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Okay, I was going to say something about how interesting the whole alien-hand-syndrome/curse theory would be, and then I saw that new EW snippet. It looks like Rumple and Killian definitely won’t be getting along (at least for a while), which as I said I’m fine with, and maybe even prefer. But then the writer adds “Let’s just hope Hook doesn’t steal another one of his wives”. Seriously? Women are not property that can just be “stolen”!
I’m sick of people acting like Rumple is the victim here, and I really hope it doesn’t come across that way on the show either. Was he wronged in that whole situation too? Of course–he shouldn’t have been left with the impression that his wife had been abducted by a bunch of pirates. But what he did was much, much worse.
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Regina has so much to be held accountable for yet it seems all her misdeeds get swept beneath the rug so if Rumple suffers, Regina should suffer too!
I hope Hook isn’t blackmailing Rumple since Rumple is one of my favourites and I only really started liking Hook in 3B and don’t want him to backslide into Season 2 Hook territory.
What I think would be more interesting is if Hook was trying to help Rumple dealing with the blackmail. Hook may figure out that, because of the fake dagger, Rumple actually had the means to kill Zelena. I don’t see Hook being upset that Zelena is dead. She cursed him and threatened Henry and Emma and was a risk to everybody. I want to see Hook trying to help Rumple and Rumple gives Hook his hand back as thanks. If Hook at least tries to help Rumple, I would love him even more.
I agree, I would love to see the two working together than one blackmailing the other. Blackmailing your enemy is so cliche. But the S3 finale showed that Robert & Colin have some excellent chemistry – I would love to see them very begrudgingly working together. With lots of snark and sass. I think they’ll realize fairly on they’re going to have to – for Henry’s sake. I think both men are going to show they want to be in Henry’s life (and no, not because Killian wants to get in his mother’s pants, because he actually wants to know Henry – yeesh! Thought I’d toss in some anti-Hook gibber gabber). And Henry is exactly the kind of person that would encourage them to work together. Heck, Henry’s the kind of kid that would set up some kind of situation to force them to work together!
First of all, I agree that Regina should have to deal with the “consequences” (to use the word that she throws around at everyone else) of her past terrible actions too! At least she has apologized to Belle and acknowledged that she was wrong. But the thing that everyone (especially Snow!) seems to forget is that she had King Leopold murdered. Snow apologized to Regina over and over for killing her mother, but I didn’t hear any apologies from Regina to Snow for having killed her father.
And I think Rumple’s murder of Milah is in the same category. I don’t expect to see Rumple apologizing to Killian or anything, but I’d see it as more reasonable and/or realistic that the two could at least reluctantly work together if it seemed like Rumple at least realized that he was in the wrong and expressed some semblance of remorse for having murdered his wife because she dared to leave him after he made her life miserable.
I don’t really expect either of those two grievances to be settled at this point in the story, but the lack of acknowledgement or remorse from both of them for their specific respective actions when they live in close proximity to those most hurt by those actions just bugs me.
I definitely agree that scenes with them are a lot of fun though, so I’m looking forward to seeing what’s going on there regardless. 🙂
Gold has so much to be held accountable for that he could be making amends for the rest of his unnatural life!
Agreed, and because of that, I wouldn’t be too bothered if that whole blackmailing spoiler turns out to be true. I just don’t know how he’d find out…surely Rumple would be more careful with the dagger (and Belle with what she thinks is the real dagger)!
And random theory: Since we do know that Henry will be hanging around Rumple’s shop, I’m wondering if maybe Rumple will try to turn Henry against Killian somehow, either saying stuff outright or with subtle little hints about how bad a guy he is. I’d like to see how Henry, Emma, and Killian himself would react to that.
Gah I can’t wait till the premiere! At least I have my S3 blu-rays on the way and I’ve managed to do a better job avoiding spoilers for special features there than I have for S4 in general. (Okay, so I haven’t actually tried to avoid those spoilers, but that’s not the point…)
I wanted to add something to the ship thing, not only was the JR valuable to Hook, sentimentally, but also in terms of currency to actually manage to get a bean with it. The JR is well sought after. Blackbeard wasn’t going to give her back. She’s made from enchanted wood – I can imagine that’s quite valuable these days since the Blue Fairy used the last enchanted tree for the wardrobe. She’s the fastest vessel in all the realms. And wouldn’t have been called the Jewel of the Realm for nothing. So in terms of being something with an actual value it’s lucky Hook had her, otherwise I don’t think he would have got a bean so easily. As sentimentally valuable as a chipped cup or a swan pendant are they would never be able to be traded as a useful commodity. One bean for something as valuable and useful as the JR seems like a very cheap trade to me. He could have traded that ship for absolutely anything, but all he needed was a bean so that’s all he wanted for her. Virtually three lifetimes worth of memories, a home, something with an actual tangible value all traded away for a glimmer of hope.
