Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I wanted to talk about the whole “good form” concept, because I recently got around to reading the actual Peter Pan book and, I don’t know if this is/was common knowledge to everyone else, but Hook’s obsession with it comes straight from the book. In the book his last words are an accusation of “bad form!” directed at Pan, haha. One mention of it in the book though that I think particularly applies to OUAT Hook/Killian: “Good form! However much he may have degenerated, he still knew that this is all that really matters.” I think that bit carries over into the show…he mentions good form several times in a way that almost seems to justify the actions that others would most likely consider bad form (not to mention crimes), like commandeering a Navy ship and becoming a pirate.
Oh that’s interesting, I read that final ‘bad form’ as being directed at himself. Hook had just been having that inner discussion about whether he or Pan were good or bad form. And came to the conclusion he had bad form for wanting to have good form (he had concluded Pan had good form) So for Hook to want to be sent to the crocodile was a confirmation of his own bad form. (sorry, a bit confusing with all the ‘forms’)
To answer the other questions:
1/ Hook won’t ever completely lose the Hook persona. It’s a part of him and it’s also the part of him that survives. Even Pan was impressed by that trait. He’s a survivor, no matter what he’s been put through and even when he welcomed death it never came. He aligned himself with whoever would get him what he wanted, and also with whoever would help him survive – ie conversation before the beanstalk “you four are much safer company” So even though he is aligned with the good guys now, I wouldn’t be surprised if he perhaps did something a little shady in the future to survive or to save someone. So he may not be ‘evil’ anymore (and I’ll debate that he actually was evil) and is Hook-lite, but Cpt Jones is still a pirate and is a very different entity to Lt Jones and he’ll never completely revert to the doe-eyed innocent sailor.2/ I would say his fatal flaw is his quick temper. Deciding things and not thinking about the consequences. That is what seems to get him into trouble. Liam died, he didn’t process that very well. Instead of going to the admiralty (as he had planned to do with Liam) to call out the King’s cowardice, he decided to throw it all away and become a pirate. As you do. With the death of Milah it was all ‘Right, I’m going to kill this guy, I don’t care how long it takes, let’s go to another Land (without a way to get back!) so we can live forever and work it out’ As you do.
3/ Well, similar to the book I would say, he wants to have good form, saying things like ‘I’m always a gentleman’ to prove he has. But in wanting to have ‘good form’ proves that he doesn’t. He knows he’s done bad things and his conscience is really tripping him up on that lately – re sacrificing Eric for the JR. Where previously he would kill, shrug his shoulders and not care (ie, Claude ‘I didn’t recognise him without my hook in his neck) So perhaps he hasn’t always had good form (except when he was Lt Jones) but 3B is showing he is capable of it.
And there obviously are lines of good form/bad form for him. When he was trying to ‘win’ Emma’s heart, he said he believed in good form, ie, he wouldn’t cheat, play tricks etc. However when playing with Henry he’s got loaded dice in order to win. So when playing a game when the stakes aren’t high or it’s not very serious (they were only playing for chips) it’s perfectly fine to cheat, but when it comes down to serious matter, playing with people’s emotions and the like he obviously want to make a fair fight of it then. Hence me thinking that he can still be a little shady if he needs be.
[adrotate group="5"]If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Nice promo!! And may I say: Ioan Gruffudd!! Very excited.
LOL @ RHOS!! Trying not to laugh too hard, people at work will think I’m strange. 😀
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
I agree that I believe Henry won’t be too much of a hindrance to CS. He got on pretty well with Killian during 3B. (I know he didn’t have his memories and didn’t know who Hook was, but I don’t think that matters so much. Killian didn’t treat Henry any different) Since Henry and Killian have their own bond without Emma it would make Henry more excepting of Killian in Emma’s life. It’s not like Emma has been seeing some guy and then has to introduce him to Henry later on and hoping/expecting Henry to be okay with the new person in her life. And Henry wants his mum to be happy and if Killian makes her happy, he’ll be okay with it. Also, in the finale Killian was pretty much glued to Emma’s side at Granny’s. Henry’s a smart kid, he’ll work out what’s going on. 😉
I don’t think Snow would be an obstacle either. Charming obviously knows what “Charles” did and what he would do for his princess. I would hope Charming has a little word in Snow’s ear about that. I think they’re going to see Killian in a totally different light after the finale/in S4
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Haha, can I just say it is so true about the scruff! Hook’s the guy you want to experience that ‘fun’ he mentioned to Emma in NL with and Colin…you just want to hand a cookie and let him be on his way.
