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“Sleeping Snow is my favourite Snow.”
Isn’t that what a lot of parents say about their kids when they are toddlers? Lol. It’s the closest thing to a maternal sentiment that the EQ’s ever going to express (towards Snow, I mean).
[adrotate group="5"]That was a great scene!
Maybe yellow is supposed to signify Gold?
That would fit with the dialog. What also strikes me is how the EQ picked up the apple, toyed with it and then replaced it. Could this signify that nothing happened beyond the kiss? If I were directing this scene, I would have had her take a bite of the apple to insinuate that they “spun some gold”. Or if their….thing was ongoing, she could have taken the apple with her.
But I don’t get how you can not understand why the writers have devoted so much time writing for him simply because he’s what you call a bad person.
This oversimplifies my argument. It’s clear from the way he’s being written this season that the writers have spent a lot of time going through feedback about the character and adjusted his behaviour accordingly. They have not done the same for other characters. Rumple, once so complex and nuanced, has pretty much been reduced to a horned horror. Belle has been reduced to a righteous nag. Why don’t they put the same effort in for these characters? Yes, Hook has qualities which make him interesting, but he’s not the only one with intriguing qualities – not by far. He just comes across as a creators’ pet.
Now if you want to be angry that the writers decided to have him fall for Emma and have Emma accept him, well then that’s perfectly reasonable.
Well, I was displeased when Emma accepted him, knowing his history and without much proof that he’d changed (that the audience could see). But as we keep reiterating in discussions about Hook, it’s not about the characters themselves but what they represent. Having Emma (and other characters) accept Hook and sweep his past misdeeds under the carpet romanticises toxic masculinity.
So it is a good thing that they are developing him into a better person. My issue is with how it is being done. It is too quick and easy and the situations feel contrived. Yes, I will agree with you that this pertains to other characters’ development as well. It comes down to poor writing. But I stick to my point that it is problematic that it is happening now, rather than three seasons ago. The order in which things happen matter. He was romanticised well before his behaviour merited it, and the redemption is coming almost as an afterthought.
Again, this all seems like bias opinions toward not liking Hook because of Neal.
You mention several times that SwanFire fans might be biased against Hook and hence downplay his good deeds. But it works both ways; CS and Hook fans will be biased in favour of Hook, and might be blinded to his flaws which are apparent to everyone else. In any case, you are committing the ad hominem logical fallacy in this argument. Just because SwanFire fans do not like Hook, it does not mean their criticisms are not on point.
It’s just really unfair to Hook I think.
I don’t think so. Since he’s a fictional character, it’s not exactly as if he’s being hurt. And if he were a real person, well, with the amount of blood he’s spilled, I don’t think anyone should feel obligated to forgive him. Same goes for the other villains. I started this discussion with you knowing perfectly well that we wouldn’t agree. But this episode was about Hook, this thread is about the episode and this forum is for discussion, so why not?
So because of bad past actions, Hook isn’t allowed to get redemption because he’s male? What about all the bad stuff Rumple has done? We constantly forgive him. What about the EQ/Regina? We forgave her.
First of all, I don’t think Rumple is in anyone’s good books at the moment. The writing for him has seen to that. As for Regina, we are supposed to go along with this EQ storyline, which is insinuating that the evil in Regina is was still in her, therefore she could not be fully trusted and hence the split.
Now for Hook. It’s not about him not being allowed redemption because he’s male. For me, it’s about the fact that they chose a man with a history of murder, abuse and harrassment of women, in other words, a man who embodies toxic masculinity, and chose to make him the hero of their story. Now that they’ve finally realised that it bothers people, they’re trying to justify this by giving him easy opportunies to prove what a good guy he is. Take the case of Belle. It seems strange that she’d to Hook of all people for protection. She does have friends in Storybrooke, like Grumpy, who might’ve looked out for her. But no, she goes to Hook and shuns all modern conveniences like electricity and indoor plumbing to live aboard his ship. This whole scenario was nothing more than a soft pitch lobbed at Hook so that he could hit a home run. To use a corporate analogy, it reminds me of executives promoting a member of their boys’ club over more deserving candidates and then giving him a straightforward but high profile project to prove to everyone that he deserves his promotion.
