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1. The children were given clear instructions by Regina: TOUCH NOTHING! Again…Regina probably kidnapped Hansel and Gretel’s father after they agreed to work for her, and probably would have reunited them had they not been so rude and disrespectful to her. Again, Regina didn’t push those children into the Witch’s House….Regina didn’t kill children! We have no proof that Regina ever killed a child….and knowing her character who had a very soft spot for children, the most she’d probably punish them is a week in the dungeons. But again…the children had a choice that they could’ve said no to, but instead they willingly accepted Regina’s offer.
Firstly…what RG said. She knew full well that the odds were slim that they’d succeed because she had sent so many other children in there before! She clearly didn’t care. Secondly, you should rewatch True North–she abducted their father in order to capture them and force them to get the apple. We know that because (a) we heard their father cry out just before the children couldn’t find him and (b) we see him at the end talking to Regina; he didn’t abandon his children so she had to have abducted him before forcing the children to do her bidding.
Are you really going to claim that there were no children in that entire village that she had murdered? That makes no sense. And here’s a screenshot of the village before she did that, and there are at least two (older) children:
Also, we know full well that she intended to kill Emma as a newborn.
And what about all of the other terrible things she’s done to children? Orphaning them, abusing them, tearing apart their families? No way does she have a “soft spot” for children.
2.Regina has taken responsibility for her past which is why she’s constantly reminding herself that she’s a villain. She knows what she did, she was there! She’s owned up to it, but the more she tries to move on and redeem herself, everyone keeps pushing her back into the Villain category! Regina and Rumple are two people who are being drowned by their past, because the people around them won’t let them up for air.
What evidence is there that she’s taken responsibility? She complains about other people seeing her as a villain, but has she ever sincerely apologized or expressed remorse? No, she tells Snow that she was a brat and calls her fat when she’s pregnant.
3. And once again…how much work will it take for Regina to redeem herself? Where does the road end! Where is the finish line! Because after all she’s done…she’s redeemed herself and more. 4. The people of Storybrooke will always wave the villain sign, and talk about her and Rumple behind their backs. Many people will cheer at their persistence, but secretly pray for their decline! Storybrooke isn’t Anti-Hero friendly…you’re either 100% goody two shoe like those sneaky Charmings, or you’re nothing but dirt beneath their feet. That’s how Storybrooke feels! 5. Regina or Rumple could sacrifice their lives again for Storybrooke, and die the next day, and only be remembered in light heart by their fans and the Charmings, however those who are against them(such as Storybrooke and other Oncers) will dismiss any good deed they’ve done, and say…”they got what they deserved”. They are not given a fair chance if people keep throwing the past in their faces. And if Regina and Henry succeeds, God I hope they do, Regina can write herself a new story with a much happier ending. And not just her…she can give the villains their own happy ending….all Rumple was his son and love, all Cora used to want is money, but before she died she realized love is more important. And I think deep down…all Zelena wanted was Cora’s love. Chances of this happening is zero to none, but the point is….if Regina rewrites history and gives every villain what they wanted….everyone ends up happening. Because so many lives could have been spared had Bae not encountered the Blue Fairy, Johnathan not lied to Cora, and Snow not telling Regina’s secret.
There is no “finish line”. I personally would say that expressing remorse and apologizing is probably a good first step.
[adrotate group="5"]Note: This post ended up being way longer than I expected…sorry about that! 😛
Oh yeah, and @Epona….just read your comment on the last page so here, watch the scene! “It Was Prophesied!”
To get this out of the way first, I guess my interpretation of that was that it was prophesied that Regina and Robin were soul mates, but not necessarily that they would definitely end up together. Like if they did they’d definitely be happy, but not that it would absolutely happen. But I can definitely see what you mean too.
Oh…yes! What Regina has done, and what she was willing to do has made up for that! It’s Oncers who have such a high expectation line such as Regina having to die over and over, makes it seem like there is nothing she can do to ever make up for what she has done! If self sacrifice won’t do it…then what’s the point in redemption anyway? Might as well go out with a bang if people will always bring up the past, and never look at the many great deeds you’ve done to try and make up for it.
I didn’t say I thought she had to die over and over, I was just pointing out that the idea that Regina has paid for her crimes “an eye for an eye” was simply not true. I also said that that’s not a good way to go about expecting justice anyway–I think most of the characters would be dead by now if that were the standard! 🙂
The moments where Regina was willing to sacrifice her own life to save the very people she cursed/terrorized should have been where the line of redemption was halfway met! However, the moment Regina sacrificed her happy ending to save the very people she cursed/terrorized, was when the road to redemption to Evil Regals was completed! She’s paid for her sins in more ways than ANY one else!
