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I think what annoyed people about Hook was that Hook was asking Emma for a kiss almost as payment for saving Charming’s life. Yes, Emma could’ve said no and walked away, however, at the same time, Emma kind of owed Hook because he saved her father’s life. Whilst a CaptainSwan kiss was inevitable, it was the circumstances in which that kiss came about. It was Hook asking for the kiss and reasoning that he should get it because he saved Charming’s life.
They could’ve done it where Emma gives Hook a thank you kiss and it turns into something more. Emma kisses Hook’s cheek, he turns his head to face her then she kisses his lips and it becomes the kiss we saw. You can get all the consequences of the kiss without Hook basically bargaining for it.
Also, people may feel that Hook is taking advantage of Emma at the current time. Her son’s been kidnapped, she’s in a place she doesn’t know. Emma’s in a vulnerable position. Hook is in the more “powerful” position. He has no emotional ties to Henry (If the kid died, it would be sad but it Hook’s world wouldn’t be torn apart unlike Emma’s and Regina’s) Hook knows Neverland the best, he knows what Pan is like. People tend to dislike when a person in a perceived “weaker” position is seemingly being taken advantage of by a person in a perceived more “powerful” position. I think that is the main issue with the circumstances surrounding the CaptainSwan kiss rather than the kiss itself.
Well lets stop right there. Hook did not start the kiss. He was kidding around when with the whole routine. He was just teasing Emma. What he expected from Emma was what she did at the beginning of the episode, he would say something, she would roll her eyes and walk away.
When the kiss started Hook was shocked, he did not expect that Emma would actually kiss him. He wasn’t asking for any payment.
If anyone is weak in this situation is Hook because Emma’s the one that came off looking the dominate person. Even ordering Hook after the kiss and him saying “As you wish”(Hello Princess Bride reference).
Side note on The Princess Bride: It’s really interesting how JMO is now starting to say she would want to play Princess Buttercup. Emma smiled after he said “as you wish”. Also I’m pretty sure Emma’s tattoo is that of a Buttercup flower. We already know that Hook is inspired by Westley/Dread Pirate Roberts.
Now continuing on, actually it wasn’t because of the payment that Emma kissed him. She kissed him because he challenged her. He said “perhaps you’re the one whom couldn’t handle it” and she got a I’ll show you face and bam she did it. What she didn’t expect was how much emotion was behind it.
Whilst it’s true that Hook isn’t JUST trying to get into Emma’s pants, as evidenced by the truthfulness of his confession in the echo caves, it would be fair to say that Hook is more emotionally involved in the “relationship” than Emma is. Emma’s at the “I may like you” stage whilst Hooks at the “I love you, let’s be together” stage.
I’m not saying she’s full on in love with Hook but she definitely felt feelings in that kiss from herself. This isn’t just one-sided. Sure Hook is in a much more place then Emma but I expected that would happen. I do agree with the stages.
I think the shot of Snow is her realising that the kiss meant more to Hook than it did to Emma and what that could mean. Emma is confused about her feelings for Hook. Whilst it is true that the kiss may have meant something to Emma if she is talking about it, Hook and Emma aren’t on the same wavelength. Emma doesn’t know how she feels about Hook, whilst Hook is at the “I love you” stage. Hook is more emotionally invested then Emma at the moment. Also, lets not forget that in Season 1, MM was involved in a triangle with David Nolan and Kathryn. In fact, MM was in Hook’s position (2 people in love with the same person) and MM got burned. Before the affair, when David (Emma) didn’t have his memory, He had a connection to MM (Hook) then Kathryn (Neal) David’s old love showed back up on the scene and David got his memory back and chose Kathryn which broke MM’s heart. That shot of Snow is her having sympathy for Hook and the position he’s about to find himself in, not that she’s suddenly deciding he’d make a great son-in-law.
I wasn’t saying she now realizes that Hook and Emma are true love or anything. I was just stating that she had it wrong. She had Hook all wrong and she had the kiss all wrong and that was the moment she realized that.
Also tie in with her past with Ariel and Hook was doing the same thing that Ariel did to her. Chose her(a friend) over a chance with her true love and this was even confirmed in the next episode when they classified Neal as the friend Hook chose over his chance with Emma.
Yep I also agree with you that Snow was seeing herself in Hook because she was in Hook’s shoes now, and she could easily understand what he was saying, because she’s experienced it and Snow is a warrior of everything that Hook was representing in that confession. Hope and believe which as Snow said in the episode is always the beginning of true love.
