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If Zelena made it so that Regina was never born.
-There would’ve been no one to create the curse. Rumple wouldn’t have taken the risk of Zelena taking his heart.
-Storybrooke would’ve never existed. The darlings would’ve carried out Pan’s orders to adopt henry. Pan would be living, immortal. Henry would be dead.
Then again Zelena wants to change the moment Cora gave her up. Cora may have not become royalty. Queen Eva would be alive and Snow would’ve grown up with a happy family. She and Charming would’ve raised Emma. Pan would’ve had to manipulate things for Emma to meet Bae to have Henry to take that heart. He would’ve had to find another way to have Emma leave the enchanted forest to find Neal. Henry would be dead.
[adrotate group="5"]1) Rumple gave Regina the mirror to send Cora to Wonderland. So he always knew where she was. Sending the letter to her probably wouldn’t have been a problem.
2) I think Rumple was just so angry with Cora for dishonoring their agreement and its worse because they had a deep relationship that failed so he was hurt and angry + plus more angry because nobody breaks a deal with Rumple. His anger for Cora probably just drove him to write the letter to Cora to upset her. That he wins because she tried to screw him out of the deal and he found her first born regardless of her deceit.
3) I don’t think Cora tried to get in touch with Zelena during her training. Cora had been stuck in Wonderland and needed to imprison the mad hatter to find a way to get back to her land. I don’t even know if Cora remembers Zelena. Maybe on top of ripping out her own heart so that she won’t feel pain she also took a memory forgetting potion like Regina.
thanks @once_dude I hope the writers explain why she didn’t already do it. But I like your theory about the ingredients having to be collected in a specific order. Its very rpg. I would also understand that her ambition for a second chance be an after thought, after reconjuring Regina’s curse.
I liked it!
I think I love Cora more. She had to rip out her own heart because of losing her baby. Maybe she abandoned it to give it its best chance also since Rumple wanted her or because someone stole her. But she couldn’t go on with losing her baby and Rumple’s love.
The only thing that bothers me about that is TimeLine… When did Cora have time to sleep with Rumple, have another affair and get married? How did she hide that pregnancy? It doesn’t make sense.
I also think its beautiful that Regina gave her heart to Robin.
Its also kind of beautiful and sad that Zelena is just doing everything for a second chance. I feel bad for her. I think she’s an amazing actress. I didn’t like her at first but now she feels really convincing for her role. Alot of the ideas the writers threw out would’ve made a cheesy sequel to the original, like getting an unknown sister, having yet again the sister’s revenge story and Emma dating a flying monkey but they’re doing a good job of making past failed ideas in bad movie sequels or cheesy comic books good.
I actually really like Walsh now. If Walsh was genuinely in love with Emma in New York I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of them getting back together. The actor had a really great presence, I don’t think he’s not good enough for Emma. He’s interesting. I want to know more about his story. Plus, If Emma ends up with Walsh it gets rid of any predictable love story line. I find it cheap that the writers negated the Tamara and Neal relationship for her to not have loved Neal at all. It would’ve added more complexity if Tamara did have feelings for Neal and there was a part in the relationship that did mean something. I think the writers have chance to redeem themselves. I hope they find it with Walsh and Emma. I don’t like cheap cop outs.
But I think the Neal Fans are right as much as i hate to admit it. If Zelena succeeds in time travel Neal may end up with a second chance at life. I want to see Zelena win so I can see what she’s really going to do. Unlike Pan’s ultimate darkest bluff not coming true. But at the same time, I don’t want a cheap cop out. You can’t change the past makes things interesting because you have to accept all the deaths and bad things about these characters past. I think that’s a beautiful struggle in telling these emotionally rewarding stories. But just completely getting rid of all of that makes me nervous. OUAT created great stories and now that could all changed and any deaths that happened are cheap. The dead need to stay dead for it to mean something. With the exception of Rumple and Pinocchio because their deaths have different rules than regular mortals. Pinocchio is an inanimate object made out of wood and the previous dark one stated the terms of how the dark one would be able to die. I’m okay with their resurrection because their loopholes were stated at the beginning of their existence so it doesn’t feel cheap. Death for Rumple and Pinocchio have a different meaning than it does for humans.
Also If Zelena has been after Regina’s heart the whole time she had a whole year to take it to make her life easier. Thoughts?
I think the fact that she kissed and had romantic feelings with Graham, then kiss and flirted with Hook and and a serious relationship with Walsh are all indications she’s been ready to move on. The point is she has been making those decisions to move on.
