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Yeah, with the “return to S1 feel” they keep saying. But, at the same time, even in S1 we had mini-arcs and while I’m sure the EQ will be the major threat (just like Regina was in S1) I’m predicting that we’ll have other characters causing issues (new ones, from Forgotten Character Island) for our SBers
Yeah, i agree. I think characters will cause issues. I just hope that Hyde is not a big bad. That there are a lot of many mini arcs or even villains that are just shown for one episode. It is really up in the air though. I have a hard time believing the writers are really going to do anything different because they constantly say they are going to but nothing really comes of it. I guess i just need more information at this time to really make a guess at what is going to happen.
[adrotate group="5"]Yeah, but Jekyll and Hyde can have context without having a centric. They also shouldn’t have an arc, in my opinion. It seemed like the producers were suggesting in interviews that there wasn’t going to be a villain arc. I don’t know either.
I don’t think there are going to be any Jekyll or Hyde episodes. I guess it depends on what you mean by that.
I really hope Regina does not date anyone in the next season. This show really needs to do less with the romance.
Right. Do they not want us to theorize or speculate? Do they just want us to sit back, numbly, and not think too hard about the show and plot and characters and just be TV-watching sheep??
This is the thing, though. The entire premise of the show, as S1 was set up, was about theorizing and speculating — outside of the Charmings, Regina, and Emma, who the other characters were and what their past had really been about was this exciting process of discovery. And then it turned out that many of the characters were actually combinations of fairytale characters (such as Rumple). So much of this show was based on being given the pieces, but not knowing how they fit together. At some point after S3, though, it stopped being that. Rather, new pieces were added, seemingly at random, and mostly through the kinship diagram from hell method which quickly got very very old. I think one way they could have gone, and that would have been so much more compelling, is to go the same avenue they did with Rumple (where he was also the Beast, and the Crocodile), but expand this to other characters. This would have given the main crew an opportunity to explore new aspects of their characters, and not overburden the show with random and ultimately irrelevant plotlines. It might have given them some space to work with characters they had exhausted by adding new dimensions/story elements (Robin comes to mind).
They did make a big mistake by not making other characters be multiple people. I became annoying at first that Rumpel was in too many stories. He was Rumpel, he was Cinderella’s fairy godmother, he was the beast. But it would have been less so if they also allowed other characters to be multiple people. They had Red be Red Ridding Hood and the Wolf. I think it was a huge mistake to not make Snow White be Robin Hood or at the very least a merry man. I think it was a mistake to not make Charming be King Arthur or one of the knights of the round table. I think there were a lot of hints to those two things that never lead anywhere.
Then in later seasons there is no attempt to hide who characters are. They dress exactly like they do in the cartoons. They just state who they are outright. There is no oh you meet a girl in the woods with red hair who is good with a bow, who might she be, it is just oh this is Merida.
Yeah, as far as i am concerned the writers are not writing their story anymore. They are writing some fanon/ABC story that is no where close to where they intended it to go originally. That is why it doesn’t make sense. That is why they can’t keep the details straight. They had this original intention and it fell apart because of ABC possibly pushing certain things and the producers reacting to the audience figuring things out by changing their original intention. It is like the characters are no longer their characters. With the removal of Bae it completely changed both Rumpel and Emma as characters. That has then effected the family and plot as a whole. Created this disconnect. It is a complete mess.
It is such a shame when writers feel the need to distort everything they’ve worked towards just because the cleverest of the fans might have read the clues correctly. That is what good foreshadowing is all about. Many fans correctly guessed that Neal was Baelfire and that Baelfire was the father of Henry. I’m glad that the writers of OUAT didn’t change that fact since it had been built into the narrative since season one. I remember they discussed being tempted to change that reveal at the time, but fortunately, they didn’t try to change the story to be just some random dude who got Emma Swan pregnant and then disappeared. At the time, I held A&E in high esteem for being creative and true to their original plan. They’d laid so much groundwork since the pilot, and JMo and Robert Carlyle both knew the real identity of Henry’s father and portrayed their respective characters with that foreknowledge. To have gone back and tried to change it would have been an utter disaster. Too bad the writers of OUAT later felt compelled due to pressure from Hook fans to kill off Baelfire. That is when I lost total confidence in their ability to be true to their original conception since they overtly changed it. They hit a major ‘reset button’ with the strong implication being they were going to go in a totally different direction that diverged radically from where the show had been previously headed the first 3.5 seasons.
