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Obviously, I can’t speak for anyone else, but it seems to me that one should not equate intellectual engagement with uncritical approval. There are many different ways to consume a media product, and not all of them fall along the lines of “like=will watch/dislike=won’t watch.” A bit of a false analogy, but lets take the news — another kind of media product. Just because I don’t like some of the things being reported on, or don’t like the particular political “spin” doesn’t mean I’m going to stop consuming the news. Or just because I find a text (broadly defined) problematic or offensive, doesn’t necessarily mean I will stop reading it — but I certainly don’t have to like it or feel the need to praise it.
This. This so much. I watch this show because i like discussing it. I like dissecting it. I like being critical of it. I like how it makes me think about what i want and expect out of my writing. It makes me think about character and how important i think that is, it makes me think about how important it is to show not tell because it does that so badly. This show being written this bad has improved my writing. It has made me think about the tropes that i don’t want to fall into. It has made me think about the structure and build of my arcs.
We have good critical discussions about character and plot because of this show. This, in my opinion, is a good discussion even if we disagree vastly on how we view the show. The discussion is of value, disagreeing peaceably is of value, so i continue to watch this show, so that i can continue to be part of the discussion.
[adrotate group="5"]The true dreams, visions, sleep curse visitation from the unborn, are all different things. I don’t really know what to say. I do think that the swanfire scene was really happening, sort of like in Harry Potter when Harry almost dies and sees Dumbledore in a true dream and they talk. Harry asks the question is this real or is it in my head and Dumbledore responded something like of course, it is happening inside your head, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real? A scene like that feels real to a fantasy world and it doesn’t cause any world building problems like some of the other things that happen on this show.
I do think that is different then Emma’s visions of the future, which don’t always come true, which also seem to be different then Rumpel’s visions of the future which do always come true. The unborn visiting Belle as an adult in the sleep curse, i just don’t know what that was except convenient to the plot. I can’t imagine anyone who was just watching this show and not looking up discussions and spoilers online would think that man was actually Rumpel and Belle’s baby. Part of me still questions it.
Maybe the Tiger Lily scene is just right at the end of the episode or her scenes are like the minor plot for this episode.
There are two separate issues here. On one hand, the writing on the show is inconsistent and illogical. On the other hand, Adam and Eddy changed their story, they are no longer writing their story, because the ABC execs told them to. The second thing is the reason that the writer changed their intended story. The first thing is the problem. The problem is that the writing is bad. They could have found a way to incorporate Hook into the show as Emma’s love interest in a way that would have made sense for her as a character, just like they could have found a way to incorporate Regina into the family in a way that would have made sense for Emma, Snow, and Henry as characters.
They didn’t do that. Instead of saying okay, we have to change our story, ABC is telling us to write a different story then we intended, so what can we do to Hook’s character for it to make sense that Emma, our protagonist, our new fairytale character, might date him. Then have Hook stop pursing her immediately, have Hook help people because it’s the right thing to do, have Emma and Hook become actual friends, have Hook stop making crass comments immediately, maybe have him change his clothes once in awhile.
They could have had Hook talk about the bad things he has done in the past that specifically harmed Emma. All of his behavior in Season 2 would have to be explained. Maybe, he had to maintain his villainy in front of Cora or she would have killed him. They definitely have to bring up and explain Hook selling Baelfire to Pan for protection. He should have stopped all of the creepy, possessive, behavior immediately. He can’t be throwing himself off of buildings to get Emma’s attention. He can’t be asking for kisses as rewards for helping save her dad’s life. He can’t be getting drunk and hitting on Tink because Emma might go on a date with Neal. It has been awhile since i watched the old episodes, but all of that should have stopped immediately if the show was well written because Emma is Emma.
Emma is someone who was hurt when she was young by what happened with Neal and August and getting pregnant and going to jail. Emma would not date Hook. It makes no sense characterwise that they are dating. Their relationship is shown to be toxic on screen and they have never had a true love moment on screen. I never said that Adam or Eddy agreed with me. I do think that on the show Emma and Hook will get married and make babies and all that stuff, but i think that is illogical and inconsistent and Adam and Eddy don’t get to decide what is or is not a toxic relationship. I actually would go straight to saying that their relationship is abusive, just because the writers write Emma as accepting of Hook’s actions, doesn’t make it not abusive.