Getting Rumple to drop a deal is a big thing. Remember Neal has said himself that he’s seen what Rumple’s done to people that have broken deals with him in Manhattan. At this point Rumple hasn’t specified what deal he was angling for, he could’ve asked for anything. It could have been something that compromised Emma’s integrity (like “kill the blue fairy or I’m not making the cure”). Neal was acting on Emma’s behalf there, ensuring that she didn’t “owe” his father anything. Just because Neal didn’t necessarily risk his life like Hook did doesn’t mean that his contribution doesn’t matter as much as Hook’s. Neal has ensured that Rumple will make the cure for Charming no matter what. If Neal had said nothing and let Rumple make the deal, Emma or Charming may have disagreed to the deal which could have resulted in Rumple saying he wasn’t going to make the cure. Charming would then die.
Not when Neal is the one that interferes because Neal knows inside that Rumple is trying to do what’s best for him and he’s gonna do what he wants in the end instead of the selfish thing. Plus Neal has Pandora’s Box so there wasn’t really a threat in what he told to Rumple.
I was not dismissing what he did I was just saying that saying that Hook is not a hero for what he did and Neal is when Rumple is the one that suggested the elixir and Neal just told his father no is not okay. Disregarding everything Hook did is not okay.
HENRY is THE MOST IMPORTANT person to Emma. If you’re going to bond with anyone, THAT’S WHO you need to bond with. To be fair to Hook, he hasn’t had chance to bond with Henry yet, and he is at an automatic disadvantage. Emma doesn’t care if someone is best buddies with her parents or not, if they can’t get on with Henry, then there is no chance of that relationship continuing.
Henry IS the most important person and Hook hasn’t even had a chance to interact with him you’re absolutely right. However, if Neal is supposed to have longevity I would expect him to have relationships with her family as well. Charming even which they had a chance but have given that to Hook and that is telling. This bromance between Charming and Hook is not gonna just disappear especially when they’ve basically stated they see each others brothers in each other. Literally a BROmance.
Thankfully though thanks to spoilers we are gonna see Hook with Henry soon.
Hook told Neal about the kiss so Neal knows about it. The triangle began when Emma believed Neal to be dead whilst it was revealed he was alive. The love triangle tropes are in play.
Yes but the typical cliche when it comes to triangles is not knowing about the kiss, it’s seeing it and seeing a reaction.
Hook being constantly in the background of SwanFire scenes could suggest that he is jealously watching Emma and Neal. It could suggest an over possessiveness of Emma, Hook wants to keep an eye on her at all times, etc.
He doesn’t look angry nor jealous in those shots though at all. He looks very sad and heartbroken. He’s not happy by any means but he’s not upset. If he was angry or rolling his eyes then I would agree with you but that did not happen.
The camera never panning to Neal’s reaction could suggest that Neal doesn’t feel the need to keep an eye on Emma or watch her interactions with Hook like a hawk. Whilst Neal interrupting the CaptainSwan scene is a triangle trope (The third person interrupts a “moment” between the other two) it was less about Neal doing it because he thought “They’re having a moment, I’d best go interrupt it” and more “Let’s go get the shadow so we can save Henry and get out of here”
The theme from Hook and Emma’s kiss was playing during the scene and then stopped when Neal shouted off screen “hey guys”. It was definitely a triangle trope.
Emma clearly said that the only person that mattered right now was Henry. BOTH men are on pause until Henry is safe back in Storybrooke. Once that happens then CaptainSwanFire will start gaining momentum
Hook’s on pause until then, but Neal’s scene didn’t come off that way.
Then of course you have to factor in Tink, Tink and Bae looked way too happy to see each other and she definitely looked much more happy to see him then Hook.
Alas though all we have are theories until Tink’s history with both guys is revealed. Though I think it’s obvious based on Hook’s confession that he and Tink did not have a romantic past because if they did then the bridge would not have formed since the secret of his confession was before Emma he had never believe he could move on from Milah.
Neal on the other hand was 14. He could have had a crush on her but that’s just guesstimate work. We won’t know anything until her background is revealed.
[adrotate group="5"]She references the stupid claim that Hook wants to get into Emma’s pants, that’s all I need to know.