I know. It is like oh we wrote this so well that people actually picked up on the hints we threw on there, they actually noticed our foreshadowing, we can’t have that. We can’t have our audience actually understand our product. They have to be confused and feel disconnected. I know when i know something is going to happen, Harry killing Voldemort, or Emma breaking the curse, it is so so so very satisfying to finally see it happen. To feel the weight of what was built all hing on one moment. It is not boring because i figure it out, it is so satisfying in all the right ways to see something you have been waiting for because you see the hints and then it happens. Then you see that Baelfire is Henry’s father.
Not, oh randomly Hook is a dark one too and Emma was never really evil. So why didn’t Hook act like the dark one? Why did Emma tell her family she was going to punish them? Why so many things that then feel disconnected and random and suddenly don’t mean anything? The same with the dark one origin story. Like really? That was it? How is Rumpel so old if there has only been a dark one for 500 years? Why does the sorcerer have a house in Storybrooke when he has been a tree for centuries?
It is seriously like a hundred things that are a mess because they are trying to surprise us now instead of trying to build a story, build a world, build characters. It is all about the surprise and that is what makes the show boring and feel dumb and it makes the endings completely unsatisfying because they build to one thing and then random hufflepuff guy kills Voldemort and you are like, uh that was dumb and doesn’t make any sense, why wasn’t the story about random hufflepuff guy if he was the heroine the whole time. This show is just a hot mess in so many ways.
Right. Do they not want us to theorize or speculate? Do they just want us to sit back, numbly, and not think too hard about the show and plot and characters and just be TV-watching sheep??
I know. You would think you would love for your viewers to be so invested that they are right there being like oh did you see that character talked about this. He mentioned Neverland. Oh Emma said Henry’s father was a fireman. Was that a hint? You would think you would love that investment. Instead, they reward our investment with trick writing, unsatisfying endings, just insanity.
Also, the whole idea that the audience figured it out so we have to change it way of writing is insane.
THIS. That recent EW (I think) interview they gave where Kitsis said basically just that made me both roll my eyes and head desk excessively.
It is an insane way of writing. The writers get upset because people figure out what is going to happen, so they change it. They then get upset that people don’t “get” the show, when really the show just doesn’t make sense because what you understand about the characters and their motivation should inform what happens. That is why we figure out what i going to happen. Then since we don’t get the show, they then feel the need to explain things by telling us instead of showing. Then you have nonsensical things being said like Regina and Hook are heroes when their behavior does not match that word in any way. Then we are like you keep using that word, it don’t think it means what you think it means. Then the writing just gets dumber and more inconsistent to prove what they are trying to sell, when really none of us buy it and it the failure began at oh they figured it out so we have to change it.
It is the worst kind of writing. It is insane. That is why the story and characters are inconsistent and the show just doesn’t make any sense anymore.
I agree with the lying about the changes they make. They should either not comment if they can’t deal with being honest or tell the truth. They should not pretend that things were planned out when they weren’t. That helps nothing at all. I don’t have a problem with there being some fluidity in a story, but you don’t throw out the purpose of your story because of some silly poll by people who are probably not even your target audience. I just don’t understand the lying about it. Like i could understand making a mistake, but then you own it, you don’t lie when anyone with some brains can see where the story was originally intended to go.
Yeah, as far as i am concerned the writers are not writing their story anymore. They are writing some fanon/ABC story that is no where close to where they intended it to go originally. That is why it doesn’t make sense. That is why they can’t keep the details straight. They had this original intention and it fell apart because of ABC possibly pushing certain things and the producers reacting to the audience figuring things out by changing their original intention. It is like the characters are no longer their characters. With the removal of Bae it completely changed both Rumpel and Emma as characters. That has then effected the family and plot as a whole. Created this disconnect. It is a complete mess.
I agree. Eddie and Adam have no business being show runners. They just have no self control. They are unorganized. They can’t keep details straight. Also, the whole idea that the audience figured it out so we have to change it way of writing is insane. You want your audience to know what is going on, not be thrown by random things happening that are not connected to where the show was building. That is one of the writers biggest problems. It is a completely insane way of writing. That is like oh people figured out that Harry Potter is going to kill Voldemort, that means we have to change it so that random hufflepuff guy kills Voldemort and it is a surprise. Then people read seven books waiting to see Harry kill Voldemort and then he doesn’t. Then everyone is disappointed. That is what happens on Ouat. The show built towards certain things, Emma and Neal working on their relationship, Rumpel making things right with his son, Emma doing actual evil as the dark one. The show builds these things and then they are trying so hard to cause a surprise that then they don’t go to where the proper end should be and then the end is just disappointing. It is absolutely terrible writing. It is completely insane. It fails the very basics of hitting the beats of an arc. It is just terrible.
