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I will say yes, Colin said “nothing” — You have to remember that this is an interview. These people are put on the spot, and their words published verbatim, however, often, it’s a snippet of a longer comment or out of context. He’s also acknowledged Neal, Neal’s relationship with Emma, Neal’s relationship with Hook, many times and he typically has good things to say about all 3. As does Jen Morrison. As does MRJ.
I’m not going to get into a discussion over Hook vs Neal again….because 1) it gets no one nowhere, 2) it’s what kept me away from this site for weeks and 3) it’s what basically shut down the CS thread. Which, frankly, stinks for a nice little chunk of folks.
For what it’s worth, what I liked about the article is that it seems that we’re going to see some more of the lighthearted moments, like Regina sassing Emma about Captain Guyliner, the subcontext of Emma and Hook never having a moment without chasing someone or something, and so on.
[adrotate group="5"]I think Rumbelle has a better chance of succeeding now more than ever.
Their relationship was built on a lot of “but somewhere in there is good (even if Rumple’s doing something bad 99% of the time)” and “she supports and loves me (because I lie to her on a near-constant basis)”. There is no way, without Belle doing what she did, Rumbelle could have lasted.
Power is Rumple’s addiction, but Belle’s ability until now to blind herself to the truth of who Rumple is (and not who he can be) was perhaps even more detrimental to their relationship. She was the definition of enabler. But to see Belle finally hit her rock bottom – finally realize much of what her relationship with Rumple is built on are lies – was the first (amazing) step toward their recovery. I was so pleasantly surprised by how much Belle there was in the episode (and I’m not, admittedly, her biggest fan). When they showed her waking up (did Rumple dose her or something?) I was just “ugh, here we go again” but her awakening was wonderfully done, and (to me) as realistic as it’s going to get on OUAT-land.
Rumple…has not hit his rock bottom, in my opinion. Nor is he close to it. I think before he even gets there, he’s going to actively choose power over Belle (she’s already gone, so, mindframe). As mentioned, Rumple’s finding a way to not only survive outside of SB, but thrive and start another plan to get what he wants back. He learned NOTHING crossing over the line. I think Rumple will eventually be redeemed, but it won’t be for a long while – he’s got a lot of darkness in him and I think we’ve just tapped a bit of it.
So Rumbelle has a long way to go, but I do believe it’s not only salvagable but will finally become healthy – once Rumple meets Belle halfway and has his own awakening and learns the error of his ways…
I think the point being, they’re entering into the relationship as adults, who have/are learning from the past…I suppose if you need to compare Hook & Neal, you could say as opposed to Emma & Neal, who were still entrenched in that lifestyle when they were together.
(But I think it’s kind of nonsense to compare Hook to Neal and vice versa anyway. You could write down a lot of things, especially that happened to them and making them who they became, and it’d probably apply to either of them fairly well. Hence part of the reason why Emma loves them both, hence why they both love Emma.)
So re: Robin & Regina/Marian –
Am I the only one that thinks we’re doing to have a thawed out Marian next ep…thanks to Robin and Regina’s TL kiss? I think the writers are going to try to worm their way out of this OQ fiasco by showing how powerful Robin/Regina’s TL is, and Marian understanding…it’s a stretch but I think that’s really the only way they can go here.
I liked the ep. It wasn’t my favorite, but the ones with backstory on the villains generally aren’t. EM once again nailed it with her creepiness….that gal knows how to play some serious headgames! I’m not happy with Snow even one little bit. She keeps driving her own wedges between herself and Emma. And Charming/Hook/any other character has anything to do with her relationship with Emma. I’ve always felt a little harsh about Snowing because, as a parent, I just never bought their storyline that they’d put their child in some wardrobe not having any idea what would happen…I guess you could argue they trusted Pinocchio…but a kid??? Still not buying it. Charming has redeemed himself a lot, to me, because he looks at Emma and sees EMMA…he enjoys playing the Daddy role but he still understands that his daughter is an adult. Snow…just doesn’t get it. Still.
