Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
So since I was away for a while, I never did get to discuss The Apprentice. Overall it was very much a mixed-feelings episode for me—as I’m sure it was for many of us CS fans! On the one hand, the date was absolutely adorable and I love that we got to see it (even if it was really short). However, the Rumple-Hook interactions bug me for several reasons:
1. I just want to acknowledge first that it was really stupid of him to try to blackmail Rumple, period. There’s no getting around that.
2. However, he shouldn’t have HAD to–he wasn’t asking for anything unreasonable! First of all he wanted Rumple to help them with the villain du jour—not asking a whole lot. And then of course he wanted the freaking BODY PART THAT WAS CUT OFF OUT OF SHEER SADISM returned to him! It’s not like he made a deal to give up his hand or anything; in fact, Rumple hacking off his hand was Rumple BREAKING a deal. Rumple was absolutely in the wrong in the first place and restoring Hook’s hand didn’t hurt Rumple at all or cost him a thing.
3. I really hope there WAS a curse on his hand. The other option just doesn’t make sense: the hand wasn’t “part of his old self” because he had the HOOK when he was committing his various misdeeds, not the hand. Secondly, I could believe it being a psychological thing except that it happened over the course of ONE evening! If they were going to go that route, it should take a while for that kind of thing to set in gradually. I mean, I’d have hated for them to have dragged this thing out any longer, but the psychological sabotage shouldn’t work that fast. Thirdly, Killian hit Will with his left hand when he’s been shown to be right-handed before. Why would he use his non-dominant hand unless it really was a curse on just the hand and not a full-on backslide?
4. Why didn’t he just cut his hand off himself when Rumple was being all difficult about removing it? The angst-lover in me actually kind of wanted to see that. It would’ve been so tragic. Was there like a super magical bond around it that couldn’t be severed? He never even tried.
5. I think it’s really weird that Rumple tipped his hand by letting Hook know that he has the hat and see what it does. Surely he could’ve realized that Hook’s probably going to end up telling Emma anyway (hopefully soon!) and he’d want to keep the hat to himself as long as possible.
6. Whatever happens, I hope he either gets the hand back permanently (which I know a lot of people have said they don’t want for various reasons—he’s no longer Captain Hook, it sends a bad message about disabilities, etc.) or that it gets destroyed somehow just so Gold doesn’t have it anymore on principle. I know I personally would be massively uncomfortable knowing that my severed limb was hanging around in the magical equivalent of formaldehyde for the sick enjoyment of the man who hacked it off after murdering someone I loved.
[adrotate group="5"]I don’t want to see Hook playing Rumple because we’ve already got Henry playing Rumple and it just seems a bit cruel that a character who does have issues with trust and honesty with others is only having their view reinforced by members of their family only using them. I’m a bit annoyed at Henry to be honest because what could have been a genuinely lovely family moment of Henry bonding with his paternal grandfather over his deceased father has now been reduced to Henry is only spending time with Rumple so that he can spy on him for Regina. I’m not keen on how the story has gone all gung-ho on the Henry/Regina relationship when previously Henry couldn’t be bothered to give Regina the time of day, now Emma, Rumple and Snowing aren’t even getting a look in. Henry and Regina needed to spend more time together, true, but not at the expense of the rest of Henry’s family.
Well in that situation, I’d have no issue with Hook playing Rumple considering what Rumple has done to him (both recently and over the years). However, I agree that I really hate having Henry spy on him for Regina! I want to hope that this is something that’s meant to show us how Regina is corrupting Henry–like maybe Henry’s desperate to keep Regina “good” (since he’s had to act more like the parent), so he’ll do whatever it takes. I just never would’ve thought Henry could sink to using his dead father to worm his way in with his grandfather under false pretenses! I mean the spying is bad enough, but using Neal that way to do it is just beyond awful.
Nothing will come from Rumple’s alteration of the security tape showing Zelena’s death. The people who saw it (Emma wasn’t there) all agreed that Zelena offed herself, there’s no reason to suspect Rumple as Belle supposedly had the dagger. It won’t come up again. If anyone would call Rumple out on it, it might be Belle, not Emma.