Perfectly said, I couldnt agree more, I wanted to make a similar point, but dont need to now- you said it so much better than I could have. It’s simply convenient for haters to forget the facts in favor of their septic head cannons. They are in reality watching the same show, but their insistence on twisting the show to meet their head cannons morph the story into a totally different one from cannon.
I was literally just about to post something exactly like that too! I’ll just quick add that it’s also like giving up your house and car—your most valuable assets—and your means to make a living (perhaps not a legitimate living, but that’s a different discussion) for something that, once used, has no lasting monetary value. That’s kind of a big deal.
I also agree with you guys on the whole Neal thing, especially that it’s super awkward that they named their baby after him. I hope they come up with a nickname or something.
Hello @lady! It’s a great time to be a CS fangirl. 😀
So I haven’t turned my computer on for a few days (I mean, I had my iPad and smartphone, but I hate typing too much on those); I missed some fun conversations! I’ve kinda been thinking about the whole overreacting-to-fictional-character-deaths thing myself, and what comes to mind for me is Game of Thrones. I mean…I was really sad and ticked off at the deaths of several major characters in that infamous episode of season three. But I neither stopped watching the show nor did I bash the author or showrunners. (In fact, that pushed me to read the books so I’d know which characters I shouldn’t get attached to in future seasons!) Of course it’s fine to be upset over fictional deaths, but like so many of you have said, it’s the hatred and bile being thrown at actual, non-fictional people that’s just…can I say bad form? 😉
And mini-rant here because it was bugging me… I’m rewatching S3 with my parents (who had the whole season stored on the DVR and only recently started catching up) and we just watched “Think Lovely Thoughts”. After all of this recent reflection and analysis, I was even angrier than before at Rumple’s comment about having been poisoned with dreamshade by a “cowardly pirate” and I just very much wanted Hook to say “Oh I’m the cowardly one? Remind me, which of us literally ripped out the heart of a woman he once claimed to love—who also happened to be the mother of his son–because she left him after he made her completely miserable and refused to lift a finger to try to improve his family’s lives?” I just keep hoping that the possible hand-returning thing isn’t going to be some sort of cuddly reconciliation between those two. Obviously I think they’ll both keep things civil for the sake of Emma, Belle, and Henry, but personally I’d hate to see anything more; it would just seem so…I don’t know, unrealistic? Anti-climactic? Something. I mean, Rumple’s never even acknowledged that he was in the wrong.
And @Jenna_B, I’m really curious as to what we’ll learn about Emma early on in this season as well! I do think the theory that she showed signs of magic as a young child and freaked out her various foster families seems quite likely, particularly with the Frozen stuff. Or I guess it could be something darker, like some kind of specific awful incident from her childhood? (Maybe what precipitated her running away?) Or maybe another guy who almost got through to her and hurt her nearly as badly as Neal did? I don’t think it can be too terrible since it’s a PG-rated show, but I’m anxious to find out!
Ooh, that was a really fun essay CallmeLola. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Also I’m glad that I’m not the only one who’s not sure exactly who knows what re: the Rumple-Milah-Hook saga. I’d love to see that discussed, but I agree with Jenna_B that if they were going to do that, it probably would’ve been before Nealfire died. I guess I just feel like the whole thing was never really settled…I don’t remember Rumple ever even acknowledging that he was in the wrong there. It just kinda bothers me, I suppose.
LOL, just noticed on a totally non- Once or even TV, related forum (talking mostly Equine genetics- so about as far from OUAT as you can get), that a couple of the users must be big CS fans, as unlike everyone elses equine related avatars, a select few have CS avatars LOL! Goes to show the power of our ship- it sails across science based forums as well as fiction based ones
Okay, now I have to ask–which forum would that be? Since I have my equine avatar here on the OUAT forum and all, haha.
But yeah, I was going to post something like a day or two ago when the forum was down, but it wasn’t particularly important. I think it was mostly something about really liking that linked essay about Milah, because of reasons that I’ve already mentioned here multiple times…:-P
It did make me think of a question though…I’m going to feel stupid if this was addressed and I just missed it, but do we know if it’s common knowledge that Hook’s Milah was Rumple’s wife and Nealfire’s mother? I just rewatched “Nasty Habits” and there was an indication of that when they were in Bae’s old cave hideout and Hook said that Bae’s drawing talent came from his mother. And we obviously know Belle knows, but did the Charmings et al. just find out during another one of those (in)famous off-camera discussions?
I do get, why people assume, there was a hierarchy implied, based on their believes, but it was not what I heard, it was not said. It’s interpretation. The question was, what is the difference between true love and soulmate, it was not, is one better than the other. I have a lot more headaches with OUaT’s world building concerning their use of magic than I have with the writers probably changing handle/views on true love concept. And did they? Because who is talking, the characters on the show for one, giving their views, ideas, opinion, but we shouldn’t confuse that with the writer’s views, ideas, opinion given in interviews. And views can change, we learn.