Yes, I think that part at the end of season two was her best moment; however, she was only in that position because she had retrieved and planned to activate the failsafe (taking Henry and leaving everyone else to die). She got herself into that mess. And when she let Henry go in 311, it was because that was the only way to save everyone–including herself–from Pan’s new version of the curse. She didn’t choose to make a sacrifice; that “price” was again the consequence of her having cast the curse in the first place.
Also, I take issue with the idea that she’s paid for her crimes more than anyone else–Rumplestiltskin lost his son after all, and Regina still has hers. (Although apparently that’s not good enough anymore.)
So yes…Regina made up for the massacre…which as far as we know until shown otherwise, could have been her only one. Also….For the last time….Regina didn’t bind the children up and shove them in the Witch’s House!!! She gave them an option that they could’ve said NO to. Because believe it or not, Regina never killed children, hence why we don’t see any in that Massacre photo! Regina offered the children something they couldn’t refuse because if they had, they’d be alive today. And before anyone bring up Hansel and Gretel…nine times out of ten, Regina would have released the children had they politely declined her offer, but nooo….Gretel and Hansel had to mouth off and call Regina a “monster” after she gave them one of the highest rewarding offers. She may would have even given their father had they just asked for that, while politely declining her offer. Had those children shown any form of respect, and in a polite manner…they wouldn’t have landed where they did!
Okay, now I have lots of problems with this statement…first of all, if your defense for having massacred an entire village is “that was the only one”, well, that’s not much of a defense. And just because you don’t see any children’s bodies (which I imagine would get rid of the show’s PG rating) doesn’t mean there aren’t any–there had to have been some children in the village (and in fact we see some at the beginning of the episode) and her exact words to her black knights were “Kill them all. No mercy.” Oh, and she had every intention of murdering newborn Emma; she only failed because of the wardrobe. (“Well, it looks like getting rid of a baby just made my to-do list,” ep 309.)
And as for the Blind Witch and all of the children’s bones–you said that Regina “didn’t bind them up and shove them in the witch’s house”. No, but she might as well have. She kidnapped Hansel and Gretel’s father, and would’ve had them all killed if they didn’t go in after the apple–she said as much when they ran from her and she said that was foolish but brave “and that bravery may just have saved you and your family’s lives”. Then she said she’d only “find” their father (in her dungeons…) if they did her a favor. And then instead of actually keeping her promise (a pattern with her), she sends the children and their father to separate areas of the woods when they choose family over her material rewards.
She also says “you aren’t the first boy or girl I’ve sent into that sticky sweet house, but you are the first to emerge.” She’s pulled this coerce-children-into-the-cannibal’s-house stunt many times before, and she knows full well what happens to them if they fail (we saw her watching in her mirror). Oh, and in Storybrooke, she was perfectly willing to send Hansel and Gretel to Boston with Emma when she knew full well that “bad things happen” when you try to leave the cursed town and that they and Emma could’ve been hurt or killed.
Also, just as Keb said above, she’s done a whole lot of harm to children besides the actual killing, such as separating them from their families. And the children who have actually been in her care–Snow and Henry–she used her power to hurt them as well. She hurt Snow in too many ways to count, and emotionally abused Henry by gaslighting him through the whole first season (oh, and trying to kill his biological mother, resulting in his near-death).
And by the way…an eye for an eye did happen to Regina, as just as she took away true loves, mother, father, siblings….her own mother, father, sibling, true love taken away twice, and now her soulmate was taken from her, not to mention she suffered being hated by her only son, So yeah…Regina paid the price for her sins! And like Ruby said….the Dark Curse took away more bad memories than good for some people, and Regina did some people a favor…hence everyone loves Storybrooke.
For some things…but for the murders, a murderer would have to be killed. She may have paid for some things, but in the strictest sense, no “an-eye-for-an-eye” price has been paid for the rest of her many crimes. And let’s see, Keb already covered why it’s not the same that her family dies since she either tried to or did kill them herself. And when was she ever hated by Henry?! Personally I think he has every reason to hate her, but he clearly doesn’t. Even at the beginning of season two, he begs Emma not to let her get killed by the mob. Even walking in on her literally in the process of strangling his grandfather (after his mother and grandmother were pulled into a portal saving Regina from the wraith) doesn’t make him hate her.