Aha, I forgot that Emma wasn’t there when they watched the tape! Of course–she was off with Hook trying to talk her into staying in Storybrooke. Thanks for pointing that out; it does poke a bit of a hole in that theory, lol. I’d be disappointed if it weren’t addressed somehow, but then again that wouldn’t be the first time they didn’t follow through on something like that, not by a LONG shot…
Compared to the last time Hook kept important information from her, he was sullen and moody for days. Emma noticed at least twice his change in mood. But during the last episode, he was all jovial and flirty, like there was nothing weighing him down. Also compare his mood when he first got to the station after the Rumple magic-sucking hat thing, he was quiet and upset, also pretty wary of Will who could say who punched him at anytime. The first visit to the sheriff station in the last ep Hook didn’t even care that Will was there and only engaged when Will said the thing about ‘getting in the with son’. Even then it wasn’t a worried Hook that spoke to Will, it was an annoyed Hook and annoyed for good reason, cos we obviously know Hook likes Henry (and wants to do good by him for Bae).
However with a couple spoilers I’ve read, all that could be redundant esp in regards to Rumple offering to get rid of Emma’s magic and Hook trying to stop that, that would assume Emma doesn’t know about the hat Hook perhaps was just happy b/c he’s with Emma now. I don’t know. I like to think he told her and they’re going to keep an eye on Rumple under the pretense of Hook working for him.
Ooh, I like to think that too! We see Killian just going around “working” for Gold and then we find out later that he had that arrangement with Emma all along. I very much doubt that’ll be the case though, since like you said it looks like Hook will have to rush in to tell Emma what the hat really does before she goes through with having Rumple remove her magic. But yeah I definitely did think it was weird that he wasn’t acting anything like he was when dealing with the cursed-lips fiasco.
And @Bo-Peeps, yeah I’m afraid “don’t think about it” might be the only way I can continue to watch the show and enjoy the good parts…this past episode really dampened my enthusiasm for the show; I can only hope that this week’s episode at least partially restores it. I at least think I’ll enjoy seeing some of Belle’s pre-Rumple backstory and maybe seeing her learn about the dagger? Although based on some other spoilers I wonder if that might happen a little later since it looks like she’s using the dagger in front of him so he can just pretend to follow through.
So the Hot Seat questions just came out…of particular interest to this thread would be this one:
Will Emma and Hook (Colin O’Donoghue) take their relationship to the next level this season?
Horowitz: If by next level you mean going from Netflix to Hulu Plus, possibly.
Kitsis: YesIiiiinteresting.
Of particular interest to me (Spoilered out both for possible spoilers and for those who are sick of my grumbling about Regina, for which I apologize):
Will Emma ever confront Regina (Lana Parrilla) for killing Graham (Jamie Dornan)?
Horowitz: First of all, she doesn’t know that Regina killed Graham. If you look back at season one, before Emma believed, when she talks to Henry (Jared Gilmore) about the aftermath of Graham’s death, she says what the autopsy was, which was an aneurysm. She still believes that.
Kitsis: She believed it at the time, and then things have happened.
Horowitz: She actually doesn’t know that Regina was behind it. That’s never been something that has come up. If it did, I’m sure she would take issue with it.I’m glad they mentioned it, but that was a highly unsatisfactory answer. It sounds like Emma is going to remain in the dark and this murder will just be swept under the rug like all of Regina’s many crimes. Ugh.
I don’t think Rumple will suffer any retribution for Zelena’s death. I hope he doesn’t because if he does then that makes the “heroes” very hypocritical that they pardon Regina after all her bad deeds yet punish Rumple for killing a woman who would’ve happily have caused several of them to cease to exist. It was not Regina’s place to decide to give Zelena a second chance and let her run free. Regina was such a hypocrite in Kansas, you just know if it had been Henry that died that Regina would’ve been a lot less forgiving of Zelena.
Hmm. I’m very conflicted about that–on the one hand, murder never seems to be punished, either in Storybrooke or the EF, so why should Rumple be any different? (And if he weren’t, I’d much rather see him brought to justice for Milah’s entirely unjustified murder.) And his desire to kill Zelena was quite understandable. I mean not only did she (indirectly) kill his son, but she kept him in a cage under her complete control and used and humiliated him. However, I DO have a problem with his using Belle as an unwitting alibi. Not cool.
