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CaptainEala wrote: The very first time we saw Neal we were shown VERY CLEARLY that he had received a postcard
The second time we saw Neal it was in an episode where Emma was interacting, in the present, with her True Love, and how Emma’s relationship with Neal destroyed her ability to trust
In that same episode, Neal told August to send him a postcard if Emma fulfilled her role to break the curse
He didn’t go after her
The image we were left with was of broken Emma, in jail, holding a positive pregnancy testAgree!!!!
CaptainEala wrote: TELL ME AGAIN THEY AREN’T BUILDING HIM UP TO BE THE MAIN ROMANTIC LEAD WITH CHARMING TRY TO I DARE YOU
They are going to get some serious flack from SQ and ST both for that. But who cares??? I don’t!!! I love me some Hooky!
This is cool. I know Colin is busy, but I do wish he would say Happy Valentines Day to his fans like last year. Granted he had a broken leg at the time, and wasn’t filming, though. Oh, well. We have a lot to look forward to in March.
Honestly, I’m not shocked he’s taking a “twitter break” right now. Stelio and some of the others here can give you a better idea of what’s been going on but in the past few weeks, Colin’s been the victim of a particularly scary person…fans keep reporting her and the handle gets blocked but she starts up with another. She’s done it to others in the OUAT cast, and I’m sure other famous people too. I’m not talking whiny ‘shippers or people threatening to stop watching if nonsense, or even the pure bullying, this person is seriously very mentally unstable. It’s scary reading the tweets she posts on their accounts. Once she moves on to the next person to harass, maybe he’ll post a little more. Seriously, I don’t know how any of them participate in social media sometimes.
[adrotate group="5"]Guys, do you think that A&E automatically assumed that everyone would love Neal? Because of Baelfire. I’m just wondering, I’ve seen some arguments indicating that.
Actually, I do believe there’s some truth to that. I think in part, it is a bit of excellent casting and lazy writing. It’s my understanding they approached MRJ for the role of Neal. If he auditioned, I believe it was amongst a very small group of people. And I’m sure he isn’t just being paid scale. He’s resume’s more impressive than some of the other leads. Often when you have a kid and adult playing the same part, you see the kid in flashbacks, and the adult is the main portrayer. In this situation, MRJ had to start with an already established, beloved character, and someone else’s take on that character. That’s not an easy thing to do, but MRJ definitely has the skills to do it, which I believe A&E realize. (If you’ve never seen True Blood S1 when he was on it, check it out. Seriously he’s one of the few actors that actually shocked me with the big reveal.) But you need a little something to work with. The writing has to be there and it just isn’t. Where’s the scene that shows how he lost that youthful innocence? Was it NL? Was it his return to the Land W/O Magic? Both? Where was he in the 11 years after he let Emma go? I definitely need more to understand how he actually loved Tamara but then days later, said he loved Emma, then fell through a portal, almost died at the hands of girl#1, and…there’s no mention of it? Yet he’s “never going to stop fighting” for Emma? HUH?!
On the other hand, I do know Colin had to audition – haha I remember an interview Eddy gave when he said his wife informed him he was to ‘(expletive) hire that guy’ when she saw his audition tape. And he does a great job with the role – I mean, really, it takes a lot to make a leather clad adult pirate with a hook believable!! But they also give him a lot to work with. He’s had centrics. He’s had exposition.
So I do understand how SFers can get frustrated. I’m frustrated. Don’t get me wrong, I love Hook (CE, don’t hate me, I just might like him more than Emma! 🙂 ) but Neal has definitely not been given his due when it comes to exposition and screentime. I am of the opinion that the reason we haven’t seen him and Rumple and maybe even Emilie is not because they’re not filming. There could be a plethora of other reasons – they’re in the studio, they’re at a different location (shows do have the ability of shooting on location without fans knowing or getting as close as they get when they’re filming in Steveston) and I think it’s conscious effort on the part of the show to keep those pics and spoilers at bay. They could also be filming out of order due to scheduling conflicts, and just not being obvious about it. So I do hope they give him his due in S3B. I, for one, am really looking forward to it. Along with lots ‘o’ Emma and Hook bonding time!! And toss some Henry and Hook bonding time in too! 🙂
Love that essay. It completey explains not only why I haven’t been able to bond with Neal but why I expected to bond with Neal and then was frustrated when I couldn’t. And the best part is, the explanation in the essay has NOTHING to do with Hook – just like our CS ship has been saying. My frustrations with how Neal has been handled have NOTHING to do with me wanting Emma with Hook. I still wanted to see some kind of depth to Neal as a character – nothing that had to do with a triangle necessarily, wanted to see Hook and Bae’s backstory dug into – was dying to see all of that, hoping we will see more of Neal and Hook together dealing with THEIR personal aftermath in 3B. But great essay. I do hope the SF folks will maybe understand what we have been trying to say hearing it from her perspective instead of insisting we are only seeing those things because we are biased by CS.