Happy OUAT day everyone!
I feel the angst just might be upon us with this ep! And I can’t wait! This Snow Queen gal hit a new level of creepy last week. I love it!
EM/Snow Queen has reached a new level of creepy…and I love it!! I was just thining earlier yesterday how Zelena/Oz seemed darker and after the creepiness of Z and Pan where were they going with the SQ…and then she just went and redefined creepy…did mention creepy? So yeah that was my favorite thing about the ep.
After last week and my conflicting feelings it left me with regarding Regina, I was glad to see where they went with her this week. Regina telling Robin to basically get his act together and move on from Regina was very noble, and reinforced Regina may wallow a bit but all the character growth we’ve seen in the past seasons isn’t going to waste. And she had some excellent Regina-isms, which I missed in the past few eps. Between ‘Captain Guyliner’ and ‘Storming an evil ice cream truck,’ she was absolutely on fire, and that’s one of my favorite things about her. I’m hoping a lot of the woe-is-me stuff has passed and she continues to constructively deal with this whole Robin thing.
Disliked
Anna…is kind of getting a little one note for me. I really like her, and the actress’ portrayal of her, but ok, enough going off on your own – you just get into trouble – and tone down the chipper. PLEASE.
Mixed
Ok, I’m pretty ‘meh’ when it comes to Belle. I can’t help it. I just can’t seem to connect with her. This episode had me rooting for her when she stood up to Rumple, then it seemed like a constant 1 step forward, 2 steps back. She went off on her own to find out why she couldn’t remember her mother’s death – yay! Strong Belle! – then Anna almost dies because Belle chooses to try and save the rock thingy before saving Anna – huh? Belle? Did you hit your head somewhere along the way?… standing up for herself in the mirror – a little funky, but again, go Belle! … turning into a weeping apologist when talking to Rumple…here we go again…although I did leave that scene far more angry with Rumple than with Belle, of course.
In regard to the tape, Hook and Emma…it really has nothing to do with Rumple – to me, it doesn’t matter if it’s real or not, altered or not. What matters is the events that lead up to it. Hook, for all his posturing and bragging, has very little self esteem and is right in the middle of dealing with the person he was (both as the lieutenant and pirate), who he is, and who he wants to be. Hence why he wanted his hand (to be whole for Emma, because she deserves someone whole, not someone in the middle of an identity crisis), hence why he made stupid choices to get it and get rid of it, and hence why he’s landed himself in his current mess.
I think Hook will tell Emma, and I do hope we get to see it. I think Emma has come far enough to understand and not be angry about it. Sure, she might have an initial angry reaction but I think it will be fleeting. Ultimately, I think these events are setup to show us that just like Killian knows & understands Emma completely, Emma knows & understands Killian completely. I think this is going to be the catalyst for Emma to realize she now has to be the support for Killian that he’s been for her since they first met. I don’t think they’re going to waste time with Emma being angry or forcing a break up to make up scenario.
In regard to Zelena, the only reason I am angered by Rumple killing her is because it’s exactly the opposite of what Neal would’ve wanted. Vengence in the name of someone who would be totally and completely against the act is not vengance at all. In this world, murder is almost never punished in the sense that you get arrested and go to jail – there do tend to be other repurcussions, though. (Regina and Rumple, for all the killing and ‘enjoyment’ they had in it, did so while in a place of serious depression/sadness/anger, and it never seems to accomplish whatever their ‘purpose’ was in doing it.)
And the Neal/Hook meta a few pages back…perfection! It’s like somebody jumped in my head and put my thoughts in a nice, cohesive essay far more eloquent than I could’ve come up with! I don’t dislike Neal. I just don’t think he and Emma were right for each other – 12 years ago or in present day. If Neal were still here, I’d want him to find his Tallahassee as well – just, not with Emma, because he could never be the person Emma needs, and I don’t think Emma is the person Neal would’ve needed either.