I won’t be reading anymore because how can anyone claim that’s all Hook wants after the cave made him confess his deepest darkest confession and if he wasn’t telling the truth the cave would not have worked? Clearly the confession in the cave dismisses the ridiculous argument that all Hook wants is a fling. Milah was NOT a fling and if Emma is the first person since Milah to make Hook believe he can love again then it’s NOT a fling with Emma.
Nuff said about that.
I’m sorry Chimera but the only time there has NOT been a scene with Neal and Emma that cut to Hook was the sequence where he told her that if Henry was the best thing they had then they did alright. Mind you I’m talking recent, as in this season. I am not referring to anything else.
In Ariel, every scene cut to Hook. When they hugged it cut to see Hook’s reaction placing emphasis on it, same with the shot of Hook after Neal told Emma he wouldn’t stop fighting for her.
In Dark Hallows, Neal interrupted Hook and Emma’s moment. Which mind you had their theme playing in it(the kiss theme), until Neal interrupted then the music stopped. Hook has never interrupted a Neal moment.
This is not interpretation these are facts.
There has been MANY opportunities for Hook to be inserted in as an obstacle for Neal and Emma, but that hasn’t happened. They put it all in Hook’s hands and Hook chose his friend.
He’s not the obstacle, out of any I would say Neal is. Just from how he was introduced back into the group by Pan and literally placed in a box.
Again though I ask if Neal is supposed to be Emma’s true love then why isn’t he getting the bromance with Charming instead of Hook? Why doesn’t he share scenes with anybody else Emma cares about except Henry?
That seems like a weird thing to do, why give the bromance with Charming to Hook and literally go so far as to state that they remind each other of their long lost brothers?
Also I read that person’s review of Good Form and she stated that Pan ships SF. Well isn’t it tradition for the villains to split apart the couples? Which is what Pan did to Hook and Emma, and then threw a wrench immediately after the kiss to tell Hook Neal is alive and to leave it up to him to decide? Wouldn’t that mean he’s trying to tear apart Emma and Hook, which is the cliche of how villains work on OUAT?
Can I just say that I’m gonna present this is a very equal matter so to speak. I’m really not qualifying this as a triangle because well the episodes are not perceiving this POV and also the scene with the lighter was made to make fun of it and Emma chose Henry as she should.
My first piece of business I have is with the people whom say that Hook only saved Charming to get into Emma’s pants while Neal saved David’s life with no ulterior motives.
If anyone has this POV I’m about to really lay one out.
Hook saved Charmings life, point blank period. Charming would be dead now if it was not for Hook. Hook saved Charming’s life not to get into Emma’s pants(that argument REALLY pisses me off) but because he did not want to see her lose anybody else. The way he did with Liam. He risked his life including a very tall bush full of dream shade in order to get the water for Charming. After saving his life and getting back to camp Hook wants to stop Charming from revealing the fact that he saved his life. He saved Charming’s life selflessly and he didn’t want anyone to know what he did, hence why when before David made the toast Hook tried to stop him. Kind of hard to try to “get into someone’s pants” if the person doesn’t know the heroic thing you did.
Meanwhile not trying to diminish what Neal did but Rumple is the one that offered the elixir. All Neal did was make sure that his father do it without any strings attached. Not really risking his life or anything because he had Pandora’s box after all. Just told Daddy not to put any deals in this deed.
Now can I just say 2 things I want to bring up.
Well for one the Hook/Emma relationship has been blooming very much this whole season. I mean look at where they are now. She’s looking to him for information(even though Neal and Rumple are present), she’s looking to him for belief, and she’s even trying to get him to open up about what happened to Liam.
To say that Hook only wants to get into Emma’s pants especially AFTER the confession in the cave is forgive me but delusional thinking. His confession was about the fact that before Emma came along he never believed he could move on from Milah.
In the last episode some did not like when Hook said the thing about Neal “being a friend”. The way I interpreted this was a confirmation parallel to the events from the last episode with Ariel. In case people were confused, Ariel chose her friend over her chance at true love, the same way Hook did in the cave even knowing that confessing his feelings would lead her to the man that he believed was her true love. That was the intention of that shot to Snow during the confession. She was realizing right then and there that she had it wrong about him and she also had it wrong about Emma and Hook’s kiss and relationship.
Mary Margaret said herself in S1 “if it was nothing, we wouldn’t be talking about it”, Emma dismisses the kiss as just a kiss. Yet wants to talk to MM about it? Clearly that means it meant something, despite Emma’s claims. If it was nothing she wouldn’t talk about it. Emma needed MM at that time, and not Snow.