Hee speak for yourself, I’d hand him a cookie and see if I could corrupt the innocent boy… did I say that out loud? 😉
we’ve talked about Hook’s wardrobe before but now that CS is canon I keep thinking about it and wonder what others’ opinions are…do you think they’re going to change the wardrobe this season? If so, what do you think Hook/Killy would dress like? Do you think Emma will have to push it or will he want to change his look to fit in with the rest of SB?
In my headcanon I have Emma encouraging him to change his clothes, only b/c I assume Hook’s been in those leathers for so long he probably doesn’t really care what he wears.
I’d like him to change his leather vest and pants to get him out of the all black, but keep his coat. I love that coat. It’s stunning and the more I see of it the more things I love about it. Hook’s never been cursed (in the Dark Curse sense) so it would be nice to keep some aspect of his fairy tale costume. Or they could put him in a modern version of what he wore in the finale – he does look good in long jackets. Either way. 🙂 But give him a small wardrobe change (or at least a couple of options so he’s not stuck in the same thing all the time) so it’s a visual reminder of how far his character has come on his journey.
Just a little aside, whatever happened to his black vest he wore in his first ep? That was really nice. I miss that look. Or was that just the “Killian Jones” vest and the “Captain Hook” vest was the red one?If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Ohh that’s really quite beautiful 🙂 I just want to give him a hug now.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Common word down my way too, but never knew where it came from. That’s really cool! I love finding out about stuff like that. 😀
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Indeed, stroppy does cover Neal in that scene. “She’s got me now” Such a petulant line. I had wondered whether on Neverland you revert to your teenage self, cos that’s definitely how both Hook and Neal were acting. At least Hook dressed it up as being noble. Hook knew exactly what he was doing when he told Neal about the kiss. “Well this is awkward” my foot, he wanted Neal to squirm. 😉
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
What if the EF is like a continent/island, separated from the likes of Agrabah by ocean? So Regina’s curse would’ve covered the EF but not the entire world. So Hook could sail out of range, Ariel and Eric would be out of range. etc.
The partial map in Skin Deep showed there was an ocean, and the safe haven was by the coast.
Yes 😀 That’s how I see it. The “-Lands” are each their own world, the “Realms” are continents and the “Kingdoms” are like countries.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
I always understood the Enchanted Forest to be the fairytale land…. I thought the terms Fairytale Land and Enchanted Forest were synonymous…. But am I wrong? O.o is the enchanted forest just one place inside the Fairytale World? And the curse only effected that one place? Again, that would mean alot of stuff would have to be retconned. Snow and Charming could have literally fled to Agrabah to escape Regina’s curse if that is the case.
That’s how I imagine it. As I said, I could be wrong. But I assumed when Eric (and Hook) say that they were going to sail the realms, they’re still within FairyTale Land and the EF is just one realm within that.
Again, I assumed (and I am making a lot of assumptions here) that Snow and Charming didn’t know how far the first curse would go (and to me it seems Agrabah is a very long way away) They wouldn’t know to flee to another realm, b/c they thought it would affect *everywhere*, when in fact it obviously didn’t. Zelena said Eric and Ariel were outside the curse’s reach for Dark Curse Mk II, so who’s to say there weren’t areas (apart from Coradome) that the curse didn’t get to the first time.1.) But if Agrabah is I’m the EF, there shouldn’t be beans there. Regina said there was a wall placed between the two worlds, and no portals would be in the EF for them to get back to Our Land (including beans) 2.) We don’t know if anyone from Agrabah was taken or not. But seeing as we were SUPPOSED to see Aladdin in the second season (right?) I assume they were. 3.) Was Rapunzel not taken? I assumed she was in the tower when the curse was enacted, got taken to SB, and then when Regina brought everyone back, Rapunzel got dumped back where she was: In the tower. I could be wrong though. And 4.) Regina said her curse brought who she wanted. It reached into other lands and pulled out whomever she wanted and thats how she got Whale into SB as well as Jefferson who was in Wonderland at the time (according to OUATinWL)
After the curse struck the “walls were down” and magically there were beans? I don’t get that either. There’s either beans or not, but I guess there were none left in the EF (and I’m still reading EF as only part of FTL and the only part affected by the curse)
True, there are a lot of characters that could have been taken to SB and we just didn’t hear about their story, but then that doesn’t fit with my theory 😉 and I’m not sure about the Aladdin thing, I didn’t realise he was supposed to be in S2.Well if there were other pirates, we wouldn’t know. They wouldn’t look all pirate-ish. They’d be normal average SB people. Personally, I always assumed most of the fishermen and sailors in SB (like the one Cora turned into a fish) were pirates.
