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Let me just say that Henry checking on Regina to see if she was alright…yeah kid…why didn’t you try that the night she was called a monster, and was walking home alone in tears? But anyway I’m confused….people get onto Regina’s case when she is being a parent to Henry, and now because she’s had her heart broken and more than likely doesn’t want Henry to see her in such a depressed/terrible/broken/vulnerable state, but then finally lets him in….that’s Regina being a parent only “when she wants to.” #AnotherExampleofNothingReginaDoesIsGoodEnough Someone please explain….
Well, I can only speak for myself, but the first thing I’d say is that Henry shouldn’t have to act like the parent in their relationship; Regina’s emotional wellbeing should not rest on her 12/13-year-old child’s shoulders. Regina is putting her needs and feelings before Henry’s when she decided that she was going to shut herself off from him and everyone else (and with a raven-sent note; she didn’t even speak with him) and clearly hurt him when she did that.
It seems like Regina thinks it’s okay to be a parent only when she wants to be; is it really okay to take several days off from caring for your son because you’re feeling sad? What would she have done if she didn’t have Emma to take care of Henry during those several days?
[adrotate group="5"]Yo, Bo_Peeps you badass you!!! Nice cleavage btw (not how I pictured you)
Ahem, SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Holy moly, that I did NOT expect. The hug, the interlocking fingers, the head holding, the carrying, the clutching each other, the sex (no??? darn…..). I thought we’d be getting a convo not all the PDA’s. I’m DYING over here!!! (send help) Well that would have been a great way to warm up…;-)
Also I don’t think anyone in this thread is capable of sending help at this point, haha.
One Problem, Tigerlily was a princess of an entire tribe. While that may explain lack of involvement of Tigerlily it doesn’t explain the lack of involvement of her people. My theory is that he and his pirates killed the Neverland Indians (which does include woman and children) and then drowned Tigerlily, since Peter pan ordered him too. Before anyone says anything I am basing this on the historical events like Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee Massacre, and the Sand Creek Massacre. Which the show could use for inspiration to explain Neverland Indians absence.
Um, there’s no evidence at all for any of that whatsoever, or that the Neverland Indians ever existed in the OUAT universe at all. And bringing real, historical atrocities into this just feels very…inappropriate?
None of our villains do things that are sadistic for no reason. They all have reasons, it’s whether or not the audience subjectively accepts their reasons. Example. Regina sadistically orders the death of an entire village when they will not give up Snow White. You and I are put it down as an atrocity. @WickedRegal will dance around us telling us why Regina’s reasons were justified. Rumple murders a mute maid to keep her from drawing a picture of his dagger. I can find a reasoning behind this in the form of self preservation and preservation of his child. Others have argued with me. So anything Hook has done might be sadistic and with reason, but it all comes to down to do I, the subjective viewer, accept his reason.
Fair enough–you’re right, the villains will definitely justify their actions to themselves at least. I suppose it does come back to the fact that Hook’s crimes were far less than those of the others, both in terms of numbers and severity, and I can understand his reasoning–avenging murdered loved ones. And that’s basically Regina’s reasoning too, but she went after someone who didn’t do it instead of the person who did. I’d have much more sympathy for Regina if she had been trying to go after her mother to avenge Daniel’s death instead of someone who really wasn’t at fault for it. (Although I still wouldn’t be able to get over, say, murdering an entire village for example–but I don’t think it would have been an issue since I doubt people would have been willing to give their lives to protect Cora.)
No but Pan might have ordered Hook to do the deed for whatever reason. Overall, though, it’s a rather moot point. I honestly don’t think show will ever flashback to any truly vile deeds Hook has done, unlike with Regina and Rumple. And this isn’t a criticism of Hook so much as the show, but the writers stopped being interested in selling Hook as the VILLAIN who was brought on to rival Rumple awhile ago. Any and all flashbacks we get of Hook will most likely not focus on anything dark, like massacring an village or killing mute maids.
Perhaps Pan ordered Hook to drown her with the intention of saving her himself so that he could make her or her family do something for him? But yes, moot point, haha.
