Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
Epona_610
ParticipantDipping my toe briefly into the CaptainSwan ship, Hook was a pirate for some 300 years and I’m going to assume it was not sunshine and rainbows. Does he owe it to Emma to explain his past, even his most recent past like killing Blackbeard to get the Jolly Roger back, even though Ariel was counting on Hook’s help? What kind of lies are okay to tell your significant other? Is total honesty more morally responsible? And if Hook never fesses up, do we approve of a relationship that hasn’t been perfectly honest with one another?
I’ve thought about that too, and also had that issue with the other relationships involving the “reformed villains” (Rumbelle and OQ). Do their partners actually know about all of the terrible things they’ve done? Do they have a right to know, or does it not matter because that isn’t who they are anymore (so they say)?
Does Robin know, for instance, that Regina had an entire village–men, women, and children–put to death because of her obsession with Snow? And even leaving aside all of the many other horrible things that these guys have done, I think someone’s current/potential romantic partner has a right to know if that someone has murdered romantic partners before–Leopold and Graham for Regina, and Milah (and one could argue indirectly Cora) for Rumple. I know I wouldn’t want to be involved with someone who had a history of murdering his/her past spouses or lovers when they upset him/her! I don’t think that sends a great message about relationships.
[adrotate group="5"]Epona_610
ParticipantSorry, accidentally double posted…oops!
Epona_610
ParticipantI was just thinking about the Dark Hollow scene from Nl, when Emma shouts Hook instead of Neal, it’s interesting how Emma chooses to panic more over what’s happening to Hook than Neal in that moment (this is a moment I wish we had duel shippers here, so we could get the other side of the coin), since it’s only been a couple of weeks since Neal ‘died’, but it does IMO, hint at how much she wanted to move forward in that short period of time & her level of trust in Hook, that I think if she had to choose, she’d have picked Hook…. maybe that moment of realisation, was a big part of the deciding factors that allowed her to say “Good” at the town line. Thoughts?
Yeah, that was a big indicator for me which way the wind was blowing, so to speak (especially coming after the previous episode’s “I still love you but you hurt me so badly I kinda wish you were dead” to Neal). In a moment of panic, her first instinct was to worry about Hook. (And then for me, I pretty much knew the deal was sealed when he was the one to find her in the midseason finale.)
This reminds me of a short post I saw on Tumblr the other day:
Do you ever just cry because Emma was willing to let Neal die so they can have their best chance of defeating Zelena but she gave up the only chance she thought she had to defeat Zelena to save Killian?
I mean it’s a little harsh (and no, I don’t just cry randomly about OUAT, lol), but pretty much true. Honestly though I should probably have given up on Tumblr by now…sometimes I swear these haters are watching a completely different show! Of course then I’ll come across little gems like the above and other various essays and gif sets and I change my mind. 🙂
Epona_610
ParticipantDo you think Emma and Hook might keep their relationship secret, or rather Hook wants to tell everyone but Emma would prefer to keep it private for a little while?
I’ve wondered about that as well…Maybe if Emma’s going to start pulling back a little, she’ll want to keep it under wraps for a bit because that might make it seem less “real”, if that makes any sense?
My question is, isn’t it a bit late for that? I mean, they were kissing pretty seriously right out in the open in front of Granny’s with almost the whole of Storybrooke inside. It’s a little late to try to keep it secret, haha.
Epona_610
ParticipantRegarding Snow, I’ve never found it too surprising that she was more of a Neal fan since her experience is that first love is true love, and so of course the fairytale happy ending has to be her daughter ending up with with her first (and thereby automatically true) love, and doubly so because he was Henry’s father. (Surely you don’t have children with anyone who’s not your true love!) Heck, she probably expected Emma to go join the convent with the fairies since Neal died. So she probably didn’t think Emma would have a problem with naming her brother after him because she assumed Emma would be mourning Neal for the rest of her days anyway.
But yeah, since they said Snow and Charming were going to be “supportive”, I’m guessing any of that conflict will either not be a big deal at all or will be resolved quickly. I just hope the baby gets a nickname really soon!