When she saw Neal again she didn’t want to tell Henry about Neal twice. Which isn’t very nice to Neal from a father’s perspective but she keeps choosing to have a life and a family without Neal.
These are all signs Emma has been wanting to move on. Its healthy and should be encouraged. Emma’s a different person now who has chosen to move on multiple times from her own free will. That should be respected. Can’t go backwards can only move forward.
@Nealfanforever. That’s alot of interesting theories. I think Neal is a regular human that was born from 2 regular people at the time. Good point with August & Rumple’s death but they’re both not human so death doesn’t mean the same thing to them as it would to a human. So Neal being a regular human, dead would just mean dead.
I think we’ve had enough death fake outs from loop holes but at least those loopholes were presented at the start of their existence. Both premises of their mortality were presented in season1. Pinocchio being an inanimate object brought to life and the dark one before Rumple said he couldn’t die unless someone else took their place by stabbing them with the dagger. But real human deaths need to remain dead because there’s a reason why the laws of magic are in place. In that case, Cora needs to stay dead. There’s no way she knew she was going to die by taking Rumple’s position in death and Cora also felt true love for her daughter the the very first time in her final moments. If she just faked her death it would negate that beautiful moment we shared watching that scene.
If Neal came back it would just cheapen the quality of the show. The writers didn’t leave any breadcrumbs to let us think otherwise either. I think its time to look forward and see how the show could progress.
@CrownedwithLaurels: There’s some people who we will love forever and they will always have a place in our hearts. Especially exes, the people we had meaningful relationships with. I think especially if those exes stay friends they’ll always love each other forever. But that isn’t enough reason why people should be together life moves forward. Emma has been ready to move on and you should let her. She seems to be over the Neal and Emma train and wants to get on with her life. Sure there’s something about past flames that’s always going to hurt us but Emma has been letting those walls come down. She’s been healing without Neal that adds to her independence. Her wall have been coming down for Mary Margret, David, Henry, Walsh, Graham and even Hook. Enough for her to kiss Hook and flirt with him before the curse took sb away.People have multiple great loves. Neal would’ve been Emma’s first love but he’s certainly not her last love. Her last love is Walsh. Past seemingly good relationships are still failed relationships that didn’t last. Unrequited loves are part of life and its a chance we take if we want to love. Real love is when you love somebody no matter what, even if they don’t love you. But at least you know what you feel is real. If you feel a great love, it doesn’t work out, or if it isn’t for you. You’re ready to get over your past I think it should be encouraged to move on.
If Neal and Emma had a Snow & David type of relationship they would’ve found a way to survive the craziness that pulled them apart. Neal would’ve said “Emma and I will work it out together” “whatever it is we can get through it together” “I will help her” but Neal understandably just listened to August. I think any boyfriend would have but not that many would’ve pushed back and said “No, there is another way and I can fix this.” I think its because Neal wasn’t confident that he could. He was running around with Emma stealing and promoting an unhealthy lifestyle. He wasn’t helping her to do anything productive. When he had a chance to choose Emma after the curse was over, I understand he was scared but true love wins over fear. He should have jumped at the chance to finally see her again.
Although, Tamara turned out to be a secret agent for Pan before the secret was revealed Neal truly loved Tamara. That love was real to him. Before Tamara decided to give up the facade there was no indication they were in a abusive relationship. But the point is, Neal found love and somebody he wanted to commit his love to. That was moving on. He moved on from Emma it doesn’t matter to who he was able to do it.
I just always felt that Emma could have done alot better than the characters she encountered on the show. The only one I felt was a good match for her was Graham and they had to kill off graham to have us focus on her ex. Ever since Graham Emma just hasn’t met anyone good. Graham was able to take down her defenses, give her a sense of belonging and had amazing chemistry. He influenced her to do good. So I will always mourn Graham and you can mourn Neal. But Emma needs to move on and find someone as good as Graham. Someone who is 100% truthful, feels like he could share anything with Emma and feels like they could get through anything with Emma together. That was what was lacking in Neal and Emma’s relationship.
@nealfanforever. I think Neal, years later after puberty could’ve understand his father was cursed and wasn’t himself. Its like a person acting under the influence of drugs. If the drug is making a person crazy and its affecting their behavior you don’t hate them. You take pity on them and get them help. Its not like Neal didn’t know his father was cursed. He had 300 years to make peace with knowing his father was a good man, got cursed and it made his father sick. I understand Neal was hurt but 300 years is alot of time to reflect and let go of negativity.