Oh my…you know when you’re gone for a day and come back to about 7 new pages something’s going on! Sigh. Yes, please remember ship threads are considered by many to be their ‘safe havens’ even when the topic is not their particular ship – and the thoughts expressed should be respected. Well, all thoughts should be respected but you know what I mean! 🙂
I did really like this episode, and I’m glad I did, because it confirmed to me that I’m enjoying the season overall, not just the abundance of CS the writers are giving us so far!~~~
In regard to Regina – I didn't see the episode as a parallel necessarily to Emma's story in 3B. I saw it more as Emma, realizing how important it was for her to have her family and Killian there, giving her unwavering support and wanting to pay it forward, if you will. Perhaps Emma's pushing Killian & her family away, and Regina's pushing Emma away are similar, but their motivations are drastically different.
Do I think Emma and Regina are going to be besties – or that they should? No, definitely not. Even without the history they are two very different women. However, they still have a son that they have to co-parent, so they need to have some kind of relationship that isn't filled with animosity – for their child's sake. I think, given Emma's recent experiences, she's able to see this.
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Overall, I did kind of see this episode as A&E basically telling the fandom ‘yeah, we hear you! SHUT IT!!!’ haha. The criticism thread for the episode discussed whether the episode could have been considered baiting…I’m not sure I’d go that far, but I do know when I was watching Emma/Regina scenes thinking the SQ ship must be having a field day, Hook’s comment to Will about his relationship with Henry as the writers putting anti-Hookers in their place regarding Capt Cobra, etc etc. I think I was amused by it for the most part, personally. I wasn’t sure it was the best idea, because I’m assuming there was a lot of “feedback” after the episode, and frankly, people are going to think what they want to think and see things they want to see at this point. (I did see somewhere someone saying Hook looking at the photo of Emma & Neal and his reaction being his realization that he and Emma would never be together right now if Neal were alive….definitely not sure we were watching the same show, that fan and I because I saw Hook looking at Baelfire and feeling all of the pain and complicated emotions he has for Bae flood to the surface, but maybe that’s just me.)
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Of course, I loved the CS scenes we had! I love how, now that Emma and Killian have both admitted to themselves & each other how they feel, now comfortable they seem to be with each other. It’s wonderful to see Emma opening up more and more – I’m hoping, now that she and David seem to have established a nice balance, it happens with Snow. I was both amazed and not surprised (if that’s possible!) when Emma brought out her box of childhood possessions and shared them with Killian. I’m glad there was a pic of Neal in there, and I’m glad we got to see the pain both Emma and Killian still feel when reminded of him. (Because while I don’t think for a second Emma was even contemplating resuming her relationship with Neal, both she & Killian did care for him in their own ways….I won’t bring up the fact that she bailed on one date and got more than a tad fancified for the other as an example of that opinion or anything…tee hee) And I was glad to see Graham’s shoelace was back after being removed for the date. To me, going through her past, seeing the photo of Neal, after her date with Killian, really drove home the concept that Emma is not forgetting about or letting go of her past; rather, she’s looking at the memories and momentos and instead of only seeing the pain, she’s finding the positive. Again, amazing character development for our girl. I can only hope that Killian’s identity crisis that I would assume will occur, and his recovery from it will be as well done.
Ok I just realized this post is about 1.5 pages in word (yeah, I type them out there now before posting, lost too many with a flick of the wrist typing directly in the forum! Ha! So I will bow out. Continue with the pretties, Surayya, I love seeing them! And I’m loving the discussions that have come up – you’ve given me lots to think about!ahem – and our pirate is really the only man alive that could get away with that shirt.
She’s acting out the lyrics..let it go. The past is in the past. Let it go.
I am going to say something shocking: I hate the message of this song. The past cannot be “let go.” It follows you wherever you go. And saying that you can somehow distance yourself from your past is a very romantic notion that we all like to think is possible, but it’s not. You’re past is a part of you. Always. You’re never ever free from it. Like my current siggy say: there are ghosts everywhere. We carry them with us wherever we go.