Season 5B was not well written. Half of the characters didn’t interact with anyone of relevance to their lives. Cora interacting with Regina was the most interesting thing that happened there and that is hard to take because of what Cora did to Regina and everyone else she met and murdered. Hook interacting with his brother and Emma realizing Liam was shady was the second most interesting interaction.
They made up a new backstory with Snow and Hercules so they could do some Greek Mythology instead of having Snow interact with say her parents or even Cora who she murdered. We find out Milah has been hanging out in the Underworld, but she never meets Hook because, seriously, what would they do with that? The whole Henry wanting to bring Curella back so that Emma isn’t a murderer was ridiculous. Emma killed Curella in self defense to save her kid. That’s not murder. Also, why not have Emma interact more with Cruella, that might have been interesting.
Whatever happened with the people who were thrown into the river of lost souls? Milah and Aunt Em?
They didn’t do anything interesting with James or Gaston and they could have. Instead, they were just bumps in the road which gave no character development to the regulars. I don’t remember Charming do anything interesting except talking to the baby over the seance phone. The Red and Dorothy episode was random and very badly constructed because it focused on Snow and the Red/Dorothy plot was more of an afterthought so that the writers could get their LGBT check mark.
Then there was the end where Robin died protecting Regina, then Zelena uses the crystal on Hades. Yet, Robin is special extra he can’t be brought back to life just because and Hook is then brought special extra back to life by Zeus just because. At Robin’s funeral.
Season 5A and 4B were bad, but 5B wasn’t some well written masterpiece either. There was some better character moments for Regina, but there was so much that was missed out on. Snow, Charming, Emma, and Rumpel pretty much had no interesting interactions with anyone who they knew who died or who they had killed besides Emma’s true dream with Neal. It also dragged on forever because everyone knew Hook would live and Hades would die, so just do it already.
There were pictures floating around that showed the set chair with the actors names on them and one of them was the actor for Jafar. So he was on set. I am not sure what episode that was from.
Now people are saying that they might have been Vikings and not Lost Boys. Who knows.
Someone said that there people who looked like Lost Boys on set. Maybe there will be some sort of flashback on Neverland. With Tiger Lily and Tink there as well. Seems like a lot for an episode, who knows.
The problem is that it is not their story, not anymore. Adam and Eddy did change their show because of the fans. They intended to do swanfire. They pitched the show to Jennifer, before she signed on, before the pilot was filmed, they pitched Jennifer Morrison swanfire. That is fact.
Then in Season 2 something happened, the ABC execs interfered, that is fact stated by Adam and Eddy. The execs wanted more of Hook because he was attractive. Then the media got involved, asked about Hook, maybe because ABC was talking about him. Hook was never supposed to be on this show long term. All of the build in Season 1 and 2, all of the hints, were for swanfire. There was no captain swan in Season 2 and obviously not in Season 1. All of the set up for the show that Adam and Eddy created, their story was swanfire.
Also, bad writing is not based on whether or not i like what happened. It is based on whether or not the show satisfies the narrative build, whether or not the characters remain consistent, whether or not what the characters do is what they would actually do, whether or not the characters decisions based on who they are as people is what is pushing the story forward, whether or not the characters actually behave in ways that real mothers, wives, children would behave, and whether or not what is happening is consistent within the rules of the world the writers have created. This show fails all of those things. What happens on this show is inconsistent and random and that is why it is badly written.
There are things on this show that i like that are really badly written. I really like Emma and Regina’s friendship. It is terribly written and it makes no sense at all that they would be friends, but i like it. I don’t have a problem with anyone liking any part of what happens on this show. I just do think that it is badly written, because what happens is illogical and inconsistent.
Yeah, we knew that guy was the bar tender. I love that that means that Emma, Snow, and Regina might have scenes together as a group. I hope it is just them. That hasn’t happened in so long.