I also very much agree with missing the “old” Snow, personality-wise. Hopefully we’ll see her come back soon. 🙂
Epona_610
ParticipantFirst off, yes, definitely just a friendly disagreement! Especially because I really don’t think any of the characters see it as an issue anymore since Henry really is old enough to determine what he wants, within reason, and they all want what’s best for him. I actually quite like looking at it this way hypothetically: what would happen if they really were going to abide strictly by our legal system and nothing else?
And yes, I do think that Regina created a paper trail for Emma and Henry at the end of 3A, because we know they had a normal life in NYC for a year. He had to have had records for that, and they couldn’t have been from Storybrooke because for that year, it didn’t exist (whether it exists to the outside world before and after that year is debatable). So, paper trail and records of Emma being Henry’s mother, as well as witnesses from outside Storybrooke of Emma and Henry being a family that has always been together. And in the face of that, if there were any other documents indicating that Emma had signed her rights away, it would certainly look like those were the false documents since they wouldn’t be supported by any evidence while the others would. Like PoM said above, Regina had to give up the thing she loved most; she gave Henry up and had been resigned to never seeing him again and the two of them integrated seamlessly into a normal life in NYC.
And for what we’ll actually see in the show…I don’t see why he couldn’t switch off weeks; that seems to be the simplest solution. Then they could go from there, maybe changing things up depending on what else was happening. That way they’d both have equal time with him. And they could all come together for holidays or something. 🙂
Epona_610
ParticipantUmmmmmmm……whew….ok! Here’s the kicker to that, what Regina created was Storybrooke! When she transported everyone back to the EF, yes SB disappeared. But Storybrooke was originally sealed within the Dark Curse, and was then resealed back into the Dark Curse. When the Dark Curse was recast, the SAME Storybrooke appeared, with everything back as it was. All the events that occurred in SB, remains there. SO all of those documents are still in Storybrooke, SO Regina still has legal rights to Henry!
And to further add onto this….Emma still has NO legal rights to Henry! She signed over ALL parental rights, so in the eyes of the law, she is a stranger to Henry Mills!
I’m sorry, but what proof is there for any of that? There were plenty of new people who weren’t in Storybrooke the first time. Clearly the curse changed, or Aurora, Zelena, and whoever else wouldn’t have come through–or if they had, they would’ve been homeless since we saw in season one that there weren’t any empty homes or apartments in the original Storybrooke. And the adoption documents weren’t ever part of the curse; Rumple had those drawn up later. So why would they magically come back even if everything else that was part of the creation of Storybrooke did? Also worth noting–it’s not as though Regina wrote the curse herself; Rumple did and she just cast it. Snow cast the one that created the current Storybrooke.
And none of that negates the fact that due to their new lives and new memories, at the very least there would be two sets of legal paperwork for Henry, just like he and Emma have two sets of memories. If you’re so sure Regina’s paperwork was perfect and 100% legit for the first Storybrooke, then it stands to reason that it would be for Henry and Emma’s new life as well.
There are lots of other issues that would come into play as well from an ethics standpoint, but from a purely legal (and purely hypothetical) standpoint? Either Regina has no legal right to Henry (likely since the entire existence of the first Storybrooke was negated) or there are at least two (perfectly legitimate according to your theory) sets of records for Henry.
Also, how on earth is any of this Henry’s fault? He’s one of the most innocent victims in this whole mess.
Editing to add: Sorry for re-stating what RG and PoM had already said above…I started writing before either of them had posted; it took me a while to finish!
Epona_610
ParticipantFor the record, like I’ve said both times before, I do agree that in the show Henry will most likely split his time (probably pretty much equally) between both of his mothers, because from what we’ve seen, that’s what he wants and he’s old enough to have a say in his own life. Henry has forgiven Regina for what she’s done to him and others, just like everyone seems to have pretty much forgiven everyone else for their various horrible past crimes; it’s not exactly realistic, but it is a TV show.
However, this hypothetical argument is quite fun, so with the full understanding that none of this will come up in the actual show…
II.
