relevant. But it’s where my thoughts are right now, and honestly, it accounts for the awfulness of 3×15, IMO, much better than “A&E have lost their marbles.” These guys have laid out 2.5 seasons of layered, excellent story, and it seems more likely to me
Why troll the fanbase? Honestly, ANY admission that Neal is alive would raise questions. No one ever said MRJ left the show; on the contrary, lots has been implied but little has been said. The only absolute statement that has been said is, “Neal is dead,” which may be true, if they plan to bring him back. I mean, Henry flatlined, but that was “technically” just a sleeping curse – so what is “dead” in the fairytale world? It seems quite different than dead in our world. The last word given on the situation in the TVLine article is as follows – TV Line asks if this is the last we’ve seen of MRJ this season and Eddy replies, “Oh, you never know…!” That’s a far, far cry from “dead is dead and he’s gone forever,” and in A&E speak, it reads to me like, “Uh no. He’ll be back.” Yes, that COULD be flashbacks or whatever, but also, it could be to complete the story that has been laid out since the very beginning.
My name is dontstopbelievin, that’s my crack theory, and I’m stickin’ to it. The screenname is not for nothing, these rose-colored shipping goggles have been welded on, so I might as well take advantage!
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
^I am totally on board with the theory of Bae returning, so they can legitimately say it’s not Neal. That’s crack theory #1… Maybe I’ll post in detail sometime. Right now I’m rolling with crack theory #2, which I will post as soon as my roomie finishes proofreading it lol.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
