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3) Hook often talks about living with “good form.” How does Hook define good form and do you agree with it? And has Hook lived by good form, do you think?
I wanted to talk about the whole “good form” concept, because I recently got around to reading the actual Peter Pan book and, I don’t know if this is/was common knowledge to everyone else, but Hook’s obsession with it comes straight from the book. In the book his last words are an accusation of “bad form!” directed at Pan, haha. One mention of it in the book though that I think particularly applies to OUAT Hook/Killian: “Good form! However much he may have degenerated, he still knew that this is all that really matters.” I think that bit carries over into the show…he mentions good form several times in a way that almost seems to justify the actions that others would most likely consider bad form (not to mention crimes), like commandeering a Navy ship and becoming a pirate.
Heck, maybe he decided it was “good form” to avenge a loved one’s murder, thereby justifying all of the questionable and/or awful things he did in an effort to kill Rumple. So I feel like when we first see Hook, he kind of twisted his definition of good form to suit his needs. But then I’d say that for most of season three he’s been trying to turn back around to maybe embracing a wider definition of good form since he wants to actually be a good person for Emma. Of course there was certainly some backsliding during the missing year, when he thought he’d never see her again, but in that episode we also see that he regrets those instances of “bad form”.
[adrotate group="5"]I suspect Milah wouldn’t have thought much of Killian Jones and probably hero worshipped Hook a bit, which only served to encourage the character, and her death – and Hook’s new obsession with revenge, made the character completely take the place of Killian Jones.
Milah never knew him as “Hook” though–he didn’t lose his hand and need the hook until after she was dead. So she did know and fall in love with him as Killian Jones, but I get what you’re saying since he was definitely the post-Liam pirate version. I really don’t think he took on the worst characteristics of “Hook” per se until after she was dead, though. Was he arrogant and kind of a jerk when Milah first met him and when he challenged Rumple to a duel to get her back? Definitely. And he still was when he first encountered the newly empowered Dark One as well ten years later, but when he realized what was going on he just kinda “sucked it up” if you will and turned up to face Rumple, ready to die to protect Milah. From what I can tell/remember, I don’t think he did any of the really villainous stuff until after he lost his lover and his hand.
So to answer the question, I do think he’s let the worst of Hook go; that was made clear when he turned his ship around and came back at the end of S2, and was able to have Rumple on his ship and not try to kill him. It’s hard to say how much remains of the persona now, though. I don’t think he’ll ever drop it completely; that was who he was for hundreds of years. I think the first few episodes of the upcoming season will tell a lot: whether he still dresses the same, whether anyone still calls him Captain Hook or if he’s universally known as Killian, etc.
He also tends to live on the ends of the spectrum, and spend very little time in the middle and can be very black or white. He loses his brother – so he does a total 180 and becomes a pirate. He loses Milah and spends 300 years in search of revenge.
That’s a really good way to describe it, “the ends of the spectrum”. He doesn’t seem to be great with the whole concept of moderation! As for the other stuff, I’ll have to address that later because I’m getting tired…
but i would like too see that Hook buys a little boat or yacht or something like that i don’t wanna see Hook losing the sailor side of him plus he can go romantic trips or getaways with Emma with a yacht
I agree with that…I was going to say something to that effect in my last post, but I know pretty much nothing about boats of any kind so I left that out for fear of sounding like an idiot, haha. But I think a newer ship/boat/vessel could be another fun example of Hook clashing with modern stuff.
But I sincerely hope we never lose “the helluva Captain” Hook OR his tremendously rapscallion ways. Not for Emma…not for anyone (grin)
This too. 😉
I certainly hope we haven’t seen the last of The Jolly Roger, the dramatic possibilities would be quite promising…
I hope it comes back at some point too, although I have my doubts…maybe they’ll need an enchanted ship for something. Or maybe whoever he traded it to is someone important and we’ll find out the details of that story. Maybe it was the Black Fairy! I mean, if anyone would turn up with some magic beans when there supposedly aren’t any more, it would be the elusive Black Fairy. (Okay, probably not, but she has to show up sometime!)
There is always the risk of ONCE being the Disney-fied version of *Thrones* and start killing everyone off. That is what happens when you have so much story to tell and not quite enough time to tell it with the ADD of today’s audience.
Oh goodness, I hope not; I don’t need another show where I constantly have to worry about my favorite characters getting killed off! Not that I see that happening. Although even if it did, after that lovely promo from ABC, *briefly stops typing to stare at said promo again* I’m thinking at least one of our favorite characters is safe for the time being… 😉
Again, I feel a lot of it comes down to the transition between character’s lifespan. A big thing for me is that Neal comes across as too modern compared to his kid self. You can come up with your headcanons to explain this, and I’ve heard several, but to a casual fan it’s still jarring. If we never actually SEE the transition ourselves, that’s not going to change.
