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@Epona– I feel horrible, I forgot to say last night, Sorry for you loss
Thank you! And it’s okay; when threads move quickly I know people don’t always read all the posts and there was quite a lot going on here!
I’m just gonna leave a link to this fantastic (& punny) advice- it is great for a laugh
http://zeeday.tumblr.com/post/65864586013 .
Hahaha, that was kind of awesome and very relevant! 😛
[adrotate group="5"]Okay, hope this works; I don’t think I’ve seen this one posted here yet:
(GIFs aren’t mine; the last four come from when Jen was on How I Met Your Mother, in case anyone was wondering.)
Okay, to make up for my grumbling, here’s a picture that I saw on Tumblr this morning and it definitely gave me the warm fuzzies (and that’s not easy to do!):
“Someday my prince will come…”
And thanks very much for the YouTube videos of the CS scenes, @surayya…I’ll need to rewatch those without the terrible scenes in between so I can fully appreciate them. 🙂
I’m not great at posting pictures, especially when they’re gif sets from Tumblr, but there’s a really funny one that I wanted to try to post. I’m off to give it a try.
Gonna be blunt here, I find coming in here & saying we are “Bashing Regina & Lana” a bit rich to be honest, if Hook’s supposed ‘wrong doings’ can be discussed, dissected & touted all over these forums mostly out of context & usually with Hook haters personal opinions trumping cannon or “Because I want to hate him” attitude lol- even when it’s not in relation to the character being discussed & that not be considered “bashing”- then, sorry but you can blimmin well bet your darn cotton socks Regina’s actions & the facts behind them will be discussed when it comes to how she treats Emma or Hook in a CS thread & it is the furthest thing from bashing.
Lana gave an interview & what she said was discussed- NO ONE, has bashed Lana or called her names- they have said they arent pleased with how she worded what she said- MASSIVE difference!You may not like what has been said, but frankly nothing but cannon events & how they relate to Emma has been discussed- that isnt “bashing”– No one has said “Regina is an evil so & so because I want her to be- so there”- we’ve said we dont approve of her actions & how she treated Emma- BIG difference.
You have come in here hurling unjust accusations, while using obnoxious gifs, with nothing constructive to add to the conversation at hand, other than what appears to be a 4yr old style tantrum over the people in this thread not agreeing with your opinion on Regina’s treatment of Emma, or that Regina is the be all & end all of the show (your stats are seriously skewed by the way- almost every character fandom “thinks” their fav is the most loved & the polls prove it- just saying), with your “I speak for an entire fandom & what I say, goes- Oh & pass on this snide remark to however you’ve been talking too well you are at it” attitude & all you are coming off as doing is trolling & baiting- it isnt nice, isnt warranted is frankly uncalled for. Not Cool!
And yeah, this. It’s funny how some of the ardent Regina fans (not all, of course) act a whole lot like Regina herself; they refuse to acknowledge that she’s done anything wrong (after all, the author of the book WROTE her as a villain), think she has every right to be cruel and horrible to anyone and everyone, especially her victims, see the other characters as mere tools for her own happiness, and throw tantrums whenever Regina doesn’t get her way. I actually have a draft in my Tumblr saying the same thing, but I just thought it was rather appropriate in response to what you were saying, @surayya. 😛
Alright, I have to get a response to this off my chest. I haven’t barged into any other threads to defend Emma, Hook, or any of the real people who I’ve seen actually bashed there, but I do feel the need to defend Emma here and point out why I find the current treatment of Regina troubling. Anyone who wants to keep the positive vibes going, feel free to skip. 🙂
Was tipped on about the current discussion, and coming to read the last few posts has me like:
@Epona, I don’t normally come in this thread, but I heard there was some Regina/Lana Bashing going on, and I just had to see it for myself.Was going to give a very long comment, but decided not to. All I’ve got to say is that…Evil Regals have never, and will never turn on Regina or Lana Parrilla. SO….I don’t know what you and @Suraya read, but I can guarantee it wasn’t written by an Evil Regal. And if they say that they are an Evil Regal, but are dissing The Queen and Mama Regal behind their backs….do so tell them this:
Every Evil Regal on Twitter, Facebook, Blogs have cheered Regina on for taking a stand against Emma in the last episode, as we understand that she had a lot of anger and frustration that she needed to get off her chest, and we’d appreciate it if you cut her some slack. If I could…I’d list every tweet here from Evil Regals from sunday night, but it’d probably take up the whole page! So I’ll leave the link to this one reviewer who said everything any loyal Evil Regal would say!