I agree with that…I didn’t get the impression that anyone was saying that True Love and soulmates were types of relationships to be pitted against each other, with one being somehow better than the other. I guess I also see it as boiling down to differences in language, and language is often subjective. Love is an abstract concept after all, and it’s not like it has a concrete, universally accepted definition. People in real life talk about things like love and soulmates on a regular basis without having some sort of official definition; why can’t the characters do the same?
ETA: I was writing my post just as Jenna B was posting hers…so yeah, I agree with a lot of that one too! Ha 😉
Ooh, yay, someone started this thread! I just posted most of this in a different thread, but this makes more sense.
<p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 24px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.74902);”>First of all I have to say that yeah, there’s a strong possibility that they didn’t really have an answer to that question and so what they said isn’t really what they meant. In light of that, I kinda thought people were taking it a bit too seriously, to be honest. I mean, for one thing, defining soulmates as “the <em style=”box-sizing: border-box;”>idea that there’s one person for you” doesn’t sound like a very firm, law-of-magic kind of definition to me, more of an opinion thing. And in “Quite a Common Fairy”, Regina mentions finding ANOTHER soulmate during her first conversation with Tinker Bell. She clearly considered Daniel her soulmate, and apparently so is Robin. Either Regina was wrong or the whole exclusive aspect of soulmates isn’t exactly written in stone. I think True Love is still the be-all and end-all of powerful magic in the show. And surely soulmates can share True Love; I definitely don’t think they were saying that the two are mutually exclusive I (nor would that make any sense).</p>
<p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 24px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.74902);”>Here’s my new possibly crazy theory: maybe one of the important distinctions is that True Love doesn’t just happen–you have to grow to love someone–while soulmates are fixed and unchanging. Perhaps a soulmate is a kind of relationship that just exists between two people, like a parent and child or a brother and sister…and it doesn’t equate to instant, guaranteed True Love the same way blood relationships don’t; it just increases the odds and ease of developing True Love. Surely Emma and Henry didn’t have True Love as soon as they met despite having a clear blood relationship; they had to develop it. And obviously there was no True Love between Rumple and Malcolm despite being father and son, but we know for sure that Regina and Henry have parent-child True Love even without the blood tie. Maybe that also means that two people can romantically fall in True Love even if they aren’t soulmates even if it might be more difficult (and that circumstances can keep soulmates from developing True Love as well). I don’t know, that theory just kind of evolved while I was writing this, haha. I’m looking forward to this discussion! :-)</p>Fun stuff! Don’t worry; this post isn’t quite as long or nearly as rant-y as my last one. 😉
Re: anyone thinking that opening scene of S3 is remotely romantic? Wow. That scene almost made me cry, and I don’t cry very easily at TV shows (and I don’t have any kids or anything either so it wasn’t like I was connecting with it on that level). Brilliant acting on Jennifer Morrison’s part, though!
That whole True Love vs Soulmate thing…I kinda thought people were taking it a bit too seriously, to be honest. I mean, for one thing, defining soulmates as “the idea that there’s one person for you” doesn’t sound like a very firm, law-of-magic kind of definition to me, more of an opinion thing. And in “Quite a Common Fairy”, Regina mentions finding ANOTHER soulmate during her first conversation with Tinker Bell. She clearly considered Daniel her soulmate, and apparently so is Robin. Either Regina was wrong or the whole exclusive aspect of soulmates isn’t exactly written in stone. I think True Love is still the be-all and end-all of powerful magic in the show. And surely soulmates can share True Love; some people seem to think he meant that the two are mutually exclusive but I don’t think that’s what he was saying (nor would that make any sense).
Or maybe one of the important distinctions is that True Love doesn’t just happen–you have to grow to love someone–while soulmates are fixed and unchanging. Perhaps a soulmate is a kind of relationship that just exists between two people, like a parent and child or a brother and sister…and it doesn’t equate to instant, guaranteed True Love the same way blood relationships don’t; it just increases the odds and ease of developing True Love. Surely Emma and Henry didn’t have True Love as soon as they met despite having a clear blood relationship; they had to develop it. And obviously there was no True Love between Rumple and Malcolm despite being father and son, but we know for sure that Regina and Henry have parent-child True Love even without the blood tie. Maybe that also means that two people can romantically fall in True Love even if they aren’t soulmates, even if it might be more difficult. I don’t know, that theory just kind of evolved while I was writing this, haha.
ETA: And now I just noticed that someone finally started a general thread on the subject. Whoops. Perhaps I’ll just go over there and re-post those last paragraphs!
