[fioredi]

Hey guys! Long time since I’ve posted! You guys are fast I can barely keep up with the thread!

Just wanted to say I’m enjoying the positivity in here and the theories!! I’m really hoping for something epic for SF in this second half and I still believe it can happen!

@Slurpeez108 headcanon: accepted

Same!! Oh my goodness that ep title idea, yes please!! I think that would be so perfect! And of course the rest of it too! 😉

ps Slurpeez do you mind if I share that thought on my tumblr? I have to fangirl about it some more haha

[fioredi]

The Swan Princess parallels are pretty interesting!

It’s been a couple months since I’ve watched a Swanfire video, and it’s amazing to me how every time I see one it SHOCKS me how beautiful their story is. Every single time. I’ve never been in a fandom of a tv show before, and I’ve never been touched by a couples’ story as I am Neal and Emma’s. I think something people don’t understand is the beauty in the pain. Part of the reason it hurt Emma so deeply when Neal left is because she thought she knew he’d never leave. And she was right, essentially. I know that relationships can have all pain and no beauty too, but from experience, those usually come with loads of warning signs we sometimes choose to ignore… internally, and from friends and family.
It’s always confusing when someone leaves. But it’s even more confusing when it was natural and healthy from the start. The amazing thing is we can “feel” all this just by watching someone act. You know? Not only is this just such a brilliant story that I am so grateful to A and E for, but JMo and MRJ have the ability to communicate such emotion, together, through their acting. There’s much more to chemistry than the superficial way it gets labeled now adays. There’s physical chemistry and then there’s the entire package: one that cuts down to the soul and is portrayed organically, instead of contrived from lines.

Perfectly stated! And I totally agree! And it’s funny that you mention being grateful to the writers and actors…because as you all may or may not have seen on tumblr , there is something called “Operation Tiger” going on where we are organizing a way to show the creators/actors our appreciation for Swanfire. Here’s a blog for it http://operation-tiger.tumblr.com but it is password protected to keep the plans secret until the reveal so if you want the password send me a pm! 🙂 It would be  awesome to get as many SF fans in on it as possible!!

Di

[fioredi]

Adorable RG!So if you read those untold stories, there’s a Rumbelle one that’s interesting for SF. It’s the one where Rumpel wishes Belle were dead because he’s just so angry and hurt. I think it’s an interesting comparison because when you have a character that’s felt so unloved and alone as I think Emma and Rumple have, that kind of thought hurled at someone they actually do love, reflects their devastation and fear of being hurt, not their actual dislike and lack of love for the person. Emma continues to be written as not just having “feelings” some amorphous thing between friendship, infatuation, flattery, curiosity for Neal–she LOVES him, and as she “never stopped” it seems like that’s “IN LOVE” with him, even though at the present moment in the story there remain questions they have for each other, and about themselves. That’s character development though, and shows how this love story is being developed in the present day narrative.In this story, evil isn’t born, but made, and I think “True Love” is the same. You don’t fall instantly in True Love–you have a spark with someone that grows to a connection that deepens, and could become love, and then if you resist the temptations/challenges to give up when circumstances draw you apart, to continue to put the other person’s interests first, to try to understand them, forgive them when necessary, it can become “True Love”. Now I see why people feel that could apply to CS, and yes, it could–but it does to SF too every bit as much as it does with Rumbelle or Snowing because resisting the temptations doesn’t mean you never doubt yourself, never break apart, or that you never experience anger or mistrust of the other person. It means that despite all that you find a way back to each other, when a lesser degree of love would shatter and vanish, the connection between a true love pair is stronger. It doesn’t mean you always know the other is there, waiting. Alice says that in WL, but actually she was depressed and despondent, convinced Cyrus was gone until she saw some proof. As she said, its nice to have. Charming was willing to die to save Abigail’s cursed love, because either he helped her or he’d be out of his misery over Snow rejecting him. Aurora thought Phillip was dead, not realizing there was a way to get him back until Cora told her. Ariel with Eric, Cinderella with Thomas, had moments fearing the other wouldn’t trust or understand something about them (being a mermaid/deal with rumple) . If you stop the story at a moment, if you question it and tear into it the way people do who want something else to happen, it can really seem like the couple aren’t going to find their way back, shouldn’t because their belief in love at those moments is not enough to make the challenge non trivial. If you don’t do that though and pay attention to how we’re seeing BOTH sides of Emma and Neal’s perspectives here, it definitely seems like the writers are telling the story of how they fell back in love (even if we haven’t really seen that much of the story of how they fell in love in the first place). The important part, the part where that love is (I think) becoming “True” is when they choose to support, forgive, understand and trust each other despite the reasons to do the opposite.
Snow thought that Neal would understand Emma kissing Hook. He did. He never once showed anger at Emma about that, even though we can see it wasn’t that it didn’t trouble him. He obviously was jealous, and while he didn’t hold it all in, he also didn’t aggressively lash out at Hook or Emma. Emma had much the same restrained attitude with Tamara. Of course, she did not have a troubled history of her own with Tamara as Neal did with Hook. Plus, Emma had not yet been willing to admit or reveal that she still loved Neal, as she very much resisted being honest with herself, Neal or anyone about how she felt (and Neal too allowed fear and doubt to keep him from expressing all he felt as well). Neal learned his lesson though, and wasn’t going to keep that love inside this time around in NL. So it was harder, because he knew he felt something for Emma, as opposed to outwardly having that bit of a wall to cover the hurt, to pretend not to care at all. He could do nothing but feel it, but he didn’t let it turn into resentment. He acknowledged he had no claim, no right to demand her affections be his exclusively. He didn’t tell her she has to choose, then and there or even later. He only wanted her to know that he IS a choice because he loves her, and if she decides that all they have between them is Henry (even if he wants more), he will respect and understand it. So both of them have this respect, rather than just thinking of their own feelings, for each other, and their choices even when they think they aren’t going to be together, despite the pull they feel toward each other. They act like they love each other rather than they’re in a war trying to get back at each other, or insult each other, or one-up the other. They support each other, bring out the best (compassion, humor, confidence) in each other. So it doesn’t surprise me that Snow, having the experience of true love that survives misunderstandings, would see it between Neal and Emma and root for Emma to realize it too.