And for any other Evil Regal/Regina/Lana Bashers….this woman/character rakes in half of the viewings according to several polls Spoiler TV and others have had. And anyone who continues to slander Regina or Lana Parrilla’s name simply because they hate the character, or just simply doesn’t like that the show is making an effort to make a hero out of a villain who thanks to outside parties(Rumple and Cora), never stood a chance at being good in the past….then (look below)
I try to give the benefit of the doubt when people want to jump and bash Regina, but not Lana….like, just no! You can’t bash an actress whose just playing her part. Lana Parrilla is making the best of what they’re writing for her character, and Regina is just trying to find her own happy ending. Now that my little rants over…carry on dears.
Okay, first of all, I wasn’t “bashing” Lana–I said that I was uncomfortable with what she said and that put me off this episode. I’m not, you know, sending her whiny or offensive messages on Twitter, or writing any hostile “open letters” like some people do on a regular basis to Jen or A&E. Also, I’m not sure what polls you’re talking about, but I know I haven’t heard of them and I’m sure they’re not exactly scientific. Regina has had minimal screen time in the first four episodes of the season and the ratings have been fine; this most recent episode was the lowest-rated so far and it was heavily promoted as the Regina episode. (Of course it really wasn’t a big enough difference to draw any conclusions, but I’m just saying.)
Now about Regina–first of all, I prefaced my post with with a warning not to read if you didn’t want to see negative things about Regina, and there are reasons why I posted here, and I apologize for the bluntness but honestly one of them is because you WR, as someone who hates CS, aren’t in here (another is because my main problem with Regina in this episode was her horrendous treatment of Emma, who is one half of this ship, and unlike with other shippers, most of us actually love Emma for herself rather than just seeing her as a prop for someone else’s happiness). As I’ve said before, I like actual substantive debates and I’ve tried a few times to have this discussion with you before, but you (and any other hardcore Regina fan I’ve spoken with) never actually have any concrete responses to what I’m saying.
This little post here is a great example of what usually happens: I post screenshots and actual quotes from the show; the Regina lover makes vague claims but has no substantive argument to counter what I’m saying. And I’m not sure why you’re pointing out how other “Evil Regals” feel about this episode…I know how they feel about Regina, and since apparently child abuse, rape, mass murder, torture, wrongful imprisonment, and tyranny aren’t a problem for them, I’m pretty sure literally nothing she does could change their/your minds. I honestly have no idea WHY anyone is so crazy about someone like that; to me what Regina has done over the course of the show is simply indefensible, and she sure as heck isn’t acting like she’s changed one bit and literally stated she regrets nothing. Although actually I would think the “Evil Regals” would want to see the Evil Queen come back. She’s an interesting villain, but as it stands now the ridiculous whitewashing and watching her victims apologize to HER just makes me sick.
Hi, everyone. I haven’t posted over a week because we had a death in the family, but I finally got around to catching up. The first thing I have to address is how much I loathed the most recent episode…if anyone is a Regina fan, you might want to skip this post.
Ouch, bit of a drop that! To be expected though I guess given the promotional material they used. I know on a group with 7000 plus members not one person was looking forward to yesterdays episode & many didnt bother watching thanks to the couple of interviews Lana gave combined with the promo of Regina tearing strips off of Emma (many see it as the whine-gina hr & many have stated they arent interested in hearing it all again, they’ve had enough of it & want S3 Regina back)- many seem to have just waited for clips on youtube/tumbler etc. Which I think is a little sad, as the episode wasnt at all ‘bad’ IMO.
