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My two main issues with the episode and the show in general are these: 1. We were told that the only way to get to our land was via the dark curse yet over the course of the seasons, we’ve been shown numerous ways to travel between worlds. It kind of undermines the whole premise of the show.
I agree with you on this point. I’ve found it very frustrating how the show constantly contradicts the rules it sets up for itself. Oh no this can never be done unless (you know) the plot calls for it. I also have trouble seeing where the show is going to go from here. The history of the DO is something that needed to be explored and it certainly allows for us to see different facets of the characters personalities. But once the darkness is defeated, what then?
At the show’s inception the goal was to break the curse and go back home. Now there is no such goal. Since S3 it’s been all about fighting off the evil that just happens to cross the path of the heroes. I’m not sure what else there is left to explore, unless (of course) yet another villain from the Disney catalog or otherwise decides to make an appearance.
[adrotate group="5"]Writing this without reading the other replies. If I end up repeating what others have said, my apologies. minus points for: -Merlin telling young Emma that bad things with good intentions leads to terrible things/darkness/whatever it was. If this is true, then perhaps Snow should have been able to walk through that door to get to Glinda, unless of course her heart was healed of all the bad things that she had done until that point? And what about self-protection and the protection of others? I really don’t like where they are going with this. -Emma starting off the pit of gloop. Rumple didn’t start off this way, so why should she? (Temporary theory: DO that start off redeemed (Mr Gold) or the love incarnate (Emma) end up back in the gloop as is the only thing that is strong enough to convert them?). -Why is the WW needed for the wand? Regina is not entirely ”white magic” so surely her inclusion would tip the balance towards evil? -WHY DID EMMA TURN EVIL AT ALL? She is supposed to be pure love/white magic incarnate right, and Snowing removed the darkness from her? Perhaps she cannot stay good, and be influenced by outside forces (dark magic) or life experiences???? Not happy with…. -Henry seeming to have more respect for Emma, who was the DO and in a different realm (because he didn’t want to change the story), than Regina and went off with Hook to break out the WW. Maybe I misunderstood? What I liked…. JM’s performance as the trainee dark one. (Not sure about her as the actual dark one, though). Interesting that the dagger was part of Excalibar. Liked Merida’s performance (but not her inclusion). Question 1 Last time the crew ended up back in EF, they landed in their full costume, long hair and all. It didn’t happen this time, nor did it happen to Emma and Hook when they fell through the portal. Is the something about the curse that does that to them, returning to their original state? Part of the ”undoing?” Question 2 I don’t understand why Emma couldn’t have asked for help catching another wisp. Was there a reason I didn’t catch?
I’ll address a few of your questions since I’m pressed for time right now:
About Emma turning dark: Yes, Snowing did remove the darkness within her, but remember in the season 4 finale she was consumed by the darkness that was in Rumple’s heart from being the dark one. So she has light in her heart but she once again has darkness, giving her the capacity to be evil.
Question 1
My take on this is that the last time they went back to the EF it was through another curse that had the capacity to recreate their wardrobe, perhaps. This time around it was just a portal so I don’t think it had the power to change their wardrobe.
Question 2
I’m not sure why they didn’t address just getting another whisp for Emma. My guess is that whisps aren’t exactly very common considering their power, so more than likely they’re just isn’t another one available.
Just my two cents.
Now that I have seen the entire episode here are my thoughts:
Favorite Dialogue:
“Your turn” – Lancelot
“Give it a rest, guyliner.” – Regina
“You can still give birth without a tongue.” – Regina
Like the most:
RumpleDO – I prefer fairy-god rumple, but I digress. He gave the episode a very pyschlogical thriller type feelRegina’s new zingers – obviously
The dwarves standing up for themselves and coming along to Camelot – It’s about time they got some more screen time
Merida – For thr most part. Her arrival was kind of forced but I found her enjoyable
Liked the least:
Robin and Zelena discussing the conception of Zelena’s child – Blech! We know what happened, we know it was without consent, please for the love of all that is good writers do not discuss this again
Regina shotgunning the anti-magic cuff onto Zelena – Congratulations on moving the plot along writers, but no???
Hook’s heart stealing potion – See above. Also, plot hole!
Ending – For once can we have a season where people actually know what has happened for a change?
Blue – Blue, honey your time has passed. You’re better off actually being Mother Surperior at this point.
I came home early … so I am here and getting ready for my night watching ONCE UPON A TIME … so excited. . .
Glad you can join us @nonnie. I’m Irvin by the way, nice to meet you.
GREETINGS IRVIN … glad to meet you and hope you enjoy your time here…. . .
