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I was so excited to see those pics and tweets – how cute are the pair of them 🙂

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ems14 wrote: Love triangles are awful but TVD has to top the poll of worst/most crushing love triangle ever for me personally. God help us if the CSF triangle ever reaches even half of what the TVD one has.

I googled the TVD one before, and on the show’s Wikia, there’s actually a whole section for the Love Triangles, and there’s 4 of them, and 2 of them involve the same 2 guys just with a different girl in each triangle, and it just made me wanna *HEADDESK* before even reading about them individually. LOL

*whispers* And the 2 guys are actually brothers. They make the CaptainFire bro ship look normal. But seriously that show and it’s triangle destroyed one of favorite couples ever so I hope and pray Adam and Eddy will know when enough is enough with CSF because OUAT/the show is so much bigger than that.

ems14 wrote: This is such a perfect observation. Intentional or not, you can’t help but notice all the Snowing/SF parallels

I agree. The first post on our first page, Slurpeez has sketched out all the parallels between the two (and Rumbelle also) and even though I tend to think each couple is their own unique story, it’s easy to see a lot of the Snowing/SF ones.

A lot of the couples on the show do have common ground. As much as I do love the parallels, I agree that each individual couple has their own unique aspects. I think the Snowing/SF ones as particularly obvious though especially after 3×10. Shipper goggles aside the Snow/Emma parallels were anything but subtle in that episode and I don’t think the Neal/date and Charming/baby aspect was coincidental either.

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PriceofMagic wrote: I was thinking about the CaptainSwanFire triangle and about love triangles in general and in every triangle involving two guys and a girl, there is always the “nice guy” and the “bad boy”. In the case of CSF, Hook is the “bad boy” and Neal is the “nice guy”.

It’s a total trope. I’ve got a friend who is just a casual viewer, and she got caught up on S3 recently and then tweeted about CS and I joked, “I dunno if we can be friends any more.” She laughed and said she just always sides with the bad boy in a love triangle, (she also loves a love triangle, TVD is her fave show which I haven’t seen, but I understand that show does a love triangle like WHOA).

Love triangles are awful but TVD has to top the poll of worst/most crushing love triangle ever for me personally.  God help us if the CSF triangle ever reaches even half of what the TVD one has.

Phee wrote: ALL of what Schmacky said, but this is an important point IMO. She claimed in the bar that she kept the swan pendant to remind her to never trust anyone again, (an obvious lie), and then a few days later she was trusting him to take Henry back to NYC with him for safe keeping.

Emma was trusting him even before that! She trusted him to go on a family outing to pizza and a museum. She trusted him to sail the JR to SB with Rumple, whom she knew she had to save because he was family now. She trusted him against Cora. Less than 48 hours really and she’s Trusty McTrusterson with him.

This is so true. Emma trust Neal  implicitly almost immediately in Manhattan and it hasn’t wavered since that. She trusted that he had her back with the Tamara situation and with the Save Henry mission in Neverland. And like you both said she trusted him with the most important thing to her, Henry, and really that says it all.

What was that quote from 304 (?): “and before I could even take a breath I lost him all over again…” Sorta reminds me of Charming and Snow’s conversation in the Red Room

David: It’s okay. You’ll get back, and then you’ll wake me as I woke you. You will always find me, and I will always find you. MMB: Yes. Will we always lose each other, too? Is that our fate? David: No. I refuse to believe that. You need to have faith… In us.

Phee wrote: Reminds me a bit of the Snowing conversation where he said they always find each other and she said that they’re always losing each other too, so maybe that’s their fate

So I totally drew the same conclusion before I read your entire paragraph…. WE ARE LIKE IN SYNCH PHEE.

This is such a perfect observation. Intentional or not, you can’t help but notice all the Snowing/SF parallels

[ems14]

Those behind the scene pictures are great – especially MRJ wearing the hook and JMo laughing 😀

[ems14]

Yes. Basically. Leave his home and everything he knows so his father can become the man he was again – nope. Instead he’s lost and his father becomes even more of a monster for the next 300 years terrorizing a hell of a lot more people. Sacrifice himself for the Darlings. Nope. They all got abducted and used by Pan anyway. Leave Emma so she can break the curse and find her parents. Nope. She lost them anyway.