I guess I just have a hard time imagining him as having done anything sadistic for no reason…I think I never did see him as much of a villain aside from the flashbacks in 209. I think the reason why is that in the episode in which he’s introduced, he seems like a terrible person at first but before the idea of him as “villain” sticks (for me, anyway) we see him (a) treat Milah as an actual person, (b) be willing to die to protect the woman he loves (and vice versa) and (c) see that woman be brutally murdered in front of him and then have his hand chopped off. I can certainly understand his desire for revenge.
Probably Milah is a big variable here–while she also seems pretty awful at first, we later see how miserable she is and that even after asking him multiple times, her husband refuses to do anything to try to improve her life. So I really don’t blame her that much for wanting to leave. Leaving Bae wasn’t a good thing to do, but she did leave him with a father who clearly loved him (and growing up in a home filled with hatred and resentment isn’t exactly a great situation for a child either) and later planned on going back for him (whether seriously or not, we don’t know). Then she went off with someone who could give her the life she wanted and who loved and respected her in a way Rumple apparently didn’t. (It’s clear that the rest of the crew respects her as well; when she gives them an order they immediately move to comply.)
Then I think other people just see her as a terrible woman who abandoned her family when she was seduced by a pirate, in which case one’s view would certainly be different.
Ah, when did that one come up?! I love it! Less than four hours…I really hope the timing works out so I can watch it live. 🙂
As to Tiger Lily…we don’t know if they exist in the ONCEiverse. But Hook trying to drown Tiger Lily is keeping with Disney/Barrie canon which is where POM is coming from, I do believe.
Yes, I remember that from the book and movie…but in both of those instances Pan goes out of his way to save her from drowning rather than orchestrate it, and that really doesn’t seem like something OUAT’s Pan would do, haha.
Also Hook implied he was going to kill Belle in the library. Could that be the twice she was referring to? Because if you count her cell, the library and the town line, that’s actually 3 times.
There he was threatening her to get her to call Rumplestiltskin so Smee could go into his shop and steal Bae’s shawl. He wasn’t really trying to kill her there, because if he had killed her, how could she have called Rumple to make him leave his shop? I really don’t think he tried to kill her again after the cell thing; he was just using her to hurt Rumple–which, since she had absolutely nothing to do with Milah’s death, is of course still pretty terrible.
As to you overall point: are Hook’s crimes on the same level? Objectively, no. But a lot of that is also because we don’t know the full extent of his crimes. We know that he did something to “Rufio” and that he was doing “Pan’s dirty work” but outside of allusions, we don’t know what those are. It’s only speculation and we will most likely not get into it, in universe.
As for what was the “dirty work” Hook did for Pan, I think Hook may have drowned Tigerlily and killed Rufio on Pan’s orders.
To be fair, we really don’t know the full extent of Rumple’s or Regina’s crimes either. I mean, Rumple was alive for hundreds of years and he wasn’t exactly concerned about collateral damage as far as getting to Bae. And who knows how many villages Regina had massacred?
And on the “dirty work” thing…did Pan ever actually say that Hook had already done Pan’s dirty work? In 305, when Pan is talking to Hook on Dead Man’s Peak, he says “Come and work for me, like the old days” and “We’ve done business before” but the mention of “dirty work” doesn’t come into play until Pan is describing the terms of his new deal…”What do you want me to do?” “Come be in my employ. Do my dirty work.” “What dirty work?” “When the time comes, I’ll let you know.” None of which happened. Now I fully admit that that’s just my being nitpicky, because really, any work or business that could’ve been done for Pan was probably not anything good. But I’m guessing that if it had been something that horrible it would be haunting Hook and we’d have seen or heard about it–just a guess though. Regardless, when Pan specifically mentioned “dirty work”, Hook had to ask what he meant. (Unless it was mentioned somewhere else and I forgot about it?)
On the subject of Rufio though, it didn’t even occur to me to think of that as a crime…judging by what we’ve seen of the Lost Boys and the context in which Hook said it, I just figured that it was self defense. Also, Tiger Lily ? Unless I’m forgetting, we never heard of Tiger Lily (or any of the Indians) having existed on Neverland at all in the OUAT universe.