*stands up and claps* This is a lovely and well-written post!! Thank you for sharing!!

And guys, I’m blanking out here…in that b/w gifset with the “What Hurts the Most” lyrics…what scene is the last gif of Neal from?

Di

[fioredi]

Aw lol I love the shipper Snow gifset!

i apologize if anything in this post is formatted incorrectly or doesn’t make sense, I’m on my phone & it’s really hard to post this way lol

 

fioredi wrote: TA! There were bad ship wars in the Lost fandom but tumblr didn’t exist then so now it’s even worse for any fandom!! Did you ship on Lost? I was a Jater

JATE WAS FATE!

indeed they were!! You & I clearly have good taste 😀

 

re the challenge thing, that is true about Emma but to me it was pointless to accept that challenge because he won anyway, she gave him exactly what he wanted. I’m stubborn in the way that I’d sooner be tortured than give in to a cocky guy lol So I just hate that Emma played right into his scheme.

Di

[fioredi]

yes!! Most definitely there was a parallel in the sf portal/sj pit scene. Suliet becoming a viable ship gives me hope that they can do that with Hook/Tink because I think they have potential & I definitely see SF as the Jate (aka the no brainer-meant to be pairing) of this triangle.

Di

[fioredi]

It would be great to find out! And that scene of Emma giving Henry up is honestly one of my top 2 most heartbreaking moments in the show (the other being Snow kissing baby Emma goodbye and crying on the bed afterward) so I was very happy that we got a “redo” even if it was an implanted memory. But poor Neal still never got extra time/memories with his son, instead he loses another year. Crying forever.

fioredi wrote: Especially one with creators that wrote for Lost which stubbornly held onto their triangle pretty much the entire series–even though it was mostly over by the second to last season

YES. Die hard LOST fan but that triangle needed to be OVER. And this one does as well. LOST didn’t have the social media aspect like ONCE does which might be why this triangle feels worse than Skate vs Jate

ITA! There were bad ship wars in the Lost fandom but tumblr didn’t exist then so now it’s even worse for any fandom!! Did you ship on Lost? I was a Jater 😀

Thanks for the link to Screwball’s post! I will read it later!

Amazing post, Slurpeez! I agree with everything you said!!

Emma sees he is trying his best by apologizing and expressing his regret. Hook has yet to even acknowledge when he’s actually being a scoundrel or to apologize to Emma for twice leaving her to die. I just hope Emma can start to see through that mask of “good form” when really, Hook’s interest in Emma is really self-interest. I give Hook credit for helping Emma get her son back, but the fact that he only saved Charming in order to get something in return from Emma in the form of a kiss is really quite disturbing.

And this is part of what bugs me about what they’ve done to squeeze this triangle into the show. Pre-3×05 Emma would not have fallen for the good form thing anyway. She would have laughed in Hook’s face, rolled her eyes and pushed past him when he gestured to his lips for a kiss. And not saying anything to him when he tells her “when I win your heart, and I will…” WTH?? That is NOT Emma. They have had to make her OOC in order for CS/the triangle to work and it really sucks. I understand her seeing Hook differently and giving him a chance in terms of seeing him as an ally since he’s helping them, but that’s it. I don’t believe at all that pre-3×05 Emma would give Hook a second glance. So prayer circle that the memory wipe has also erased that Emma and once she gets all her memories back she’ll be all business again and tell Hook to take a hike as far as romantic notions go.