And I’m SO with you in hating Regina’s self-righteous hypocrisy in and since that episode. Ugh. I mean we all know that I hate Regina, so that’s not exactly a surprise, haha. But she was just so smug when she proclaimed that “heroes don’t kill”. And seriously, I can make absolutely NO sense of anyone’s attitude toward Regina. I can only hope that they plan to address it at some point, but I’m 99% sure they won’t. But yeah, Regina clearly gets her own special set of rules and “ethics”, so I wouldn’t try to apply anyone’s reaction to her horrendous crimes to their reaction to anyone else’s. There’s literally no logic behind how people interact with her (none on screen anyway).
I wonder if Rumple is actually bluffing about the tape. We know he can magically change CCTV, but we didn’t see any footage of the Hook tape to prove that it wasn’t just a blank tape. How annoyed would Hook be if his one reason for keeping quiet didn’t actually exist. Consider this:
If Hook does crack and tell Emma, and Emma demands to see the tape, the fact that Hook can say Rumple did something to the tape to make it look like Hook acted alone at least casts enough doubt on Rumple for certain other events such as Zelena’s death to be looked into more closely which would just cast unnecessary hassle for Rumple.
If Rumple is all “what tape?”, even if Hook points out the tape to Emma and Emma demands to see it, and Rumple hands it over and Hook says how Rumple messed with it to make it look like Hook acted alone, if the tape is actually something like a nature documentary or something like that, then Rumple is in the clear. Even if Hook and Emma turned over Rumple’s shop/home/other hiding places, a tape that never existed can never be found.
I could see that being the case. I was thinking during that scene that Hook really should’ve asked to see the tape instead of just accepting what Rumple said. Hopefully Emma’s superpower would come into play though–but that only seems to work when it’s convenient for the plot, lol.
@POM That GIFset is hilarious! I’m pretty sure that would be their reaction to seeing that movie…
And I haven’t got a clue about the Emma reaction to the obtuse “VHS” tape blackmail angle. It is hopefully a somewhat lame set up for some emotional Emma saving Hook or Hook defeating Rumple adventures.
I actually have quite a lot to say about “The Apprentice” since I missed most of that discussion, but right now I’m on my iPad so I don’t want to get too into it yet.
But regarding the VHS tape–am I the only one who saw him alter the tape and right away thought that when that comes to light, along with the inevitable discovery that Belle has a fake dagger, Emma (or someone) will put two and two together and figure out that he’s the one who killed Zelena?
Okay, another (shorter) Regina rant ahead. After this recent episode I’m just full of frustration about the way the show is treating her. Sorry to use your post as a jumping-off point, @Jenna_B–I’m pretty sure your view is the one shared by the large majority of viewers, but I wanted to explain why I feel how I do; I had to get this out!
Do I think Emma and Regina are going to be besties – or that they should? No, definitely not. Even without the history they are two very different women. However, they still have a son that they have to co-parent, so they need to have some kind of relationship that isn’t filled with animosity – for their child’s sake. I think, given Emma’s recent experiences, she’s able to see this.
See, I personally think that the whole relationship between Regina and Henry is rather sick and that she shouldn’t be around him at all, at least not unsupervised. This has been completely ignored since then, but in the first two seasons, we see that she was an abusive mother and stepmother with a history of murdering and tormenting children (in addition to her many other crimes). I do think she loves Henry in her own twisted way, but you can definitely love someone and still abuse them, and in fact if Henry is trying really hard to please Regina and keep her from returning to her old ways (something that REALLY shouldn’t be his responsibility!) it makes sense for him to throw himself into Operation Mongoose–and that’s tempting him toward “the dark side” if you will. I mean, he wants to force the author give Regina an undeserved happy ending and he used his dead father to get in with his grandfather under false pretenses. That last thing especially was really disturbing to see.
And the other major issue I have with Emma not taking Regina to task is that this is the woman that Emma recently saw gleefully burn her mother at the stake and who just admitted to unjustly imprisoning and then enslaving a man with the intention of murdering Marian–and even though she didn’t do that, she still had no intention of letting Sidney go. I was so thrilled when he finally turned on her!