I have seen hundreds of posts since the episode that are seriously not impressed with Regina’s ranting at Emma & I will admit, it surprised me as I thought the evilregals were probably the biggest character fan base given how often I see ‘Regina is the best’ stuff all over the place, but seems it’s more they are one of the most vocal about their love & Emma does actually indeed have the most supporters, it’s just they tend to be quieter. It really has been nice to see Emma so well defended against Regina’s diatribe- even on reviews that accepted Regina’s ranting & bashing of Emma, the comments seem to be skewed towards disgust & disappointment at Regina for her hypocrisy & admiration for Emma, for her not throwing everything Regina has done to her, in Regina’s face.
Yeah. I was VERY put off by all of the interviews and promotions and had no desire to watch the ep live–and that made me really sad because this was a rare Emma flashback episode! But they made it all about freaking Regina. And the interviews…personally I was rather disgusted by some of the things Lana was saying–in one article, she describes the verbal abuse thrown at Emma and how “Emma just takes it, because she knows it’s deserved”. Are you KIDDING me?! Emma saves an innocent wife and mother and since it made Regina lose her boyfriend of less than a week, she deserves to be torn down and yelled at? I just…yeah.
Oh, no- I totally got why Regina was being a super *female dog*, thats just what many people have been saying online.
I too made the connection between Emma/Regina & Killian/Emma right away & understood why Emma wasnt biting back. I do have to admit, as I’ve already said, I wasnt a fan of Regina’s ranting though- given the context of the situation & what she has done to Emma, it felt more than a little hypocritical & hypocrisy drives me mental lol. I just FF her diatribe on my rewatching & the problem is solved for me lol. I’m what seems like, one of the few who actually ended up really enjoying the episode thanks to the Emma insights it gave us
I do agree with obisgril that only having Lana’s POV for the interviews did create biases against the episode with many though.Here’s the thing for me–I honestly DON’T get why Regina was being a complete jerk to Emma (unless they’re setting her up to ultimately become a major villain for next season or something) because if she had really changed, and were really sorry for her past atrocities, she’d be glad that Emma prevented one of her murders. But no.
And @surayya, it’s also really the hypocrisy that gets to me too. It’s so frustrating; I can’t stand it. This gif set does a pretty good job of showing just a small part of that:
(Source: http://onceland.tumblr.com/post/101176592512)
And I honestly don’t see the parallels between this crap and Emma/Killian last season. Was Emma lashing out at him? Sure. Was she being a little unfair at times? Yes. But Killian really did kinda make a mistake by not telling Emma (or someone) about the whole cursed-lips thing (although I’m not sure how that would’ve turned out either). It was understandable for her to be mad at him for that. Regina being mad that Emma saved one of her (many, many) murder victims? Not remotely understandable. And Emma didn’t stand there and accuse Killian of having “ruined her life” when the exact opposite is true. Emma didn’t curse him to grow up alone and unloved, she didn’t murder the first woman he started to fall for in over a decade, and she hasn’t murdered anyone in his family. The situations aren’t at all comparable in my mind.
If they’re showing us how Regina hasn’t really changed, and I can look back at this and know that she eventually gets what she deserves, then I’ll at least be okay. If the show is implying that she HAS changed, and that she has the right to say those things and has redeemed herself…well, they’re doing an incredibly crappy job of it.
And just…Seeing someone torn down like that, especially someone who’s spent her whole life being told and shown that she’s unlovable and worthless (to the point that she felt she wasn’t good enough for her son)…it was just painful. So painful I couldn’t even enjoy the nice CS scenes at the beginning and end.
I disagree. I think Rumple knew exactly where to find Milah because she’d pulled the same stunt before. I think Rumple wanted to keep up the illusion of a happy family for Baelfire and so did Milah hence why, once Baelfire entered the scene, Milah stopped being mean to Rumple and went home quietly. Rumple had told Baelfire to wait outside the tavern but Baelfire went in anyway. Rumple wasn’t being condescending, he was trying to encourage Milah to come home rather than embarrassing her in front of her drinking buddies.