I don think it matters that Walsh was a monkey or that she had false memories. To her at the time, it was real. Emma being able to have an 8 month relationship with love and commitment was a huge milestone for her. She was able to take the steps and move on enough love another being. Her intimacy and commitment issues developed far.
Once you realize all of that wasn’t what it seemed doesn’t erase all the progress she made. It doesn’t matter what the context was her year with Henry away from StoryBrooke she continued to grow and develop as a person. She’s not the same person she was a year ago. She’s even more powerful now because she has ownership of the development she gained from her year in New York and the development she gained in Storybrooke. Just because her experience was dependent on illusion doesn’t mean she didn’t make that mental progression. She didn’t take a love potion, she fell in love with a jerk who didn’t say who he said he was. He wasn’t genuine but she was. So that’s what matters.
People have been rooting for her to not have moved on from Neal but I find that an unhealthy message. There’s true love at the time but people love, lost, gets their heart broken. But there’s a whole big world out there, other loves, other true loves and not all true love works out but its best to move on because life and time are not stationary. You can never go back to the past. Hook even proved that Emma’s heart was aching because of Walsh. There’s room in her to grow and move on past old flames she needs to take advantage of that.
Neal’s death was karma because he got what he deserved.
It costs something to victimize yourself, be hateful and resentful to someone for so long. Even if it seems earned, rightful for someone to be so bitter at someone that has hurt them. You don’t hold onto that negativity for 300 years. Neal’s angst and all his issues, baggage and past pain was what he earned for hating Rumple for so long. That’s what dark magic is about, feeding off that negative energy. Neal may not have practice as much dark magic as Rumple but he’s guilty of practicing that mantra. Not being able to let go was Neal’s sin that needed to be paid for.
In alot of ways Neal’s dead was beautiful. Everything he had hated and judged Rumple for Neal did. Turning to dark magic, making rash decisions, lettings the ends justify the means and choosing to let go of his son. People can be angry at Neal for doing what Neal hated from his own father. But I think its poetic. Because Neal understands first hand all the pain and everything his father had gone through when he made these decisions. This is how we know Neal fully forgives his father now because when he was faced with the same tough decisions he made the same decisions as his father. He can’t hate him or say he doesn’t understand anymore. He finally understands all the pain and love Rumple had. That’s healing, that resulted in Neal’s death but it was a journey worth taking because it melted away all the baggage and past issues of the monster he made his father out to be.
If he was going to die at least everything he father had ever ever done was redeemed and it was also redeemed for Henry. To learn what being selfless truly is for someone you truly love. Even though being with them is all you ever wanted and did anything for. Learning to let go of those dreams and desires so that your children can have their best chance is the ultimate sacrifice. Its what Rumple and Neal both learned so that Henry can hopefully not have to learn it the hard way.
1) Neal is realistic. Children who grew up with mommy or in Neal’s case daddy issues have a skewed perception about the parent they are hurt by. They villainize the parent. Neal spent centuries telling himself the same story over and over again that Rumple was a bad father who abandoned him and loved his dark power more than his son. If you spent so much time, being angry with someone its hard to break out of that pattern. It takes time to recover. His resentment would’ve been a habit, he needs a reminder that his father isn’t this person he told himself was for the past 300+ years.
2) Neal was so desperate and anxious to get his family back he just didn’t care about the price. That’s what emotions do to a person it causes them not to make wise choices but rash and impulsive ones. He also had enough faith in his father that no matter what happens his father would be able to overcome it.
3) Neal needed to acknowledge his father’s most recent important event, his sacrifice. That he was following the same honor by following in his papa’s footsteps. To give up his life, even if it mean he can’t be with his family he’s going to do it so that they have their best chance.
*It wasn’t about Neal going through a bad dad selfish arc but for him to understand what his own father had to go through. That was the perfect ending to Neal. BECAUSE he spent his whole life not understanding and hating his father. To having to make the same decisions his father had to make so that he could finally understand and make peace was a tremendous gift to Neal.
Sometimes its not enough to hear and empathize with someone’s situation, some people need to go through it. That’s what Neal had to go through to drop the baggage from his 300 year resentful & angry journey to get to the point of full understanding, love and forgiveness. Neal FINALLY understands his father.
Having to go through the journey Neal had is a bigger reward than to just say after 300 years alright I forgive you. Neal understood why he should forgive his father and stop being angry BUT its not that easy to be human. You have this habit of hating someone for so long. At least Neal was finally able to understand the pain and his father’s perspective in making the decisions he did because Neal had to do the same thing first hand. They both came to the same conclusion, even though its all they ever wanted. They don’t have to be in each other’s lives they just want their children and the people they love to be happy.