This sums it up! It’s not that I don’t like Neal, I just cannot bond with him and the essay pretty much spells out why. Although he’s not my particular choice for Emma’s love interest, I want to see his relationship with his father and Henry to develop and I want to see more of his and Hook’s backstory. I will be upset if he’s the one that the spoiler-that-shall-not-be-named is about.
@obisgirl – are you serious?! That is insanity on a whole new SCARY level. It’s a tv show people! Yes, it makes you happy, sad whatever – that’s what it’s supposed to do, it’s kinda the point of art – but to make things so personal or to think something like death threats are ‘amusing’ is disturbing.
Such a great analysis of the interaction between Emma & Hook that resulted in the kiss…love it! The arguments about this scene in particular get under my skin for some reason – maybe because I also love this episode for the Hook/Charming bromance in addition to the smooch. So I’m sharing!
That being said…from Wikipedia:
Gratitude, thankfulness, gratefulness, or appreciation is a feeling or attitude in acknowledgment of a benefit that one has received or will receive.
Gratitude is not the same as indebtedness. While both emotions occur following help, indebtedness occurs when a person perceives that they are under an obligation to make some repayment of compensation for the aid.[7] The emotions lead to different actions; indebtedness can motivate the recipient of the aid to avoid the person who has helped them, whereas gratitude can motivate the recipient to seek out their benefactor and to improve their relationship with them.
WOW, that second paragraph sounds quite familiar doesn’t it? Hook didn’t say “YOU OWE THIS TO ME, WOMAN” and beat her over the head with a club, dragging her to his mancave to have his way with her. He in no way suggested she was INDEBTED to him, he…in a flirty and joking manner…asked for a little bit of thanks. NOT EXPECTING ANYTHING FROM HER AT ALL.
And if they knew anything about his character, which they obviously don’t given how they talk about him, they would know that Hook flirts and uses his pretty face in uncomfortable situations. He uses flirting and sass to deflect his emotions. Charming just got done toasting him for heaven’s sake — the pirate who has been selfish for the last 300 years, running from authority and people like Charming, just got toasted by a king and queen right in front of their daughter slash princess he’s in love with. And he just stood there frozen until Emma broke the silence. It’s not a comfortable situation for him… he doesn’t fully know how to be this honorable guy yet. Like Colin said, he’s trying to do the right thing and be the hero but all still within the confines of his “Hook/Pirate” persona and it’s a struggle so he flirts and he’s sassy and he says things at inappropriate times but he’s trying.
Him asking Emma for a kiss was just shameless flirting. He fancies her. He’s always fancied her. He flirts with her ALL the time. He flirted with her on the beanstalk, during their sword fight by the side of the road after he got hit by a freaking car, chained up in a hospital bed…etc. They only have this huge problem with it this time around b/c Emma reciprocated. That’s the real issue here, make no mistake. If Emma would have stepped back from him and told him to get lost, they wouldn’t have an issue with it whatsoever. But instead, she looked at him like this when he stepped closer to her:
She liked it. She challenged him. She kissed him. You don’t have to like it, but to ignore canon fact that isn’t even presented ambiguously doesn’t make you look cool or smart, it makes you look like a moron. And if they knew anything about Emma, they would know that she doesn’t do things she doesn’t want to do. Earlier that day he tried connecting with her emotionally and she shut him down completely — yet he still went and saved her father anyway. For her. And didn’t even want Charming to say a damn word about it. He just didn’t want her to lose her father. He didn’t care about the gratitude, he cared about her not having to endure a loss like he did when he lost Liam to dreamshade.
So it’s hilarious to me that in the very next scene after he questions Charming giving him gratitude in front of everyone that he uses “gratitude” as a way of flirting with Emma and people actually take him seriously?! The dude didn’t expect a thing from her, she had given absolutely no reason to. So when the moment turned serious and she gave him a heartfelt thank you (that he still doesn’t feel he deserves b/c he loathes himself…let’s just be honest) he deflects and lightens up the conversation the only way he knows how to which is by flirting. And before you know it her lips are on his, her hands are in his hair and his world has been rocked.
But at the end of the day, there is no point in arguing with people who don’t get (or accept) the truth of what is going on in this scene. They are so blinded by their hate for Hook that anything and everything he does is just wrong so… again, there is no point. I would just let them do their thing, man. And it’s only going to get worse, especially IF Neal dies and Hook starts hanging out with Henry. So grow some thick skin, consider the source, and stay clear of people who in the same breath insult your intelligence then make things up to suit their own headcanons. There is no reasoning with people like that.