I must agree with you, RG! It actually kind of bothers me that the song is so huge, because it’s kind of not a great message to send to it’s young audience, in my opinion. However that’s the movie and this is discussion on the show. S0 —
NOT ‘letting go’ was the point of the entire episode, to me, and a huge part of Emma’s story as a whole. The entire scene with Emma and Hook going through the box – Emma wasn’t letting the past go, she was making peace with it. Up to this point, the things she keeps are chosen because they remind her of how hurt you can get – the glasses, the pic of Neal, the shoelace, the camera – INITIALLY she held onto them to remind her of the pain she’s experienced. However, the Emma that kept these objects is not the Emma we see today. She’s learning to overcome her past. To me, the scene with the box was incredibly important to her story because we see these objects take on entirely new meaning. Instead of reminding Emma of the pain she associated with those experiences, she’s realizing there was GOOD in each one of these experiences as well. Graham was her first friend in SB, the first person to start putting cracks in Emma’s walls. Emma and Neal truly loved each other, and Emma finally knows and can accept that what happened was not done because Neal didn’t love her, as she believed for over a decade, but because he was trying to give her her best chance. So there HAD to be a picture of Neal there….for her to not have one in a box of the most important things she held onto would, for me, be completely OOC an not organic (granted the pic was terrible because that moment never would have been captured on film – didn’t they have ANYTHING better? Even a BTS shot of Jen & MRJ?) And they had to make it obvious that, with all of the changes and attempts at new beginnings in the previous episode, Emma is still going to hold these items and keep them dear to her – but now she’s beginning to see the good, not the bad. This is HUGE for the character.
In regard to her mourning Neal…ok, I’m going to be blunt. I don’t think we’re going to see a lot of it. And if not seeing Emma and Henry mourn Neal is a deal breaker for some fans, I think they’re going to be greatly disappointed in the show. That’s not to say they shouldn’t mourn him, and that’s not to say it’s the correct choice on the part of the writers, but I think Neal’s death is just going to have more to do with Rumple than it will with Emma and Henry. Although Emma realizes the reasons behind Neal’s actions, and can forgive and start to see the good they shared, you’re still asking someone to forget a decade of pain she DID feel. That’s asking a lot. And if you’re of the opinion that Emma did not intend to reenter a romantic relationship with him, then they’re even more disconnected. It’s hard to swallow, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt, but asking this character at this point to openly mourn is asking for something I just don’t think the character can give.
As for Henry, agreed, his memories of Neal, when you consider both the real and the fake, are so all over the place, that’s going to screw up a 12/13 year old pretty good. I think if you’re asking Henry to mourn Neal the way an adult would mourn, you’re asking a lot of a screwed up 12/13 year old. At that age, do you even really know how to mourn? Considering you have two mothers who aren’t exactly great with emotions and coping themselves, are you going to know how to appropriately act, or are you going to push the way you feel aside and let yourself get caught up in the present? I think Henry’s not mourning is actually more in character than if he was showing genuine sadness over Neal’s death – not because he doesn’t feel it, but because this kid’s not going to know how to process it. Again, does it suck? Yeah. But I don’t think they way they’re going with Henry is necessarily inappropriate or OOC at this point. Actually, I think Henry’s decision to ask to shadow Rumple, with somewhat self-serving and hidden reasons is far more in character, considering the role models he’s had up to now. And if, when he finds out that Rumple killed Zelena ‘for Neal,’ Henry’s going to understand better than anyone, that is NOT what Neal would’ve wanted. I think at that point, it would be more understandable for Henry to be forced to admit the reality of losing his father, and see him genuinely allow himself to mourn at that point.