I guess I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I were out with others and my husband (not that I have one, but hypothetically) came in and told me it was just “time to go”, just like that…I’d be very embarrassed. He could have gone up to her and mentioned privately that he had Bae waiting outside or whatever instead of announcing that her playtime was over.
As for Rumple resorting to violence in order to take out his own guilt or insecurities on others…personally, the fact that it was just after she said “I never loved you” sure made it seem like murdering her was more about how he felt than about Bae. She never said “You made me so miserable that my judgment was clouded,” she put the responsibility on herself. “I let my misery cloud my judgment.” However, even if that were the case (which I agree it obviously was with Moe in Storybrooke), I don’t see how that’s any kind of defense. He needs to learn to deal with his own guilt and insecurities himself instead of murdering, maiming, or beating other people.
Rumple only started losing control when Bae came up in conversation. For Rumple, parental abandonment is one of the worst things you can do to a child hence why the desire to undo his abandonment of Bae became an obsession. Milah was blaming Rumple for her abandonment of Bae and in that moment he lost his temper and ripped out her heart.
Rumple’s the one who brought up the subject of Baelfire. And like I said, she didn’t blame him–she said “I” did this and that she feels sorry about it every day. It didn’t look like he snapped until she was all “I never loved you!” That seemed to be what set him off. He didn’t have to say anything in the first place; he could’ve just gotten the bean and left.
I think Milah had more power in that relationship than you are giving her credit for. She was the one who could go to the tavern and drink and spend money whilst Rumple worked as much as he could. Taverns don’t just give out free beer, Milah would’ve had to pay, and since Rumple and Milah were poor, that money wouldn’t have just been lying around spare, it would’ve come out the food money or the fire wood money. As RG pointed out, Rumple couldn’t just up sticks and move because his trade was as a spinner, other villages would’ve had their own spinners and working up a customer base would take time. Young children cost a lot to raise, how would Bae be fed or clothed with no income. Rumple probably would’ve loved to have gone somewhere where he wasn’t seen as a coward hence the “we’ve talked about this”. Logistically it wasn’t a viable option. Milah was a bit of a dreamer, Rumple was a realist.
Maybe she could kind of push Rumple around and harass him, but it’s not like she could’ve gotten a divorce and taken half their things and gone on her way. In the time we’re shown, men were usually the only ones who could own anything. Also, we don’t know that Milah didn’t do any work–she probably had to do a lot of the physical labor on the farm actually, since Rumple had injured himself (likely another source of resentment). She did say she was at the tavern because she needed a break, but of course we can’t know for sure either way.
Also, and obviously this is more speculation, but I’m guessing she went to the tavern that pirates and sailors frequented because if she just smiled and flirted they probably had no problem buying her drinks to keep her attention. And it seems that pirates (well, successful ones) could generally afford to throw money around.
Alright, I was quoting too many other posts and it was getting ridiculous. I’ll try to address the main points, but if I miss something feel free to ask me to clarify or whatever.
As for the drinking–yes, I am drawing my own conclusions based on what we see, such as that since it’s a seaside village, there are probably almost always sailors or other strangers at whatever tavern is closest to the docks. But yes, I also think if there hadn’t been anyone there Milah still would’ve wanted to drink in an effort to forget how much she hated her life. It’s obviously not a good thing, and yes she was being a lousy mother in leaving Bae to go drinking, but unfortunately stuff like that happens quite a lot even today. Alcohol has always been a coping mechanism for some people.
The reason I say he was condescending is because I really think it’s the best way to describe how he treats her. Both in the tavern and at their home…he wasn’t exactly angry with her because it was like he thought she didn’t know better, like she was a child he needed to correct instead of a partner whose concerns he should hear out and discuss things with.
As for Rumple resorting to violence in order to take out his own guilt or insecurities on others…personally, the fact that it was just after she said “I never loved you” sure made it seem like murdering her was more about how he felt than about Bae. She never said “You made me so miserable that my judgment was clouded,” she put the responsibility on herself. “I let my misery cloud my judgment.” However, even if that were the case (which I agree it obviously was with Moe in Storybrooke), I don’t see how that’s any kind of defense. He needs to learn to deal with his own guilt and insecurities himself instead of murdering, maiming, or beating other people.
