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I guess we have to agree to disagree because the way I see it, Hook is getting vilified because he was able to resist the darkness in the end? I’m sorry but I just do not understand that reasoning.
Once again, Hook didn’t choose to be the DO. Rumple did.
When in the end, when it matter the most, Hook made the sacrifice needed.
When Neal needed his father? When Belle needed her husband? Rumple would not do what it what he needed to. He couldn’t give it up.
Hook is not a good guy. He isn’t a hero. Yes, the writers do sometimes gloss over the things he has done, but they gloss over a lot of things characters have done. The difference is Hook doesn’t constantly brood over it, but neither does his simply embrace it.
[adrotate group="5"]We're all just stories in the end.
I want to start off by saying that at one point Rumple was my favorite character. I liked every character and pretty much still do, but Rumple I haven’t liked in a long long long time, which is probably a reason why I disagree with a lot of the anti Hook rhetoric. I actually think it’s this feud that divides the fans more so than CS vs SF.
Hook’s introduction did not put him in a favourable light. He was shown to be a bully who picked on those weaker than him eg pre-dark one Rumple, but he also continued this streak for a good decade eg dark one Rumple who he thought was a lowly beggar.
Personally I loved that he was introduced as someone who knew Rumple before he became the dark one and was seen as a rival to him. Don’t forget that later on, he admitted that we was in the wrong in this situation. He even stated that in this instance Rumple was the hero and Hook was the villain. Hook was introduced at a time I was beginning to lose interest in the show and his arrival is pretty much all that kept me watching until season 4, at which point I got tired of the Frozen storyline and just caught up on within the last couple of weeks.
I don’t like Rumpelstiltskin so I am very bias there. I don’t like his story, I don’t like how he is written, I don’t like his relationship with Belle. I don’t like a single thing about him. Which is a shame because he was once my favorite character. <del>I have an entire rant about him and how the writers pretty much destroyed my favorite Disney movie by making him the Beast. It kind of disgusts me actually.</del> My feelings are a little too intense to offer actual discussion so I will try not to speak too much about him.
Issues began to arise with Hook when he went after Belle. First in the flashback where he hits her so hard and knocks her unconscious just because she can’t help him then is about to kill her until Regina stepped in. Then the entirety of the Outsider where he shoots Belle over the town line so she’ll lose her memories just because he can’t hurt Rumple physically. At no point did Hook treat Belle as an actual person.
Forgive me, because it has been a very long time since I have seen those episodes so my memory is not the best on that. I do want to mention that Belle is one of my favorite characters, actually I adore pretty much every character they have introduced on this show besides the character-not-to-be-named. I was also very upset at the time for his treatment of Belle. I was angry, and I didn’t want to like Hook at the time, but at the same time, in a twisted way I understood why he was doing it and felt it was fitting with who Hook was and, honestly, who he still is in a way. He spent centuries trying to find the Dark Ones weekness to get his revenge. It consumed him and there was his opportunity to hurt the Dark One the way the Dark One had hurt him. This had because Hook’s entire life purpose so I understand why he did it.
Was it wrong? Yes. Is this one of his biggest flaws? Yes. But it’s part of the reason I like to watch Hook’s scenes. I also kinda want Belle and Hook to team up and destroy character-who-shall-not-be-named but I digress…
Going from season 2 into season 3, things were going well for Hook. He’d put his vendetta against Rumple to one side in order to help Henry. He was doing this for Baelfire etc etc. Then CS reared its ugly head and Hook’s character development went out the window. To cut a long story short, ever since season 3 Hook has been vering between to plotlines: CS and Revenge on Rumple. The problem is though, the two plotlines can’t work together. Either Hook has finaly let go of Milah thus enabling him to move on with Emma in which case he has no need to go after Rumple anymore, or Hook is still so cut up over Milah which is why he continues to antagonise Rumple that he can’t genuinely move on until he learns to let go of his revenge. He can’t have both because it’s contradictory but that’s what the writers seem to be doing and it just doesn’t work.
I certainly think that Hook can hold his grudge against said character and be in love with Emma. Hook and Milah didn’t move on from each other. Milah was taken from Hook by the Dark One-who murdered his son’s mother in front of the man who actually loved her by the way. Did I mention I’m not fond of that character? Hehe!
