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Agreed, Rumple did deserve to be treated with more respect than what Milah was providing. Hook was being a tremendous jerk (honestly this is the only curse word that I could think of to describe him) in wanting to duel a cripple man who has a young kid at home whose has a mother that he is planning to run away. Neigher Milah or Hook was right in treating Rumple this way, and at the same time Rumple was wrong in killing Milah. Since two wrong don’t make a right, but I can’t say that she didn’t have it coming.
No, Milah didn’t respect Rumple—and she had a good reason. He deserted his fellow soldiers and then Milah had to pay for his mistakes by being ostracized from everyone around her. Now of course at that point it was probably too late for Rumple to return to the battle, but he could have at least partially fixed his mistake by moving somewhere where he wouldn’t be “the village coward”. We know that Milah asked him to move multiple times and expressed to him how miserable she was (“We’ve talked about this[…]I know this isn’t the life you wanted…”) but he just wouldn’t, and never gave a reason either. She was obviously miserable and he did nothing about it but scold her for not behaving how he wanted her to.
As for Hook himself, we know that Milah had talked to him about Rumple, so he probably didn’t feel sorry for Rumple having been injured since he did that to himself in order to avoid having to fight. And having spoken to Milah (who presumably told him why she wanted to leave when she begged him to take her with him), he probably also didn’t feel too much sympathy for the man who had emotionally abused and made miserable the woman he was falling in love with. Does that justify their having lied to Rumple? No, but it’s at least understandable, and Milah apologized for it later.
And I have to say…I find it rather disturbing when people say Milah had it coming or deserved what she got. Because first of all, she certainly didn’t do anything that should be punishable by death—telling someone you never loved them is not a capital crime, nor is leaving your husband for someone who treats you like an actual person. And in real life women are beaten or murdered every day by their partners for not behaving how they’re “supposed to”, and there’s often a victim-blaming mentality of “well, what did she do to deserve it?” that stops these crimes from being taken seriously. I know this is just a TV show, but I find those assertions rather problematic.
[adrotate group="5"]Hmm, this turned out to be a longer post than I expected…I’m going to break it up.
Rumple may not have been the perfect husband from Milah’s perspective, (though I can’t condone how she blatantly disrespected him in such a public way), but no man, especially one who felt stuck and desperate, and who genuinely cared for his family and was trying to do the best with what little they had, deserves to be led to believe that his wife had been kidnapped and gang raped then likely killed, so that he had to go back tell his child that his mother was dead. And if Milah had any knowledge of what Rumple was told, (likely because she was probably below deck and could hear his altercation with Hook), and did nothing to ease his grief over that, then I have no sympathy for her.
Well of course it wasn’t exactly the right thing to do, but if I’d been emotionally abused by a man for five-plus years, I think I’d be inclined to want to make him hurt a bit too. Also, I really didn’t get the impression that he cared about Milah herself all that much—again, he refers to her as if she has value only in what she can give him or Bae. He mentions his son twice but never asked Killian not to hurt Milah or to spare her life or anything, just to let her go back to serving her purpose.
Also worth noting, Milah did later apologize and acknowledge that she’d made a mistake (“I was wrong to lie to you. I was the coward. I know that now.”) Rumple certainly never apologized for the way he treated her, nor did he ever even acknowledge that murdering her was wrong.
I agree. Also Rumple never disrespected Milah publically. He tried to be subtle and encourage her to return home rather than calling her out for leaving her young son unattended at home.
He did publicly humiliate her—first of all in deserting during the Ogre Wars (and bringing shame and social isolation on his family), but also in that first scene in the tavern. Milah’s there drinking and playing dice with the pirates, and Rumple walks in and from across the table with everyone in earshot tells her condescendingly that “it’s time to go” and that she has “responsibilities” (like he’s scolding an errant child). If he really needed to talk to her, he could’ve gone up to her and spoken to her privately. I don’t call that subtle, personally.
The sad but true reality of this site unfortunately- If I hadn’t been optimistic (apparently stupidly so) that things would improve & wasnt so stubborn about refusing to be run off of the site, I’d have left with the others long ago.
Don’t leave! Just…come straight here. Haha.