That’s the plan.
Since it was revealed that Merlin is the Sorcerer (and there’s a good chance we’re going to see Camelot and other Arthurian legends this fall) I thought it might be nice to gather some information about the original sources since A and E like to pull from the legends before twisting them. A bit of an upfront confession; I am by no means an Arthurian expert. I am drawing mostly from what I do know based on readings of original source material and a lot of popular culture references–like T.H. White and Marian Zimmer Bradley–but that’s how A and E work, so bare bones though it may be, it’ll be pretty useful. Maybe if @SirMedrut comes along, he can fill in some blanks since he seems to be our Arthurian expert? Arthurian Legends: People, Places, And Things Arthur: King of Camelot though early texts, like Geoffrey of Monmouth’s telling, have him as the King of All England, Norway and Gaul (which seems highly unlikely in the historical reality). The most popular tales about Arthur are the romances which introduced his knights, his round table, his Queen, and various quests. Arthur is believed to be the son of Ygrain and Uthor Pendragon, begat in a moment of deception when Uthor was so enamored of the Lady Ygrain that he asked the wizard Merlin to transform him into Ygrain’s husband in order to seduce her. In some tales, Arthur’s half-sister is Morgan le Fay (and if you’ve read Bradley, this sibling relationship is given quite a bit of weight) and the two have a highly contentious relationship and in many popular re-tellings Mordred is their offspring. The Disney movie that most of us have seen is based in large part on T.H. White’s “The Once and Future King” and there Arthur’s history is fleshed out a bit more: as a baby he was spirited away from his parents and raised by Sir Ector and tutored by Merlin in how to be a good king (and Merlin calls him Wart). He becomes known as the true king when he pulls the Sword Excalibur from the stone. Merlin: A Wizard of the highest order who trains Arthur in how to be a good king and various life lessons, normally taught by turning Arthur into various animals (to and fro, stop and go, that’s what makes the world go ’round). His traditional background is as half human, his father being an incubus. It’s interesting that some tales have Merlin as a villain, given his only half-human status. Bradley’s account for instance doesn’t necessarily cast him as a villain, but as someone who is trying to keep his people’s faith in tact in the growing and overwhelming Christianity. He can be a sometime prophet but is often seen more as a sage adviser to King Arthur. In some cases, and in the popular 1990s made for TV movie “Merlin,” he is in love with Nimue who betrayed him and, again, in some cases is responsible for his death. Morgan le Fey: “A witch!” or enchantress in traditional male-dominated re-tellings, who gets a bit of a revamp in the Bradley telling (I’m fairly fond of Bradley and think everyone should read ‘Mist of Avalon’) in which she is a sorceress (without the negative connotations) who is watching her world be overtaken by Christianity. As stated above, often written as the half sister of Arthur, sharing the same mother, the Lady Ygrain, though her father was Gorlois. There are a lot of different tellings that A and E could play with when it comes to Morgan le Fay, such as her supposed unrequited love for Lancelot and hatred for Guinevere, her apprenticeship under Merlin, her training with Vivien in Avalon. If they chose to go the traditional route that she is Public Enemy #1, then it’s possible she might turn out of the be the Black Fairy as so many of theorized. Guinevere: wife of King Arthur and secret lover of Lancelot. Everything a romantic leading lady should be: beautiful, charming, serene (unless you read Bradley and she’s a bit of an agoraphobic shrew who’s Christianity is constantly at odds with Morgan’s paganism…). There are some very popular stories about her like her abduction by King Melwas which casts Guinevere in a Persephone-type of role. But obviously her most popular story is of her love affair with Lancelot, Arthur’s friend and knight. It’s possible that OUAT has already hinted at this when Lancelot appeared in Season 2 and Lancelot mentions leaving his country over a woman he loved, in a flashback with Snow. The Lancelot/Guinevere love affair is said to be the downfall of Arthur’s Kingdom. Lancelot: A knight of Arthur’s round table and champion. He is supposed to be portrayed as the most perfect knight, though one that gives into his love for Guinevere and betrays his King. In later legends, Lancelot is associated with the Holy Grail and the quest for finding the cup of Christ, though early stories don’t tie him to this quest, despite his very Christian portrayal. He is often called Lancelot du lac (of the lake) because he is raised by the Lady of the Lake, Viviene. Lancelot himself is married to Elaine, daughter of the Fisher King, and together they conceive Galahad, one of the very few knights who is allowed to find the Holy Grail (because of super piety, ect). Mordred: Most commonly, the son of Arthur of Camelot