Obviously from my screen name I ship CS. Not going to lie, I really liked Neal and would have loved to see some father bonding with Henry, but before Hook I was bitter about what happened with August. I don’t dislike SF but I just didn’t care whether or not they ended up together. Once again, the only thing that kept me watching in season 3 was Hook pretty much. The biggest flaw of this show, in my opinion, is that it has amazing characters but the plots start out soooo good and then turn into a snooze fest. Neverland could have been a lot better than it was. Alas, the only thing that got me through it was Hook and, yes, CS.
Hook deliberately antagonises Rumple in 4A by blackmailing him, yet cries foul when Rumple gets the upper hand. He referred to Milah, the great love of his life who he’d spent centries trying to avenge, as “soiled”. As dark one Hook, he was just vile. Yet he suffers no consequences or even acknowledgement of his actions. As DO Hook, either has has to be held accountable for his actions like Rumple is, or if Hook is given a free pass because of the “darkness” then RUmple needs to be given a free pass as well otherwise it’s double standards.
I actually completely disagree with this. Even when I liked said character, he has always wanted power. His words. He wanted to be the dark one. Even when he was free from that ‘curse’ and could have actually started over, he went out of his way to be manipulative and conniving to get that power back.
Hook? Hook didn’t want it at all! Hook would have rather died than become the dark one because he knew he wouldn’t be able to remain his version of good. He was happy, he was in love, <del>and he was finally being a man he thought maybe his brother could be proud of</del>. I do think they rushed it in 5B. I wish we could have seen more of a struggle as Hook fought the darkness. Emma did, but Emma is the savior, which is why I think that she had an easier time fending off the darkness. She never really did become full on DarkSwan. But I think that was the amount of light magic in her.
But no, I do not think that Hook and Rumple can be compared here. One wanted to be the dark one, the other was forced into something he didn’t want and knew he couldn’t control, something he had hated for centuries.
Hook has had positive moments. His scene in the library in 4B with Belle where he tells her that despite what Rumple did, RUmple did genuinely love her was one of my favourite moments of that episode. Hook didn’t have to say that but he did because it was the right thing to do even if it didn’t gain him anything. Hook’s best scenes are with Charming and Charming alone because Charming doesn’t take any of his crap and Hook respects that. As has been pointed out, it seems a lot of Hook’s character development happens off screen but because we don’t see it, it looks like he’s just done a complete 180 for no reason other than to get in Emma’s pants. CS is not good for either Emma or Hook, at least not how it is currently being written. The writers need to give Hook more scenes with other character who aren’t Emma otherwise it makes him look obsessive.
I agree with most of this actually. I don’t want anymore relationship drama between Hook and Emma. I don’t want anymore talk of her walls and what-not. I want them to just be together so they can grow without that drama constantly being pushed to the forefront. Hook and Regina have great scenes together. I love that they antagonize each other so much. I want to see more Hook with Regina, Charming, Henry, and even Belle. I think that would be the best thing moving forward for his character and the show.
We're all just stories in the end.
I’m new to these forums, so forgive me if I’m wrong but is this discussion still “going on”? Or has it been moved elsewhere, or does no one want to actually talk about Hook anymore?
Maybe I’m of the unpopular opinion here but I have and do enjoy this character immensely. I’ve binged through seasons 4 and 5 the last few weeks and now that I am caught up I think I can actually say Hook is my favorite character. I’ve loved him from the very beginning. It seems a lot of people want to put him in either the Hero or Villain category and I just don’t understand why? He’s perfect being the morally grey character who wants to be good but also wants to give in to his pirate nature. To me, the fact that he went to an abandoned boy, to ‘failure’ as a young man, then to Naval officer, then to heinous pirate out for revenge, to lovestruck man struggling to find where he fits in a world that seems to draw a hard line between good and bad fascinating.
Maybe I’m out of line in my assessment and have been watching the show too quickly. I don’t go back and rewatch and over analyze things, but I think Hook is acharacter the show needs in order to not be stale in characterizations. He struggles the way a normal person would struggle. Nothing is strictly good or evil with him and I hope it stays that way. A lot of season 5 bothered/bored me but his struggle kept me viewing. Is there anyone still around on this forum who still shared this opinion, or has everyone jumped off the Jolly Roger?
We're all just stories in the end.