Seriously though, I still wander out in the rest of the forum, partly because I think it’s fascinating that people can watch the same show and come to wildly different conclusions, so I usually enjoy hearing others’ reasoning and debating our respective positions (as long as it’s done politely and without personal attacks). 🙂
As I said elsewhere, with the whole cursed hand thing. I really don’t mind if it ends up being more psychological, than an actual curse. Once a seed is planted in your head, it’s hard to get rid of it (doesn’t mean you can’t over come it). Don’t think about white bears. Now you’re all thinking about white bears. Even though the hand may not be bad on its own, Hook has tried really hard to over come his darkness, to be worthy of Emma’s love. The hand could be a phyical reminder of who he was/is and who he’s trying to be. And Rumple’s always messing with people’s heads.
Edit: I totally missed what RGF saidm but yes, that’s pretty much what I think
Yeah, if it’s a psychological thing as opposed to the hand somehow having its own independent thought processes, it’ll be much easier to buy. And I mean we know from the pictures that he’s getting the hook back this season eventually, after, I hope some adorable stuff with Emma helping him realize that he can be a good person and deserving of her love with or without his left hand. Although I still think it’s super creepy that Rumple was keeping it in a freaking jar. *shudder*
Zero will power to resist the sneak peek here
I agree with you on both points too- I’m not sure what to think… but I have got a darn good giggle out of the whole concept if nothing else at this point, I mean is there really anything else we can do other than go “ohhhhhhhhhh Kaaaaaaaaay” & LOAO
I get on the holy crabby patties batman- the CS thread is active again! …. I actually went ‘OMG, there must have been a sneak peek,’ when I woke up to 2 additional pages lol
I know, right?! It’s just so dumb if that’s actually what happens!
In addition to the fact that he wasn’t evil when he had the hand, there’s also the issue that if the rest of him is “redeemed”, shouldn’t he just be able to hang on to the hand for a while and control it until it gets with the program and redeems itself as well? (Haha, that sounds so ridiculous!) I’m sorry, I just can’t handle (pun intended) that idea because (a) it’s ridiculous; (b) he had the hook for his worst actions; and (c) even if that were the case, there’s no reason why it should be permanent if the rest of his body successfully redeemed itself…that just sounds so ludicrous! I was actually looking forward to all of the drama from Rumple having cursed his hand, but for the hand itself to somehow be evil? No way to take that seriously!
Rumple wasn’t right to cut of his hand but neither was Hook right to bully those he thought were weaker than him. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In context though, the reason Rumple cut off his hand wasn’t because he wanted hook to be handless, he cut it off because he thought that was the hand that Hook was holding the magic bean in- the magic bean that would’ve enabled Rumple to travel to a land without magic to find Baelfire. Hook didn’t know it but he was standing between Rumple and his son and that was a dangerous position to be in.
Well, I don’t think he bullied Rumple just because he could; we know that Milah had told him about her husband so he probably didn’t see him as an unfortunate cripple; he saw him as a man who wounded himself to get out of his military obligations and then made his wife pay for his cowardice.
And wanting the bean to get to Bae is no excuse at all–if he’d just followed through on the deal he was making with Milah and Hook (the bean in exchange for just letting them go) he would’ve gotten the bean without having to do or give up anything at all. Then of course he murdered his wife after she hurt his feelings, and he did indeed hack off Hook’s hand purely because he wanted him to hurt him. His exact words were that death “is not in the cards for you, sonny boy! I want you to suffer like I’ve suffered!”
My point was about Hook and how he behaved in that scene. We all know Hook and Rumple are never going to be best buddies, if they want to antagonise each other that’s their choice. However there is an innocent third person in this whole situation and that’s Belle. Rumple’s lies are going to hurt Belle, we know this and RUMPLE knows this hence why he’s trying to keep it secret. Hook, on the other hand is using that as a threat. In my book, that makes HOOK as equally bad, if not more worse than Rumple. Hook doesn’t care about Belle’s feelings at all, he’s using Belle as a bargaining chip. He is using Rumple’s feelings for Belle against him and that has Hook skating very close to season 2 territory IMO. If Hook really cared for Belle as a person, he would either tell her outright or he would keep quiet citing that he made a deal with Rumple to help Elsa in exchange for his silence. Hook should not be threatening to cause emotional distress to Belle the moment that he no longer gets what he wants out of Rumple.
I agree; blackmailing Rumple isn’t the right way to go–however, it’s not like Hook is threatening to harm him or Belle; Rumple could easily put a stop to this whole thing by just telling Belle the truth himself.
It’s also worth noting that Hook hasn’t really asked for anything that would cost Rumple anything. Last week, apparently blackmail was the only way to get Rumple to do the right thing and help with the Snow Queen. And really, he never should’ve cut off Hook’s hand in the first place, to putting it back is also really only returning what he stole.