And yes, Neal just keeps proving that he is the man of honor. The one that will give her space, that allows and affirms her to feel what she feels and tells her she doesn’t have to apologize for it, but also lets her know he’s not giving up and he will fight…she doesn’t have to worry about him leaving again. He doesn’t come on too strong so he doesn’t scare her off but he also isn’t willing to let her retreat behind her walls and refuse to talk about things so he tries things like “i’ll be sitting at the booth around lunch time & you’re welcome to join me”. And she WAS GOING TO. After a little father-daughter chat, even though she’s scared and doesn’t feel ready, she was going to try. But naturally they weren’t allowed that moment because another curse had to get in the way. Sigh, ok I’m stopping now I’m hurting myself haha. But I strongly believe that all of these wonderful nuggets in their story prove they are the couple the writers intend to be endgame, unfortunately they just also believe they have to use the tired old LT trope in order to make things “more infuriating  interesting”.

Di

[fioredi]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!! *hugs to all* *enjoys my cookies and hot cocoa…with cinnamon of course! Thanks for remembering!*

melbell wrote: Just wanted to let you all know that until episode 5 (the CS kiss), I didn’t realize there was a love triangle- just thought that Emma and Neal NEEDED to find each other in Neverland and how tragic it was that she thought he was still dead. To me, I always thought Emma and Neal were endgame but can’t be together yet because… well most shows don’t put their endgame couple together without a few obstacles

I agree! I think most casual viewers would be very shocked at what of this fandom thinks about the show.

Haha totally! Sometimes being in fandom can make you feel like you’re going insane because people have…interesting interpretations of the show. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Melbell! And don’t be afraid to grace us with more sometime! It will be great to hear from someone who hasn’t been too influenced by fandom…yet lol

Yep! Home is a big thing for SF. That’s what Tallahassee was gonna be for them. A real home is what they’d both longed for all their lives. And in the ep Going Home, two thirds of the SF Family ended up making their home in the city that the other third of the family had made his home. Emma’s tagline on her promo poster was about a lost girl finding her way home, and over the course of this season we’ve seen her seeing Neal reunite with his father, which made her reflect on her own reunion with her own parents. She found home in them, and then she lost it all, but she ended up where Neal’s home had been. None of this is coincidence.

I love this! So true!! I was SO excited when Emma and Henry were not only in NY but listening to “Neal’s song” as I like to think of it (though now I think of it as Swanfire’s song haha). Not coincidence at all.

And ITA that Emma’s home is with her family: her parents and Neal IMO. And I don’t know if this was officially confirmed or not but I think these were real, the posters going around for Neal too that said “believe in second chances”. Neal has already established his second chance with his father by reconciling with him and I fully believe his other and main second chance is with his own family/Emma. I just am not sure how far they will go into that this season. Not sure how much they want to play with the triangle (sigh) but I’m really hoping they decide to wrap it up by the finale and show us more progress for SF. (though I’m being generous here, IMO the LT should ideally be wrapped up within the first few eps back in 3B, but that may be expecting too much of a tv show. Especially one with creators that wrote for Lost which stubbornly held onto their triangle pretty much the entire series–even though it was mostly over by the second to last season)

ETA something I realised right when I hit submit. Neal not being able to watch Henry walk away is similar to how Emma couldn’t look at newborn Henry. Both of them knew that if they looked in that moment, they wouldn’t be able to let him go.

Oh my goodness why would you say that! I’m okay…I am. Nope, no I’m not. I feel like there was so much focus put on Regina in that segment that people were not realizing how much Neal was losing…again. Guy can’t catch a break for more than 5 minutes. His dad, then his son and his “person” (to borrow from Regina lol). I demand some happy Neal by the end of this season! He deserves it!

I’d love to discuss more but it’s my bedtime! I spent too much time squealing with fellow sfers on a chat & tumblr about the pics we got from MRJ & JMo today. Talk to you all soon! 

Di

[fioredi]

Hey everyone I’m Di! I’m mostly on tumblr (under this same username) but I’ve really wanted a place to have involved convos about SF and that’s really hard to do on the tumblr format & someone recently shared a link to this forum so here I am! 🙂

Love what I’ve read so far and I’ll do a more detailed post/reply soon but for now just wanted to introduce myself. Looking forward to chatting with you all soon!

Di

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