Schmacky continuing to kill people on her/his site

So true. Everything Neal related is just killing me since I saw the episode. And itunes is randomly playing incredibly fitting but painful songs. More than anything, I still can’t get over that Neal has just lost another year of Henry’s life 🙁

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About to go catch up on the posts since last night but will post my thoughts first. Apologies I’ll probably end up repeating a lot of what’s already been said.

Mixed emotions after the episode really. Good SF things in the episode. Emma going to comfort Neal after Rumple died. When leaving Emma walked over to Neal. She included him in the important group with her parents of people to say oodbye too. She was happy to walk off without saying a word to Hook. It was him who stopped her and when he said not a day would go bye without him thinking of her – her reply ‘good’. I mean if she had feelings for him that would have been a perfect time for a ‘me too’ or something to that effect.

As for the SF scene the hug was incredible sweet and emotional. The scene was everything it could be at that moment. Neal focusing on the fact that Emma had to get Henry out of there, Emma being the one to initiate the hug…God it really hits me in the feels that Neal lost his father, Henry and Emma all in one day. Poor Neal really needs a hug. The ‘This isn’t over. I’ll see both of you again’ line (similar to Belle/Rumbelle) was the absolute best, it’s not over for them. I did find the Regina/Emma and Emma/Snow forehead kiss scenes to have slightly more emotional impact than the rest of the goodbye probably solely due to Emma knowing at that point that her memories would be gone. It’d interesting to wonder if that would have put a different spin on the SF goodbye scene.

The Rumple scene about Neal getting his second chance at happiness was another important one. Rumple recognising Emma and Henry as Neal’s happiness.

Slightly O/T but the Hook/Tink flashback scene had an insane amount of chemistry. I still maintain that I don’t wish this version of Hook on any woman but that scene was smoking. I so enjoy that Hook scene too, unsurprisingly because it was the 1st one in god knows how many episode that there was no mention of Emma Swan. Of course that was wiped away with a quick jolt as we went back to present day Tink/Hook with a heavy-handed/unnecessary/awkwardly insert Emma mention. This episode pretty much esablished that Hook’s storyline revolves around Emma and nothing else and his purpose outside that is limited. If/When CS plays to a logical conclusion what the hell do the writers plan to do with Hook (because personally I do love me some Colin O’Donoghue).

And the last scene, Emma ending up in New York, the song, not of that can be coincidental at all.

Now the interesting part is wondering how Neal fits into cursed memories Emma’s life. In any world he’s Henry’s father and I assume in Emma’s mind events happened in a similar manner with Emma seeing Neal as a bad guy. I’m certain this is part of the reason Hook is undertaking the save Emma mission. Also when Hook said Emma’s family were in danger, I’m certain Neal was included in that.

As for the promo, yay for the dreamcatcher. Love the idea that it could act as a type of tailsman/emotional touchstone for Emma. And going on that last scene and the swift kick to Hook’s special area, I’m probably not the only one who get’s a perverse sense of joy and entertainment of the idea of Hook running around New York harassing Emma and her knocking him back at every opportunity

 

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Just catching up on all the wonderful discussion but yay for Neal’s official poster being released. It’s long overdue! Interesting to speculate whether the timing means something but regardless I’m happy to finally get it.

I am LOVING all the pretty things posted recently even though I haven’t gotten to see all of them quite yet. You’ve made this day a very happy SwanFire birthday for me!!!

Happy birthday to you 🙂

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If they’re gonna shut this triangle business down emphatically, they have to make it obvious why she doesn’t choose the guy who she doesn’t choose, and Hook’s actions are so seriously inapropriate, that I’m thinking (hoping) that’s what the writers are up to at the moment. Write him out of the running, then write Emma slowly but surely opening up to Neal again without the threat of Hook lurking over their shoulders, and have that losing out on Emma be Hook’s rock bottom that slowly but surely inspires some actual change and good form in him in the future. So with that in mind, I’m cautiously optimistic that there might be a method to the madness.

This would be the perfect way for it all to happen. I don’t think anyone is interested in having this love triangle play out over a long time because in general no one character ends up coming out of that situation well. Neal and Emma have plenty of storyline and angst to play out and prolong their happy ending. The Hook element of a triangle isn’t really necessary to stir up drama for them.