Also Rumple warned Hook about the hand, even though he could’ve quite easily sent Hook on his way with no warning whatsoever and let him find out about the hand later in the evening, and Hook’s response was to laugh in Rumple’s face and say “I’ve changed, you haven’t”. Rumple at least acknowledged that Hook had changed, Hook could’ve at least extended him the same courtesy because Rumple HAS changed, if he hadn’t, Hook certainly wouldn’t have been in any position to go on a date with Emma because he would’ve either been dead or worse. Hook is playing with fire, it’s inevitable that he’s going to end up getting burned.
Well, I can easily see why Hook doesn’t think Rumple has changed–he’s certainly giving off the vibe that he’d happily kill Hook right then if it weren’t for Belle. Add the lying to Belle and refusal to help with anything, and I’m not surprised that he’s drawn that conclusion. It’s not like Hook has anything to do with that or any control over Rumple’s actions. And as for the hand…well, it’s hard to talk about that without knowing how that’ll play out.
Yeah….believe me….Regina and Rumple already paid the price for their sins, so I’m not even about to go off into that. But what has Hook paid? And do tell how Rumple publically humiliated Milah….did he leave her and their son for some sword swinging female pirate? Rumple treated Milah with love while he was human…she’s the one who treated him like an animal.
Well, I’ve tried to discuss that stuff, but it’s very difficult to get straight answers (and I don’t just mean you, @WR; I see it a lot both here and elsewhere). I mean, Rumple lost his son and while I don’t necessarily see that as a “price”, I’d say that’s about the worst thing that could’ve happened to him. Regina, on the other hand…well, you know how I feel about her. I’m not sure what “price” you mean with either her or Hook though; I guess for me the price should be feeling and expressing genuine remorse and making amends (where possible) to those you’ve wronged.
Now about Rumple’s treatment of Milah–the public humiliation I was referring to was when he went to the tavern and scolded her in public (like a child) for not taking care of her “responsibilities” (when, as she pointed out, he hadn’t exactly fulfilled his either). He treated her like an object that was broken and not serving its purpose–he expected her to be a good little wife, keep her head down and just stay in the town where she was extremely unhappy. He refused to listen to her pleas to just move, to go somewhere where his mistakes wouldn’t make their lives miserable anymore; they were pariahs where they lived because of his injuring himself to get out of fighting. So did she lash out at him verbally? Yes, we see some of that, because as a woman it’s the only thing she could do.
And in his refusal to remotely consider her pleas, he didn’t treat her like a partner; he treated her like property (also evidenced by the language he constantly uses regarding how Hook “stole” her, like she was some object). We see Milah asking Rumple (yet again) to move right before she left with Hook–this one last refusal to consider her feelings at all was the last straw, so she left with a man who loved her and treated her like an actual person. Rumple may not have physically abused Milah or anything (yet, though of course he murdered her later), but he allowed her no autonomy and refused to acknowledge that she was an individual with her own intrinsic value, treating her like her only worth lay in what she could do for him and his son.
I think Hook gets what he deserves with the cursed hand
Really? So you think it was totally cool for Rumple to cut it off in the first place?
Hook wasn’t the nicest pirate back in the day, even before he stole Rumple’s wife and publically humiliated the man….
I have to leave for a dinner thing pretty much right now, but I just had to point out that as a major Regina fan, I find your saying “what goes around comes around” to be quite…ironic, shall I say? 😛
Also, by that logic…Rumple deserved what he got after the way he treated Milah (including publicly humiliating her as well).
They should have had them go on a date to a Mexican restaurant so Emma could have ordered tacos! Although I read somewhere that they are somehow doing the Lady and Tramp spaghetti and meatballs scene with Emma and Killy at the Italian restaurant. That should be beyond adorable, even if he just offers her his last meatball! But seriously did anyone NOT replace “hold her” with either “make tacos” or “have sex” during Killy’s little explanation to Rumple?
Ew, no–the idea of those two discussing their sex lives is just way too icky! I really have no idea why he couldn’t have just said “the ‘why’ doesn’t concern you” or something.
I did see a theory on Tumblr or somewhere (I don’t know if this has been mentioned here before or not) that perhaps one reason for this brief arc is that it’ll be easier to film any scenes involving, well, let’s just say less clothing than usual without having to worry about the logistics of portraying a missing hand…lol. Seriously though, since it’s a PG-rated show I’m not going to hold my breath on that front.
Either way though, I can’t wait! Just two days to go! 🙂