(Just so no one thinks I’m delusional, note that I really don’t think that any of that will actually be addressed; the only way I see her victims getting any justice at all is if Regina does finally turn out to be a/the major villain at the end, which I think would make complete sense and would love to see, but highly doubt will happen.)
Are you thinking Belle or Charming here? Or have I missed something lol
No, Something/someone else. I’m sending you a PM…don’t want to add to the drama unnecessarily. 😉
I really hope they don’t bring Neal back.
Me too–I really don’t like that he died without seeing more interaction with Hook and Rumple (it will always bug me that he never confronted his father about having murdered his mother), but it would be very strange to bring him back now. And they did say that whoever died in 3B was actually going to die and stay dead.
Whereas Killian didn’t have to change to have Milah’s love, they were pirates together and I think Hook would realise that Milah was his first love and not his true love.
That’s something I’ve wondered about…we had Rumple say several times in “The Crocodile” that he could see that they were True Love, and while I wouldn’t take his opinion on love as gospel, especially at that point way before Belle, we did see that each of them was willing to die to protect the other, and that seems like pretty true love to me. *Shrug* I guess it comes down to whether someone can have more than one TL in a lifetime–although really, Hook has had like four lifetimes so I could believe that he had two TLs 300 years apart, haha. Obviously I think he and Emma are TL though regardless, and I’m really hoping we see proof of that by the end of 4A. *fingers crossed*
I’m concerned about what they’re going to do with Marion. Robin has pretty much said he loves Regina. And surely he can’t stay in a loveless marriage, that’s not fair on either on them. The easily solution is to have Marion killed, but that’s just a cop out. Unless there is an awesome twist somewhere, I think they’ve painted themselves into a corner.
An easy solution would’ve been not to have Regina been the one to murder Marion originally. Now OQ just has a bad taste. I’m rooting for Marian to live and be happy but season 4 has made Robin seem like a bit of a douchebag.
I agree with both of you–I don’t see a way to have OQ end up together without Robin seeming like a jerk for ending up with the woman who killed/tried to kill his wife and Roland’s mother. Personally I’d like to see Marian end up with someone who really loves her for the awesome, principled, strong woman she is. I just really hope they don’t have her suddenly forgive Regina–if someone had imprisoned me, tortured me, and announced that she was looking forward to seeing my head on a spike, I don’t think I’d get over it too quickly. But everyone else seems to have conveniently forgotten Regina’s crimes, so I’m not gonna hold my breath.
@Epona, you’re not the only one having issues with Regina. I’ve been steadily disliking her more and more since 3B especially Kansas. As I said in chat yesterday, Regina (and Rumple) work better as neutral characters with leanings towards the good side because of Belle and Henry rather than proper heroes.
I dislike Regina’s whole attitude of “the book made me a villain” No Regina YOUR ACTIONS made you a villain, the book only documented the past. All the other characters on the show acknowledge when they’ve done a bad thing, even if they continue doing those things. Regina on the other hand takes no responsibility for her actions, she constantly blames others for every wrong thing she does. Regina in Kansas was such a mary-sue. She was irritating.
Obviously fans will stand up for their favourite characters, it’s only natural, but I think there is a difference between acknowledging the character has done something wrong yet trying to explain it away and just completely whitewashing a character’s actions which I do think some EvilRegals try and do. There is no way in hell that Hansel and Gretel had a choice. There is no way in hell Marian or that village had a choice.
Glad there are others around here who feel how I do! And I mean Hook is obviously one of my favorite characters, and I think his reasons for going evil are quite understandable, but I certainly won’t deny that he did some awful things in an effort to avenge Milah, the worst of which were to Belle. I’d like to see a real apology there, although I’m not sure how that would come about since I doubt he’ll have much time for little têtes-à-têtes with the wife of his mortal enemy.
OQ has completely screwed over Regina’s character and I’m bored of seeing Regina whining about how nothing is her fault, how everyone else is to blame, how she doesn’t get to be with a guy because Emma saved his wife from being murdered by Regina. Regina has to learn that she can’t treat people like dirt then expect them to like her. I cheered when Sidney betrayed Regina because, quite frankly, she had it coming. Yet Regina seemed surprised by it. She’s so convinced she’s life’s victim, how could anyone betray poor little Regina who hasn’t done anything wrong, she’s quite deluded.