either by Morguase (Arthur’s sister) or Morgan le Fey (again, his half-sister). He is conceived as being treacherous, opportunistic, and an enemy of Arthur alongside his mother, Morgan. In one of the most famous Arthurian retellings, Le Morte d’Arthur, Mordred knows about Lancelot and Guinevere and plans to use it against Arthur. Mordred and Arthur meet at the Battle of Camlann where Arthur kills Mordred but not before Mordred delivers a deathly blow to Arthur in return. This is the death of Arthur and he is taken to Avalon, in many cases by Morgan le Fay, interestingly enough. Might be worth noting that in some cases Arthur doesn’t really die but is simply taken to Avalon and everyone is just waiting for his return, making Arthur a bit of a messianic figure. Camelot: the castle and court of King Arthur. Basically, utopia or at least as romantic as one can cast a realm. If you think of Arthur as a messianic figure and “chosen by God to unite all England” then Camelot is really his paradise/heaven. It crumbles and breaks apart because of Lancelot and Guinevere. Avalon: An rather mystical island and heavily associated with the pagans and Morgan le Fay. It is often a place out of time and disconnected from the “real” world. It figures heavily in Bradley’s “Mists of Avalon” where it is the last refuge for Morgan and her people. The Holy Grail: the ultimate Arthurian quest object. The Grail was the cup Jesus and his disciples drank from in the Last Supper and later was used by Joseph of Arimathea to catch Christ’s blood the cross and has since become one of the most sought after Christian artifacts of all time as well as one of the most mysterious since it is believed to hold some sort of power. Many tales are told about Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table who go off on a quest to find the Grail. Only a few knights are allowed to find the Grail, however, including Galahad, the son of Lancelot. The Grail has already been hinted at in S2, “Lady of the Lake,” during Snowing’s first wedding before Lancelot. It should be noted that whoever goes after Emma to find her–Hook, Charming, Regina, Henry, ect–they are themselves going on a quest to find a sacred object (literally: the savior) and thus we could make an analog between Emma and the Grail itself. Excalibur: the sword of King Arthur that he supposedly pulled from the stone to signify that he was the rightful King. In other versions of the Arthurian tale, however, the sword is presented to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake. I’d wager that A and E will take a more traditional route and keep it as the sword in the stone, especially if they tie in the Disney movie. There are some magical properties associated with Excalibur–I believe it blinded Arthur’s enemies at one point. The scabbard is also believed to be powerful. In “The Death of Arthur” the sword is thrown back into the Lake and caught by the Lady of the Lake before vanishing. The Round Table and its Knights: The group of Knights sworn to King Arthur at Camelot. The Round Table was thought up so that no knight would feel above or below the other, thus causing rivalries and jealousies. These knights of the round table went with Arthur on quests, like to find the aforementioned Grail. Some knights are more popular than others, for whatever reason: Lancelot, Galahad, Gawain, Gareth. Obviously there is a lot more I could put here, but this seems like a fairly decent start. Anyone got anything they want to add?
Thank you for the crash course on the Arthurian universe. I was kind of nervous that S5 might not be as enjoyable for me because I didn’t know anything about Camelot. Hopefully this will make things a bit easier to understand.
Welcome aboard the Forums @IrvinZ!!!!!! I’m WickedRegal, One of the Spoiler & Interview Snatchers of the Forums, Gif Mistress, and also one of, if not the most devoted Evil Regal of the Forums! #AllHailRegina #OutlawQueen #RegalBeliever #WickedSisters I can’t wait to hear your thoughts and perspective on a show that has brought us together! Though we all may seem like we’re madder than the Mad Hatter about our shows, that’s the unique and beautiful thing of being a Oncer in these forums….we’re ourselves, we love each other, and we love our madness!
Thank you dearie. I love having gifs at my disposal to use during discussions. Would you mind if I ask you for some in the future?
Welcome dearie. And you watched season 3 without seeing any of the previous seasons? That must have been difficult lol but yeah, welcome here to the madness that is the OUAT fandom. Don’t worry…we aren’t as crazy as we seem.
Season 4, actually. But yes, watched the whole first half without watching any of the previous seasons. Honestly, I still found it quite enjoyable. Thanks for the warm welcome and I’m looking forward to the (alleged) madness. 🙂
Welcome to the forums! I (and @Matt who’s currently off traveling) run the joint. Let me know if you need anything.
Thanks! Will do!
Not sure if anyone has seen this yet. But here’s a screenshot with Henry and his mystery crush.
Here is the youtube link
Skip to 1:39 to see Henry and the mystery girl