Good point. I just assumed that once the curse broke in S2 all the bad guys/pirates would go back to being bad guys/pirating and Hook may have used that to his advantage in S2. And I got the impression b/c Blackbeard managed to get to the Jolly Roger before Hook that BB wasn’t taken by the curse (I’m not sure why I assumed that)
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
I’m going to throw my two cents into the curse/lands/realms/heart discussions. This is how I resolve them to work in my head: (I hope it makes some sort of sense)
To me the Enchanted Forest is only one realm within FairyTale Land. Other realms within FTL would include and not limited to: Sherwood, Agrabah, Camelot, Hangman’s Island etc. So these are accessible to the EF folk without the need of a portal. Sherwood seems to border the EF quite closely.
I assume the Enchanted Forest is quite a big realm (the largest) and within it there are many kingdoms/principalities. George’s, Midas’s, Philora’s, etc..
Outside FTL there are the other lands – Neverland, Wonderland, Land without Colour, Land without Magic, Oz, etc which a portal is required to get to.So if the curse *only* effected the Enchanted Forest, people in the other realms within FTL weren’t taken (there’s a hole in this and I’ll get to it). So for Hook to outrun the curse, he sailed his ship beyond the borders of what is designated “Enchanted Forest” into another realm – into ‘international waters’ as it were. (I’m going to assume he went to Agrabah to get a bean, it seems like a good place for trade). And if the curse only effects the EF, that would explain why no-one from Agrabah, Camelot, Sherwood etc got taken – aside from the Sheriff of Nottingham who I assume was in the EF when the curse stuck. This can explain how Rapunzel wasn’t taken from the Tower as she was within the boundaries of Sherwood.
The only problem with this theory is that is doesn’t explain Dr Whale. How was he the only one taken by the curse from a different Land? No-one else he knew from his world came to SB (that I know of) Did Regina bring him or was he in the EF again for some reason?So with the curse being so specifically written by Rumpelstiltskin (the saviour, the 28 years, etc) I also assume that he wrote in (or it was a price of the magic) that any realm or land that borders the Enchanted Forest (or at least a land/realm governed by magic) will also be affected, but instead of being ripped from their land, time stopped. Neverland doesn’t count in this as there is no time in NL to stop. So NL was still chugging away while the rest of the magical lands were frozen. Which can explain the Darling brothers trying to adopt Henry during the time SB is in its Groundhog Day phase and how Bae could have escaped NL and be the proper age now. Cos if he was 14 in NL he didn’t escape from Neverland 28 years ago, since he met Emma when he was 25(?) which is only 10 years where Emma was born 16/17 years ago. (Anyway I digress)
So while in the EF Cora needed to create her dome to shield her and Hook and this extended to at least cover Philora’s kingdom. I assume Sherwood wasn’t involved in the dome since Robin Hood wasn’t with Philora and the survivors. He and his Merry Men were living it up at the Dark One’s place. (Hence why I believe Sherwood was exempt from the curse) Now since it was the first time the Dark Curse was cast, I am assuming that no-one knew the full extent of what would happen, hence Hook and Cora not outrunning the first curse with the Jolly Roger – they didn’t know if they could, but Cora wanted to be sure that they would survive the 28 years. But with the second time Dark Curse casting the extent of the curse’s boundaries were known and Hook knew he could outrun it.
Also there were no other pirates from FTL that ended up in SB, that shows that there were some places within FTL that the curse didn’t reach. If they weren’t in the EF, they were travelling to other realms, or out in the sea where the curse didn’t reach. They couldn’t have *all* been under the Coradome.
Onto the heart – my theory is that the ‘heart’ that is ripped out of the chest is a representation of what a human heart is. The source of love and lifeforce, which if we know our biology we know that all that stuff actually comes from the brain. When it come down to it, the heart is just a muscle that pumps blood around our body, we attribute feelings to it because it’s more romantic. When Graham tells Emma he believes he doesn’t have his heart, Emma can still feel his heartbeat in his chest. So he obviously still has something that is keeping him alive. So I believe when a ‘heart’ is ripped out, they’re not ripping out the actual heart, but what we believe the heart represents. So crushing the heart destroys the love and hope and life of the heart and without those we cannot live (hence people dying). So when Snow splits her heart with David, it’s her love she is splitting to help David’s actual heart to keep living.
I am sure there is lots of stuff I’ve missed out but this is how my brain deals with all the confusion. 🙂
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