I couldn’t get invested in OQ because of the speed it developed, a crappy “they’re meant to be together because pixie dust said so” is no substitute for the characters emotionally connecting and developing chemistry. Had the build up been slower, I would probably feel more sympathy for Regina. However, with the reveal that Regina originally murdered Marian, OQ just leaves a bad taste. It’s wrong for a murderer to be dating her victim’s husband and nothing is going to change that wrongness. I seriously question the healthiness of such a relationship.
Regina needs to suck it up, grow a pair, and own up to her mistakes. She needs to try and make amends with those she can that she’s wronged. It’s a little late for the village she had slaughtered but she can still make it up to the likes of Belle, Marian, Henry, Hansel and Gretel, Snow etc.
Yes, yes, and yes.
The scene at the end between them was kind of sweet. Emma’s hair looked nice in the ponytail. I would’ve preferred Emma to have gone through the memory box by herself then Hook comes in on the tail end rather than Hook rifling through the box. I know he had her permission but it just seemed like such a personal thing. I did see an interesting theory that because Emma is opening up about her past to Hook, she may be expecting him to do the same which is where future angst may lie for CS one way or the other.
I can kind of see how some people might’ve preferred for it to be Emma herself or Emma with her parents or Henry, but personally I’m not going to complain about getting adorable CS scenes. 🙂
I’d actually really like to know how much Emma knows about Hook’s past. I really think she does know exactly who Milah was, both from the scene in Bae’s old cave in 304 and because she’s not an idiot. I’d like explicit confirmation one way or the other though. Other than that though, I have no idea what she does and doesn’t know.
This is going to be an unpopular thought but I do agree that CS wasn’t planned from the beginning because of the rights issue. The writers may have had the idea, they may have even had a back up idea just in case they didn’t get the rights. But until they had the rights, they couldn’t really go with CS until they knew it was a certainty. Once they got the rights, they probably started playing around with it but I don’t think CS was planned when they were filming the pilot.
Obviously this is something we’ll most likely never get answers on, but personally I think that the first season was the most solidly planned out in advance, and aside from the brief thing with Graham, Emma wasn’t really supposed to have a love interest because they were developing her True Love with Henry. I do think that as of season two CS was definitely planned to some extent, for several reasons. First of all, let’s be honest: why would they cast someone that good-looking who had great chemistry with Jen in that role if they didn’t intend to have him be a significant love interest? And then in “Tallahassee” it was pretty obvious that he was being introduced as a love interest for Emma. I mean we had that incredibly sexy hand-bandaging, we see them working together really well, he’s complimenting her (and not just on her looks), while we see Emma clearly attracted to him but scared of those feelings–and then we find out why when we see Neal in the flashbacks, so the beginning of their story is accompanied by a pretty negative introduction for Neal as well. (And I love that pirate/Jolly Roger heart keychain in the convenience store as well; I don’t think that was a coincidence.)
And I know I’ve said this before, but based on Neal’s various introduction episodes, I find it hard to believe that he was supposed to be Emma’s happy ending. First we see him leave her pregnant and in jail for his crime in “Tallahassee” and learn that he’s the one who taught her never to trust anyone. Then the first time we see them interact in the present, Neal (a) yells at her for bringing his father to him, (b) literally laughs in her face when she points out that he abandoned her like Rumple abandoned him, and (c) makes demands about being in Henry’s life when I’m pretty sure he gave up any paternal rights he might’ve had when he left the 16-17-year-old girl, with whom he’d had unprotected sex, in prison for his crime with no way to reach him. Any time you have sex with someone, you have to know that there could be a baby (even if the chances are very small depending on contraceptives). When you know that, and still leave the person with whom you had sex with no way to contact you, surely that is knowingly surrendering your parental rights.
But like I said, I suppose we’ll never know, although I’m going to take A&E at their word when they say they’d planned it. We do know of one instance for sure where they changed their plans for the show because someone wanted them to, though. Ahem.