If this has been, posted sorry! But I think it should be here. Our very own Lunatiger made a great response to the Hook/Tink situation in 310. I’ll link it and you can read it yourself. Just saying Hook

This sums the whole thing up perfectly to me.

I love the new curse theories too. If anything along those lines happened, it would be great.

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I just saw a thing on tumblr which is an excellent point that relates to this topic…

Emma (On the verge of tears): Yes, Neal just died, but I lost him years ago. All that time thinking that he didn’t love me only to find out that he did, and it was too late. I can’t even tell him how angry that makes me. Or how much it hurt when he left, or how terrified I was when he came back, because I knew the moment I saw him, I never—I never stopped loving him. Now I don’t know but if my daughter said this to me and I found out the guy she was referring to was still alive, I’d probably move heaven and earth to get them back together.

http://glorifiedgleek.tumblr.com/post/69500202025/emma-on-the-verge-of-tears-yes-neal-just-died Is it really any wonder that Snowing got it in their heads that it would be a good, healthy thing for Emma to go on a date with Neal?

I think this perfectly explains the Snowing point of view on Emma and Neal.

angiebelle wrote: I don’t like the triangle either! It’s so nice to be among people who are in agreement with me…I start to feel dumb because I don’t entirely disagree with the point of the opposing side, but want so much for Neal to end up with Emma that I get defensive! One woman I was talking to said she didn’t understand at all what people see in Neal and Emma.

Ah, you can always come here, Angie. I’ve totally been there, I’ve seen people diss Neal and it’s made me so mad I actually started physically shaking. Then I’m all, “He’s just a fictional character,” but then I’m all, “But that means he can’t defend himself, so when I see people being ignorant about him, someone has to stand up for his side, his views, his emotions.” I know that all characters have their detractors, and by no means should everyone like the same characters, it just seems sometimes like people go out of their way to put Neal down and even demonise him, and ignore actual canon facts in an effort to do so. Call a character out on what we actually see them do, but don’t go inventing stuff just so you can talk bad about them. And really, Neal hasn’t done a whole lotta evil stuff, and has done a fair bit of good stuff, so I really am just baffled sometimes by how people can dislike him so much, and/or not see the good in him. *sigh*

It’s so tough not to get defensive. There’s a lot of irrational hatred for Neal out there which, obviously as a fan, is so hard to understand. I don’t think Neal is perfect but when people are twisting the facts/making stuff up as a reason to diss his character it becomes frustrating.

As for the promo, I won’t lie, I wasn’t happy to see the CS moment but it was like 1 second of 30 second promo which has been edited. The actual context of the scene might not be half as bad.

If this curse does separate people/wipe their memories I would actually venture that there’s a chance we’ll get a good, emotional Swanfire moment in the next ep,  if they think they are going to be ripped apart again (similarly to the portal scene).  Especially since it seems like 3×12 will be very CS heavy. I think it’s possible SF and CS will both get some kind of moment for fan to analyse over the hiatus

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I’ll say this here because it’s safer than saying it anywhere else, but unless they do some serious redemption to Hook’s character (and do it very soon), I don’t think he’s going to last beyond S3 because he literally has no purpose on the show right now other than to be one part of the Triangle of Doom and I fear for Adam & Eddy’s lives if something bad ends up happening to him later this season. They could literally take him off the show right now though and the show would still keep going just fine because he’s become that insignificant to the overall story. I would hate for the Hook fans to have to deal with something like that but seriously, what else does he have to do now but pursue Emma?

I’ve actually think about Hook’s purpose on this show a lot lately too. I was so excited when I heard about Colin being cast and Hook coming on to the show. And I think he worked well last season, for what he was a villain. But this grey area he’s in at the moment is really doing him no favours. In trying to push the CS side of the triangle, Hook as a character himself is totally getting lost. Not only that but they’re passing up opportunity to flesh out relationships he could have like with Neal and Tink. Neal and Emma both have plenty of storyline potential outside of their romantic relationship but at the moment CS is the only thing making Hook relevant, when is the last time Hook had a conversation or interaction not related to Emma and I mean that seriously.

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