WickedRegal wrote:
Lana Parrilla even said that, Adam and Eddy are really setting up a sisterly relationship between Emma and Regina, which would parallel the Elsa and Anna sisterhood. I know…just another weird connection because Regina is really Emma’s Grandmother through marriage….but a type of sisterhood is where they’re heading for.Well if your step-grandmother were frozen at the same age you currently are, you might become like sisters. However, that raises the question of why Emma and Snow aren’t closer and more sisterly. I get that Emma feels more similar to Regina since they both have magic and that they’re both mothers to Henry. Yet, I would hope Emma could have a closer relationship to Snow the way she and Mary Margaret were close in S1, before Emma realized she was indeed her mom. Why is it that Emma can forgive Regina for casting the dark curse which caused her to grow up an orphan in this world, yet Emma doesn’t seem able emotionally to open up to Snow, who only sent her away to give her her best chance? I wish Emma could give her own mom more of a break. Emma is also a lot closer now to David than she is to Snow.
Emma and Snow’s relationship as mother-daughter is vastly different than Emma and Regina’s relationship, though. It makes sense that Emma and Snow are struggling – they have nothing to base their relationship on. Their relationship is completely unique. Snow is trying to mother Emma, which is not a role you can just slip into after 30 years no matter what the reason you weren’t there for her growing up may be. Emma was forced to grow up with very little by way of parents, and as a result, accepting someone – her age, no less – as her mother is always going to be difficult, if not near-impossible. Snow’s likely going to have to acquiesce, realize the consequences of their decision to give Emma up and try to form a friendship, not a mother-daughter relationship.
Regina and Emma however, can develop a more sisterly bond more easily than Emma and Snow’s mother-daughter bond, though, I think. One thing this episode really pointed out to me is how deep Regina’s abandonment issues run. Sure, we’ve been beat over the head for the last 3 years with Emma’s abandonment issues, but we’ve never really focused on the abandonment that Regina felt. Even though her mother was there, Cora was no mother and Regina has felt alone for most of her life, even when surrounded by people. Emma has dealt with much of her problems with abandonment, and I think is in a place in her life where she can be the person/friend/sister-figure that Regina needs to start dealing with her own abandonment issues. Regina’s going to need exactly what Emma needed – people in her life that refuse to give up on her, refuse to back down when she’s pushing you away. I think this episode really did a good job of showing that Emma recognized this and is not only willing, but wants to be this person for Regina. Not out of guilt, but because she sees much of herself in Regina.In regard to the baiting thing — ok I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, but…
I do agree that this episode almost seemed like A&E saying to the fandom ‘yeah, we hear you. ALL.’ So here’s a response to much of the stuff we hear. We saw it with Hook and Will’s exchange regarding Henry. With the picture of Emma and Neal. With the shoelace (did it almost seem larger than it usually does?).
None of it offended me. I was glad to see Hook attempting to establish a relationship with the person who will always be the biggest and most important person in her life – Henry. And I was glad to see him put Will in his place when Will tried to mouth off about it. And I was very happy to see the shoelace was back – it showed that Emma may have been able to take herself away from those things she’s gathered as reminders of her past for a bit, but they still play a role in her life and always will. And though the picture of Neal was odd – yeah, it was a special moment between the two of them, it never would’ve been photographed – I would have been angry if there weren’t something associated with Neal in that box. Neal was unarguably one of the most important people in her life, she’s going to have mementos of him – and we haven’t been shown anything other than the swan pendant that she already gave to Henry, so a picture would really have to be the thing in the box representing Neal. I did, admittedly think some are going to look at the Emma/Regina scenes and see romantic undertones – but the writers have 2 choices. Bring Henry’s mothers together and form some kind of friendship (because to be blunt, we’ve been told flat out it’s not going to be romantic) – or have them remain enemies. And not grow.
So, my question then is, if these things were the writers ‘baiting’ various members of the audience — what would you have rathered seen, or not seen? Would you have NOT wanted them to include Neal in Emma’s memory box? Would you rather NOT see Emma/Regina’s friendship grow if it’s not going to turn romantic? Woudl you NOT want to see Emma did put the shoelace back on?