My 2nd point is this, why if Neal is gonna be Emma’s true love isn’t he sharing scenes with anyone remotely important to her aside from Henry. Where is his developing relationship with Snow and Charming? I’m not seeing any of that, I mean when Neal came back would have been the perfect time for Charming and him to bond? Instead they give this huge bromance to Hook and Charming even going so far as to pretty much confirm that they see their brothers in each other. That is huge.
This triangle is weird. I was expecting the cliche stuff but I’m not sure I can even call this a triangle, I mean it’s not even.
The kiss was not because of Neal, Neal did not see the kiss. The typical triangle cliches did not happen.
Pan spent the entire episode testing Hook and trying to tear apart Emma and Hook even going so far as to reveal to Hook that Neal is alive and to put him to the test. Tearing apart Emma and Hook. As Pan said in this past episode ” a hero needs to be tested”, and as Hook told Emma, Pan gave him a test, many tests.
When Neal and Emma share a scene Hook’s in the background looking at them but he doesn’t interrupt them. They do this shot purposefully, and it takes the intimacy out of the equation and puts the focus on the person witnessing it. Even when they reunite they shoot to Hook whom is dead in the middle of the shot while the Charmings are on the side.
When Hook and Emma have shared scenes, the camera has never shot to Neal showing his reaction. Neal has interrupted a scene though, like the one in episode 7. Typical triangle cliche-ness right there, but when Emma and Neal shared there scene it wasn’t really about them. It was Neal perhaps admitting that maybe Henry was the best thing they had and he’s okay with that.
IDK this doesn’t seem like much of a triangle yet, but perhaps it’s on pause or at least Hook is until they Henry back and they’re safe in SB.
I don’t really think this has anything to do with Neal. I mean I’m sure we’re gonna come up with so many scenarios until the curse is actually revealed and the context but I still don’t think this has anything do with Neal. MJR has not been spotted filming anything, nor is he in the city nor has he been sited at all.
I wouldn’t get too attached to this theory.
I saw the stills and [s] Hook isn’t seperated. He’s with Emma, Neal and Rumple when they go to the camp to get Wendy. They’re the only 4 there.[/s]
I think its huge that Pan is trying to tear apart Hook and Emma, that’s the big bad always does with true love couples and Neal IS the obstacle this episdoe made that clear.
Emma and Hook are Once’s interpretaion of Buttercup and Westley a true love couple between a pirate and a princess especially they confirmed the shoutouts to that were intentional and basically confirmed they’re Westley and Buttercup.
Okay guys I’m gonna give you two reasons why this episode IMO has basically confirmed CS as true love. BTW how amazing and romantic was that music playing. I saw some haters celebrating when the sneak peek came out that there was no music well AH you were wrong there was.
1. The villain is getting in the way. This is traditional true love storytelling. The big bad is always going to get in the way of the true loves and try to steer them away from one another. The villain will go manipulation tactics to try to get in between them and yet even then Hook did the honorable thing. Regina did this to Snowing for YEARS on end and in both situations the villain is the rival of the other. Hook and Pan are enemies in the tale the same as Snow White and The Evil Queen.
2. NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS if you were not going to have a couple be true love would you basically not only shout out but confirm that they are Once’s Buttercup/Westley from The Princess Bride. An iconic true love coupling. The writers and actors have also confirmed the shoutouts to The Princess Bride are completely 100% intentional. So by that interpretation we can just outright state that Hook loves Emma. “As you wish” in TPB was what Westley said to Buttercup and it meant I love you. This comparison in and of itself is huge and no one can argue it.
Nah after this episode I’m pretty certain Hook’s gonna find out first about Charming being poisoned because he knows dreamshade well and I’m sure he knows of a cure. Though it’s very likely it will be very hard to get.
Agree this episode was perfect and if anyone’s still in denial about the parallels which have NOT stopped since the introduction last season or the storylines then there ridiculous.
I see people saying the Hook/Emma scenes from the last night came out of the blue. Um yeah to someone whom has made it their mission to deny CS since the get go and has been in denial about everything this entire time.
Those scenes last night did NOT come out of the blue at all.
Also The Captain Swan fandom is even bigger than it was last season and that is something amazing indeed. 🙂
This episode was perfect for us in every way and I’m very confident to say that Hook and Charming’s bromance like Charmings with the dwarves will deepen since I’m very sure he will be the first to find out about Charming’s injury.
Likely he will also be the one to cure him since he likely knows what the antidote is.