Aurora wrote: I actually have a question: SFers seem to be convinced that Emma doesn’t know that Hook “stole” Milah from Rumple (and Bae). What do you guys think?
I really cannot stand that SF ‘shippers don’t give Emma enough credit for her street smarts. There’s this belief that Emma and Team Princesses were going to die in season 2 winter finale. No, they weren’t. I figured out that twist that they would probably use the squid ink on the scroll moments before they used. It wasn’t difficult foreshadowing to decipher. And this, that Emma hasn’t figured out that Hook stole Milah from Rumple business? First of all, you don’t steal a person. Milah was a human being and she made a choice to leave Rumple for Hook. It sucks for Rumple that she made that decision but it was her decision to make. And it’s already been confirmed by Hook that Milah chose him. Second of all, Emma is smart. She knows that Milah was Neal’s mom and she knows that Milah was Hook’s lover. She’s not an idiot.
THANK YOU @Aurora and @Obisgirl for this!! I saw some stuff online too and I was going to come on here and ask the question but the cold medicine I’ve been chugging like water made me wonder if I would even post a sensible thought! (I’m such a baby when it comes to colds, it’s pretty sad how pathetic I get) And here’s my question, answer, and opinion all wrapped up nice and neat! 🙂
Back to my cocoon!
Jenna_B wrote: And I like the “Home” theme. As others have said, ‘home’ is many different things to many people and I think one of the best things I feel this show has done is point out that ‘home’ and ‘family’ doesn’t only look like the stereotypical mom-dad-2.5 kids Leave it to Beaver definition of family.
I agree that family and home don’t have to meet the nuclear family model. Family can come in many varieties and forms. Henry’s family is a good example of that. But, it seems like there’s been such a major shift in society that anything “traditional” is sometimes looked down on. What’s so wrong with two people who love each other, and who may have a kid together, resolving to work out their issues because they want to? It seems like co-parenting and divorce have become the norm, so that anything else is almost frowned upon nowadays or sticks out. I’m thankful my own parents have stayed together for over 30 years, and they didn’t just do it for me. They did it because they love each other and made a commitment.
Very true, Slurpeez… did A&E confirm that Snow is definitely pregnant? They’re the most ‘traditional’ couple, I think, and I would want A&E to include a nuclear family along with non-traditional forms of them. I guess technically they are…their daughter just happens to be the same age as them, due to unforeseen circumstances! 🙂 I just like that just like they put their own spins on traditional fairy tales, they also put their own spins on their themes, like ‘hope’ or ‘family’.
EDIT – Can’t work the spoiler codes today!! ARGH! Maybe I can work it now…
I did enjoy that article quite a bit! Did you see Adam’s tweets backtracking? He said something like it was taken out of context but the article seemed to be the transcript of an interview to me… I just caught a bit in the article thread, I’m too afraid to go onto Twitter myself, I’m sure he’s getting barraged.
I said it in the other thread, I think the interviewed came off a little fan-girly (I know source…it’s going to be more fan-girly than other interviewers) but I liked that because it seemed like she got A&E chatting a bit more than they do with other reporters (you know, except when they MUST be hammered at a publicity event and think it’s a good idea to spoil the death of a regular).
Overall, if A&E can focus on some quality story and character development, I’ll finally give in and believe a death could be story driven (still very skeptical about that one). Again, said in the other thread but I know not all of us venture out and I like the opinions of all, so – I like the theme of “Home” being explored and I’ve always enjoyed and appreciated the fact that OUAT has focused on non-traditional forms of family. Henry has 2 moms, and a dad. And that’s totally normal. And he’s better off for it. It’s made the concept of fairy tales meets reality much more than an amusing if implausible story.
The interview came off as just a little fan-girl (I know, the source – it’s going to sound different than Matt Mitovich writing an article…) but she did get A&E to talk so that’s good. They didn’t really give much we didn’t know, except some reassurance that we’ll get some Rumbelle. That makes me happy.
And I like the “Home” theme. As others have said, ‘home’ is many different things to many people and I think one of the best things I feel this show has done is point out that ‘home’ and ‘family’ doesn’t only look like the stereotypical mom-dad-2.5 kids Leave it to Beaver definition of family. My family sure doesn’t meet that definition and I’m betting a lot of people’s doesn’t. I love that Henry can have 2 moms and a dad and it’s not portrayed as odd or unusual, they show it as totally normal, functional, but atypical family, and Henry as a kid who’s better for it. I love that finding ‘home’ is a huge struggle for each character, and emphasis is put on the idea that it doesn’t matter what home looks like, what matters is how being ‘home’ makes you feel.
So ok, A&E, you’re got me intrigued!! Don’t screw it up by sweeping the good character development under the rug for the over-the-top-the-world’s-on-fire-oh-nooooo!!! theatrics!!!