And the reason I have more sympathy for Milah than Rumple is that Milah, as a woman, had no power, no control over her life or what the family did. She was mean to Rumple, sure, but she didn’t have the power to make his life miserable (at least not without leaving completely like she did) like Rumple had done to her. And if he’d wanted to pick up and leave her, he could’ve done so without consequence. And of course, she didn’t kill him, so that’s why I’m being harsher on him than on her, and why I see her as the victim in their story.
And @Myril, those are really good points too, especially that Rumple is the main character and we’re only seeing things from his perspective. Milah was only ever in two episodes after all, and we pretty much only see her through Rumple’s eyes. I know I’m in the minority feeling sympathy for Milah, probably because I’m more sensitive than most about things like women being judged only on their usefulness to whatever man “owns” them, as a wife/homemaker and producer of children or whatever. Ugh.
you’re acting as though Milah didn’t emotionally abuse him too. He came home to raise their CHILD. And then without even hearing him out, she decided he “wasn’t a man” was a coward, and an unfit father. But apparently this didn’t matter when she up and left her child–twice. First time that we know of, she left him alone in a house, unsupervised, and who knows if he had been feed, so that she could go out drinking and flirting. And then she left her child with a man that she considered scum and not worthy of anyone or anything. You’re acting like this wasn’t a toxic marriage on both sides.
She was mean to him, sure. But as the woman she had no power in the relationship at all. If he’d wanted to throw her out or take everything and leave her, he could’ve. If he’d wanted to move, they would have.
And as for coming home for Bae, here’s my problem with that—did he not think that the other men who’d been drafted might have had children or pregnant wives at home? Why was it okay for their children to be left fatherless but not his? I just don’t get that.
I suggest you rewatch the opening scene of Manhattan. They clearly loved one another, without Bae.
Yeah, I’ve thought about that; it doesn’t fit with the whole “I never loved you” thing. But then it’s easy to love (or think you love) someone when all is well and good. Also, it’s certainly possible to love someone while not respecting them or treating them as an equal. And he just seemed a lot more concerned about “what am I going to tell Bae?” than “Oh no, my wife has been abducted and will be subjected to a life of sexual slavery!” He just seemed more concerned about her as a wife and mother than as her own person, as he did many other times.
If I was talking to the most powerful man in all the realms, I’d probably start apologizing too. It’s called fear, but it does not equate to actual sorry feelings.
I can get seeing it that way, but I didn’t; it seemed more sincere than desperate. She didn’t really act all that afraid of him…shortly after that is when she just outright tells him “I never loved you”. It’s not like she was walking on eggshells; she didn’t think she had to because they had something he really wanted. Obviously she was wrong…
Erm. She told him to run along home. She wouldn’t have gone with him privately at all. “It’s no one. Just my husband” and then lets her new “friend” talk down to Rumple. And then proceeds to call him a coward and not a man for everyone to hear. And…she has responsibilities. His name was Baelfire and he was left alone. I don’t particularly care if her life was hard…she’s a mother. She has responsibilities. She had them the moment he was born. She doesn’t get to abandon them. As a child who WAS abandoned, I’m pretty gosh darn offended that you’re leaving Bae = responsibility out of this. So it’s okay for her to leave him home alone, not knowing where his mother was (he shrugs when Rumple asks), unsupervised and again, had he been fed? Was he being taken care of at all?
Yes, she probably wouldn’t have (unless he’d brought Bae in, since that’s why she left anyway) but he didn’t try. He was just so condescending. And I never claimed that she was a good mother; she just wasn’t and that’s all there is to it. I’m just saying that how Rumple treated her was wrong.
Yeah, so ostracized that she feels 100% comfortable going out to a public tavern and partying. Obviously the village piranha. Oh, and then there’s the woman who obviously cared enough to come tell Rumple and Milah was leaving. Sounds like everyone in town hated them.