From a Watsonian perspective, I might come to like Hook if he keeps up this good behaviour for a while longer. From a Doylist perspective, I’ll always resent the fact that A&E chose this particular character to devote so much care to writing, while killing off other characters (eg Robin) because they couldn’t be bothered, or systematically dismantling complex and much loved characters like Rumple and Belle.
I’m disappointed. The promo was intriguing but this makes it sound like a retcon and macguffin fest. Also, Golden Queen – WHY? Not only is she the daughter of the woman he once loved, she is the person who locked up his current love for 28 years! Has he forgotten that? Is it inconsequential to him? Is this supposed to be the straw that’ll break the hearts of all Rumbellers once and for all?
Rating: 6.5/10
General thoughts: I didn’t hate it, so it exceeded expectations right there.
Likes:
– The EQ. Highlight in this episode was her doing a Southern accent. I’m going to miss her so much when she’s gone!
Mixed:
– Jasmine and Aladdin. Their relationship is very confusing. It’s really coming across as Jasmine wanting something from him rather than anything romantic at this point.
– Golden Queen…I didn’t put this under ‘Dislikes’ because I’m so confused. WHY? Is there a point to this? Did Belle see? Is it just to show the EQ using her sexuality as a means of power? If so, get over it A&E – this trope about evil, hyper-sexualised females is from the Dark Ages and pretty darn annoying.
– Aladdin being happy to steal from people’s wallets, yet blaming himself for what happened to Agrabah when he doesn’t even know what happened to Agrabah! It’s hard to nail down what kind of person he is exactly.
Dislikes:
– Henry was flightier about his feelings for Hook this episode than he is with his feelings about magic. The EQ turned him against Hook awfully fast. As much as I liked that scene, I think it would have made sense for Henry to give Hook a chance to explain. Unless of course, he really disliked him. That would have been fine too, except that he seemingly forgave Hook everything and risked his life for him after hearing about how Hook killed his dad.
– How Nemo tried to recruit Hook after the pirate nearly murdered him.
– The harpoon and key macguffins.
– Aladdin’s accent. It’s really starting to grate now. Half the time I can’t understand what he’s saying, and the other half he reminds me of Will which is really distracting. Besides, it is SO incongruous to have a character from the Arabian Nights speaking in a cockney accent.
– Hook and Liam getting to resolve their problems so neatly and easily, when the process is so drawn out and painful for other characters on the show.
– Emma’s dress looked weird and out of character. They usually have her in a dress when they’re trying to convey that she’s not being herself in some way. As for the signifance of the red – could that be the Saviour’s symbolic colour? Emma wears the red jacket when she’s readying for action, and she was wearing it when she broke the dark curse. Regina was also wearing red when she broke the dark curse. Aladdin had his red hat last episode, and this episode he was wearing a red shirt. So…is Emma not being true to herself in some way by choosing to remain the Saviour?
Both Nemo and Liam did not die by the end of the episode! We’ve had too many Land of Untold Stories characters die this Season, so it was a nice change of pace. Things got to end on a positive note for those characters.
Well, Liam was dear Killian’s little bro, so OUAT was always going to give him a happy ending. It’s like how big Liam got to walk into the light despite seemingly never making amends for killing an entire ship’s crew for selfish reasons.
As for the flashbacks, I didn’t like them that much. Maybe it’s because I haven’t read ‘20,000 Leagues’ but I just didn’t get why Nemo was so keen to have Hook join his so-called family. Hook almost murdered him for talking back, and yet he treats him like his long lost son? Also, what was the deal with the key to TLUS also opening a door to the Mysterious Island? That came out of nowhere.
I actually didn’t mind that Liam 2.0 reappeared, but it seemed like the resolution to the brothers’ conflict in the present day came far too easily. If there’s anything the Stiltskins’ or the Mills’ stories have shown us, family wounds cut deep. Neal took ages to forgive Rumple, Regina and Zelena are still having problems and Emma took multiple seasons to start fully trusting her parents. While it is admittedly refreshing to actually have people fully heal their relationships, it’s more realistic and satisfying if they have to work on it for a while.
Destiny has always been a force in this show but so has free will.
I agree. Mostly free will is given reign, but certain things seem predestined – true loves getting together for example, or Merlin’s prophecies. My theory is that this is related to the prophecy of a boy being Rumple’s undoing. That was never resolved, and it could well be Morfetus. So this could be the fate Rumple is trying to cleave himself from.