But here’s the main problem I have–Regina doesn’t regret any of it! “I did cast a curse that devastated an entire population. I have tortured and murdered. I’ve done some terrible things. I should be overflowing with regret, but I’m not…because it got me my son.” She’s admittedly done all of these terrible things, but because it ended well for her, she isn’t even remotely sorry! She shows no contrition for anything; she’s still cruel to everyone else. If she’d truly changed, she’d be sorry for what she’s done. Have we seen her apologize to Snow for having tried to kill her for years, and then taking her child away from her? Have we ever seen her apologize to Emma for making her grow up miserable and alone, and then murdering the first person she connected with in years? How about Hansel and Gretel, or Jefferson and Grace–has she apologized for ripping apart their families, before and after the curse? We did see her apologize to Belle, but that was only because she needed her help.
Her whole interaction with Snow in “Bleeding Through” exemplifies that. First, when Snow apologizes (again) for having killed Cora, Regina does acknowledge that Cora “did kill your mother”, but she says nothing about what should’ve been the other elephant in the room: that Regina killed Snow’s father, and she never apologized for that! Also worth noting here is what Snow says about killing Cora: “I don’t take it lightly. I think about it every day”. That’s what someone who’s actually sorry would say (and that was for killing someone to defend her whole family). And then at the end of the episode, when Snow mentions having been “such a brat”…well, (a) it looked like her mother had gotten rid of the worst of her brattiness before she died, and (b) yes, children can be brats–but the adults in their lives are supposed to teach and correct them, not make them orphans and then spend the next 30+ years trying to end or destroy their lives. If she’d really changed and felt any remorse, surely Regina would’ve said something like “No, it’s not your fault. I was supposed to be your stepmother, to take care of you. There’s no excuse at all for what I did to you and your family, and I’m sorry.” But nope, she just nods and smiles–no acknowledgement that she is the one who’s in the wrong.
So no, I don’t think Regina is entitled to or has earned anything more than what she has. In fact, she should be thanking her lucky stars that the Charmings are such forgiving people that they not only didn’t kill her for what she’s done in the past or jail her in the present, but they’ve also taken great pains to make her happy. Honestly, it kills me to see Emma so concerned about Regina after all of the terrible things she’s done to her and her loved ones. Regina really should be THRILLED with how things are now–she’s not dead or in jail, she has Henry back in her life–but it’s not enough so she’s scheming about how to force some mysterious author to give her what she “deserves”. I’m sorry, but if she got what she actually deserved, I don’t think she’d be too happy.
I feel like I should share this here. It’s been going around Tumblr a lot recently; it’s a really good rebuttal to that whole “CS-is-rape-culture” accusation. It is quite long, but it’s excellent and even cites actual sources.
Now back to your regularly scheduled CS awesomeness…just three more days till a new episode! 😀
Regina lost not only her true love a second time, her mother was killed, her sister was killed, she had to give her son up more times than I can count, sacrificed her own happy ending to save the people she cursed, then lost her soul mate, her very last chance at happiness! The Villains have PAID their dues! An eye for an eye, well all of that is paid now….Storybrooke has seen them suffer for their sins! Now it’s the time to cut print and move on! Villains deserve their chance at happiness, since they’ve clearly paid a heavy price for their wrong.
Wait, really? You think everything is settled in terms of “an eye for an eye”? While I don’t think that that’s the right way to go about redemption or justice in the first place (to quote Gandhi, “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”), Regina would have to die many, many times over for that to be the case. I mean, you really think she’s made up for this?:
Or this? (The bones of the children she sent in to get the apple from the blind witch):
I could go on, obviously, but those are, as far as I recall, the largest death tolls she’s wrought in terms of sheer numbers. “An eye for an eye” would entail her being murdered as payment for every murder she’s committed, so it’s really not even close there.
Okay, I had a couple more paragraphs here, but I got rid of them because that’s the crux of what I’m saying. I just don’t know how you can make up for all of that (and so much more), I guess.
No….I’m saying Regina intervened with what Fate was going to fix for her….Regina was in the wrong place at wrong time…had she not been there, Fate would have fixed itself. But the “Good” Regina spared Marian’s life by saving her….I think that makes up for her killing her originally. But Beware Marian, because Fate is gonna be “Final Destination” for you.
“Fate” is an excuse invoked by those who who choose to do the easy or the selfish thing instead of the hard work of changing things. Emma would be a very poor heroine indeed if she had followed that prescription.
It was prophesied….even Tinkerbelle declared it as being Destiny! So it is Fate! And screwing with Fate comes with dire consequences…consequences that Emma Swan did not care to think about before jumping to play superwoman! Consequences that Regina is going to have to yet again pay for because of Emma’s careless mistake!