But who are the people she’s drinking with? Pirates, sailors that aren’t from their village and don’t have the same biases toward Rumple’s family. It’s doubtful that she had anyone else to drink with. As to the random woman who showed up…honestly, I never understood that. It’s not like Milah would’ve been dragged on board kicking and screaming; how did that woman even know to tell him? But either way, one person telling Rumple about that does not a community make. Also, Rumple never tries to say otherwise when Milah points out that he’s universally known as the village coward; it just doesn’t seem to bother him. And it’s not all that surprising—Rumple injured himself to come home, and Milah said that there were a whole lot of other women who lost husbands (and most likely sons, fathers, brothers, etc.), so they probably couldn’t look at Rumple or Milah without being angry that he left their loved ones to die so he could get home.
They are a dirt poor family living off what he makes as a weaver. It’s REALLY hard to pack up and move in that day and age. Should they maybe have talked about it more? YES. But again…you’re acting like there isn’t fault on both sides. Milah made a CHOICE to hate Rumple for leaving the way. She labeled it as cowardice. (it wasn’t but I guess that’s beside the point…)
I don’t really get what you mean…she can’t really control her feelings. If her life was made miserable because of his actions, she probably couldn’t help but hate him. And we have no idea why he refused to move; again, he just talked down to her and dismissed her pain like he apparently had done several times before. He didn’t say “we’ve talked about this; we just can’t afford it” or anything.
Milah didn’t deserve to die. No one does to die an unnatural death. But who know who didn’t deserve any of this–BAELFIRE. And oh right, she was going to come back for him—lies. Hook said they thought about it but never did. Why? Because she clearly didn’t care that much. So no. She didn’t deserve to die, not by a long shot. But she abandoned her child.
Yes she did; however, I feel it’s worth noting that when Milah left Bae, she left him with a parent who was clearly a much better father than husband and loved him. When Rumple abandoned him, he let him go off into an unknown world completely alone. Either way the poor kid was definitely an innocent victim in all of this. And as for coming back for him, we don’t know it was a lie–I always figured that Milah was too ashamed to let Bae know she’d willingly left him and was afraid he’d just hate her, so she kept putting it off–but we have no evidence for that either. But ultimately at least we agree on two things: (1) Milah was a terrible mother and (2) she still didn’t deserve to die.
What haters think Killian is like to Emma: I’m controlling and I’m abusive, so I’ll follow you around because I’m creepy and a stalker.
What Killian is actually like to Emma: I know you push people away because you think they’ll eventually leave you. I will not be that person for you. I will be by your side no matter what because your problems are my problems and I never want you to feel alone ever again.
http://swanismycaptain.tumblr.com/post/100340274997/what-haters-think-killian-is-like-to-emma-im
Yep, this about sums it up doesnt it
Anybody who thinks Killian is “Bad” & is “Bad” for Emma 1) Doesnt understand Killian/Hook as a character at all 2) Needs to take off their hater/shipper goggles & take in how Killian/Hook is actually written & portrayed 2) Absolutely doesnt understand Emma as a character at all 3) Is missing some of the point of one of the core concepts of the show & 3) Need to pull their personal lives out of a fictional fantasy show & start seeing it as the entertainment it is & Not as some sort of weird guide on how to live their life- this isnt reality TV lol.Yeah…and I’m sure I’ve said it before, but it’s not like Emma ever actually asked him to leave her alone or go away; she often asked for his help or just wanted him around. And she did knee him in the groin once, when she didn’t remember him, so we know that she’s not at all afraid to express her negative feelings if she has them.
And I think I’ve said this before too (sorry…) but I get the distinct impression that for other Emma ships, Emma is really just a prop to make their favorite character happy. I see lots of whining about Emma and how they’ve changed her whole character (because she’s obviously either a lesbian with a crush on the woman who ruined her life and has tried to kill her multiple times or still hung up on the man who left her pregnant and in jail for his crimes). I mean, obviously I love Hook, but I love Emma just as much, if not more. I like them together because they make each other happy (and they have great chemistry), not because it’s just what Hook wants. And I’m so looking forward to finally getting more of Emma’s history this season!