Emma: Your honor…this woman is the Evil Queen who cursed every fairy tale character to Storybrooke! She magically crushed the heart of the former Sheriff of Storybrooke! And poisoned my son with a sleeping cursed Apple Turnover! Cursed Belle with amnesia, and used her as bait for Rumpelstilskin! (Rumple would be tied into the Kathryn situation/tampering evidence, so I’m sure he’s going to make sure that doesn’t come up, plus…he owes Regina because she did come up with that ulterior Pan situation that could have worked, not to mention she saved him from both Pan and Zelena control. Greg and Tamara are dead, so NO ONE knows about the whole Owen Situation.)
Yes, a lot of it would be difficult to prove (although if Emma or someone proved by demonstration that magic was real in Storybrooke, then it would be a lot easier to make the case. And I’m sure there’s some kind of truth serum; put Regina under that and see what she says!). However, regarding Kurt, Hook knew that Greg wanted to find his father and since no one ever did see him, it wouldn’t be much of a leap to assume that Regina had murdered him. And there’s a body. I bet Ruby could sniff it out. And one murder count is enough to put someone away for life. And as for attempted murder, Dr. Whale, Emma, and Henry could testify as to that experience. And I could go on.
But honestly all of that doesn’t even matter, because here’s the kicker: the original Storybrooke Regina created was destroyed when Pan re-cast the curse. Gone, as though it had never existed, even in Henry and Emma’s memories. It never existed, so in the current state of affairs, there would never have been any record of Regina having legally adopted Henry. Instead, there would be paper trails and proof of Emma having raised Henry since he was a baby. And since Henry wasn’t part of the most recent curse (the one that re-created Storybrooke), there wouldn’t have been any new fake records for him either. So when you take that into account, it’s Regina who, in the current situation, has no legal rights to Henry whatsoever.
Epona_610
ParticipantNot all of Regina’s crimes happened in the EF. She still killed Graham and admitted it, plus she admitted to trying to poison Emma and ended poisoning her son. Ya know. The son she adopted. Just bringing up that alone could get Henry taken away. Oh, and she killed Owen’s dad. And confessed that too. So even without bringing magic into it, if they wanted to make a case against Regina they’ve got plenty to choose from
Exactly–maybe you missed my original post, but I specified just crimes committed in our world. Murder (Graham, Kurt), attempted murder (Henry, Emma, David), abduction and wrongful imprisonment (Belle, Kathryn, Sydney Glass), and I forgot to say it earlier but also major obstruction of justice for tampering with all of the evidence in Kathryn’s “murder”. Oh, and trespassing and breaking and entering (to hide false evidence in Mary Margaret’s apartment), and stealing (the jewelry box from her apartment too). And those are just concrete things (and just the ones I thought of off the top of my head); there’s also the emotional abuse she inflicted on Henry throughout the whole first season and probably farther back.
Now like I said before, since this clearly ISN’T based on our world’s laws and it’s a fantasy TV show, I think Henry should spend as much time with Regina as he wants; apparently he’s forgiven her. It’s just that it makes no sense to go by our laws for one thing and not the others.
Epona_610
ParticipantIn regard to Neal, I have to say, re-watching S2 during the hiatus…it’s been tough to watch. I guess because I’m watching much more closely, but I cannot believe when he laughs at her, or belittles her or talks down to her.
Agreed! I’m part of the way through a re-watch as well, and I find myself liking Neal less and less as time goes by. (Of course a bit of that is probably due to some of the ridiculous and hateful things coming from his fans, but there’s plenty of other reasons from the show.) And what I was referring to earlier about wondering whether others got the same vibe I did was about how he just seemed to revel in what he believed was her jealousy of Tamara…just another instance of his being patronizing and condescending and just, ugh. Just because she was actually a child when Neal met her (and got her pregnant) doesn’t mean she hasn’t grown up; she had to do so really fast after what he did to her, so treating her like a child is really just adding insult to injury.
And I also don’t know for sure if Emma really told anyone exactly what Neal (and August) did to her. We know Henry knows because she “told” him in their false memories, but beyond that I either don’t know or don’t remember. But I do wonder if Snow would’ve still pushed Emma toward Neal if she’d known that he had sent her to jail for his crime and while she was pregnant, no less. Come to think of it, we really need more clarification about who knows what regarding a lot of things on this show…
-
AuthorPosts