That makes no sense…how is Regina saving Marian from Marshmallow not “cheating fate” if Emma saving Marian from Regina is? Why would Regina just have been “in the wrong place at the wrong time” when Emma made a “careless mistake”? And how can anyone say for sure that it wasn’t fate that Marian be reunited with her family?
Also, perhaps Regina kinda destroyed that “destiny” (OQ) when she chickened out and didn’t go into the tavern to meet Robin the first time. Maybe if she’d gone in, they were supposed to be together but she didn’t, and now she has to live with the consequences. Are they still destined to be together after Regina chose not to go in? (I think they will be just because that seems to be how the show works, but theoretically…) And Tinker Bell said he was her happy ending…I don’t remember her saying anything about their being destined to be together, no matter what. Just that he would’ve made Regina happy. In Neverland, she told Regina that by not going inside, she ruined not only her life, but Robin’s too. She didn’t say “Well you’ll just have to meet up later, now that you’ve had his wife murdered.”
And I think Regina’s earned her hero title….does Storybrooke appreciate her for it? Do the Charmings acknowledge it? No! They automatically assume that Emma did it….nothing peeved me off more than when Hook told Emma that “she defeated Zelena”….like really? Any good deeds Regina has done were swept under the rug, concealed from public view….and the ones that the public do see, they give one clap and move on. With that type of support, I can’t blame Regina for regressing back into old habits because after everything she’s done, it’s never enough….and as long as Storybrooke remains “Hero Only, Screw Reforming Or Not Villains,” It never will be.
So you really think one or two good things are enough to make up for ALL of the terrible stuff she’s done? Stuff that she outright said she doesn’t even regret? It seems that in Regina’s mind only other people have to deal with the consequences of their actions…
Also–and this applies to all the “villains”, not just Regina–wouldn’t the “happy endings” of those people whose loved ones had been murdered include seeing their killers brought to justice? Like I said before, I agree with what @PriceofMagic said earlier–it just doesn’t seem possible for everyone to have a happy ending at the same time.
I thought he said that purely in terms of her reaction there and then. He said his piece, then she pretty much turned around and ignored him. He obviously wanted to talk about last night’s events, but she didn’t, hence the “are you avoiding me?” And she (I assume) had given him the check out the mausoleum job to avoid ‘the talk’ too. That’s my take on it anyway
Hmm, I like that interpretation much better! 😀 I’ll definitely keep that one in mind when I rewatch this episode, which I will have to do soon since I was interrupted at like 8:55, much to my chagrin. Okay, so I probably would’ve rewatched it anyway but that’s not the point…
Everyone having happy endings is impossible. Emma made Regina an impossible promise because one person’s happy ending can easily contradict with another person’s happy ending.
For example, Regina’s happy ending is with Robin but so is Marian’s.
What Emma meant was the happy endings of everyone but the peasants. WHY DOES NOBODY THINK OF THE PEASANTS!
Those were pretty much my immediate thoughts during that scene as well…I had more to say, but for the sake of avoiding an argument I’ll just leave it at that. 😉
I guess one of the problems is the timing…like, I watched the finale again less than a week ago, and I know that on the show it’s supposed to be the next day, so it seemed weird for him to be all “are you avoiding me?” when it’s been less than 24 hours. However, if I were a casual viewer, it would have been over four months since I saw the finale, so I don’t think I’d feel the same way. I was following the cast on Twitter too though and seeing Jen say that that was her favorite part of the episode made me happy, haha.
And I’m also really curious to see those Emma flashbacks and find out what else is holding her back from being in a relationship, since I remember that “something” being mentioned several times. I’m very much looking forward to more Emma backstory! Overall I very much enjoyed most of the premiere though (except for Regina driving me crazy) and I so can’t wait till the next episode! 🙂
Oh, and I too completely cracked up when I read about “warlord Bo Peep” coming up–I can’t imagine what they’ll do with that! I keep picturing the one in Toy Story…
Hmm. I have to say, my immediate impression on a CS level is that Hook was a little…whiny? this episode. The kiss was cute of course–and I liked that yet again, Emma was the one doing the kissing–but I think my issue might have been that it all felt a bit rushed. Probably to fit the Frozen stuff in, and I can’t really complain because I have to say I enjoyed that anyway. I’ll have to rewatch later…I mean, we were kinda spoiled by last season’s finale as far as screen time! 😉
I’m intrigued by the preview for next week too…how can Emma be getting frozen already? I mean I fully expected someone to get frozen at some point, but you know, closer to the end. I’m guessing Elsa herself will unfreeze Emma pretty quickly though since we know she’s not going to be a villain, and then maybe the actual Snow Queen will freeze someone later and they’ll be in real danger.