YES. I never really did buy Neal and Bae as the same person, and I can’t put my finger on exactly why that is–maybe the actors just don’t look alike to me? But I definitely agree with the whole too-modern thing. I just can’t reconcile the two as being the same person. I think it might’ve gone a long way if they’d cast young versions of Nealfire and Emma for the Tallahassee flashback. I just couldn’t buy those two in their 30s as 17 and however old Nealfire was supposed to be then. And it would’ve been really cool to see stuff like young Bae first arriving in present-day America.
And I’m just going to say I agree with everyone else about the whole August-Neal conversation and why it wouldn’t have worked to have Neal just explain the situation to her and taken her to Storybrooke himself. And no, I don’t think he ever looked for her although I do think he thought about her often.
And, let’s see…I don’t think anyone really owes anyone else unconditional love. There will always be some things that are unforgivable to some people, but it clearly went a long way to know the lengths to which Rumple went to get him back and that he regretted letting him go literally the second after he’d done it. Although it does occur to me now that I would think his father having murdered his mother would be a tough thing to forgive as well, but maybe it helps that he probably hardly remembered her…?
Honestly, I can’t really come up with a clear purpose for his death either…my guess is that it had more to do with mundane things like contracts, budgets, or limited screen time (or maybe just MRJ wanting to move on?) than with storytelling. Pure speculation on my part of course, but yeah I see no obvious reason why he had to die. Maybe to give Rumple reason to have to kill Zelena so as to set up another obstacle for Rumbelle and cause her time-travel portal to open up or something, but I think those things could’ve easily been accomplished other ways.
Also on the subject of “stroppy”–I’m not sure if this is common knowledge to those of you who knew this word beforehand, but it’s also an excellent word for this discussion because of its etymology–apparently it comes from British nautical slang. Fun stuff!
(In case you were wondering: yes. Yes I am a linguistics nerd.)
Agreed–I don’t think I ever saw that “win your heart” thing as creepy or arrogant, or really anything other than adorable, haha. Although I’m still several episodes away from that one in my current summer rewatch (aka my celebration of finally having gotten around to buying the S1 and S2 Blu-Rays).
Neal was acting a bit stroppy in that scene though.
Also, thanks for the fun new word, POM! I’d never heard that one before, but I quite like it. 🙂
I think it’s because Belle saw that Rumple feels guilty for killing Milah and didn’t want to torment him more
Does he feel guilty about that? Did he say that? Or did it look like he felt guilty at some point? I really don’t remember getting that impression, but I seem to find something I’ve missed every time I rewatch an episode. 🙂
No matter how he felt though, I always did find Belle’s reaction to learning about that a bit unbelievable. I mean all she does is try to deny it a couple of times and then I don’t think we see her bring it up to Rumple at all, do we? I’d think at the very least, even if she’s able to overlook the murder part since it happened so long ago, she’d be upset about the more recent lie of omission since he apparently had told her that his wife died without mentioning that he was the one who killed her.
Yeah, I’ve always wanted a map, at least of the EF and all of its kingdoms. And I didn’t know for sure that Agrabah was in the same world as the EF; that’s interesting. I wonder if Arendelle will be like that as well, and Camelot–I could definitely see all of those lands being part of one world (Fairytale Land?).
Wonderland and Neverland seem different enough to be in different worlds entirely. The fictional vs real version of our world is one that really drives me nuts though, because that’s just plain confusing. I even forget now, which story (or stories?) takes place in fictional London?
And the heart thing…well, I’ve long given up on that making sense, haha. Magic doesn’t have to make sense, right? They did say that they’d be addressing the whole shared-heart thing at some point, so hopefully that’ll have some effect. But along that line, I can’t be the only one who’s 99% sure we’ll be seeing a heart get frozen at some point in this upcoming half-season, right? 😉
HOWEVER if the curse works more like once it gets activated it turns into a big smoke ball that runs all across the land swallowing up everyone and then passes on, then id understand how Hook could outrun it (he could have headed in a direction the curse ball hadn’t consumed yet then when the curse got there, he could have turned and went to a place it had already ravaged). Idk >> blahg
That’s an interesting thought, about kind of circling around behind it after it had already been somewhere. I never got the impression that it worked that way, but who knows? I always pictured it as a big cloud that originated from wherever the curse was cast and then spread out in all directions however far it goes, eventually maybe kind of dissipating at the edges where it stops. Obviously I don’t know for sure though.
The other thing about the curse that kinda gets to me is that I thought it was a one-time-only thing; I didn’t know it could be reused so many times to go back and forth from “our” world…that just makes it not as big a deal, IMO. I just hope that it doesn’t pop up again in season four!
