Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
Keb
ParticipantWell, her worries about the dagger are two-fold–she KNOWS it’s a huge act for him to surrender the dagger to anyone.
So, a, as the mirror reflected, she knows who Rumple is even though she wants to believe in his better nature winning out. She’s afraid that he hasn’t changed enough to be honest (that was his crime in 204 that made her leave him) or worse, what he might be doing if he isn’t being honest with her (she definitely wondered if he had killed Zelena–and then he told everyone she had the dagger as proof he hadn’t). She’s not stupid, but she wants to believe in him and believes he needs her to.
And b, she wants to believe that she’s worthy of his love. She’s got a lot of self-doubts; she’s an idealist (it comes with the loving stories territory) and has very high standards for herself. That’s why it was hard for her to risk going on the adventure she’d always wanted in 211. That’s why she lied to people in 406–she was afraid of people finding out she wasn’t as good as they thought her to be. That’s part of why she was so depressed in 307–she believed that she wasn’t needed to save Henry, that she didn’t have anything to offer. And worse, that the man she loved didn’t want or need her with him.
Her history as far as we know it is not exactly a series of heroic victories of the sort she seems to like in her books. She not only couldn’t save her mother, but she couldn’t even remember her mother’s sacrifice because she blacked out. To Belle’s insecurities, that’s a sign of cowardice, even if an outsider might not see it that way. That’s why it was so important to her to regain those memories–another mission she failed, and in the process she let a friend get hurt and captured. And worse, she didn’t know what else to do afterwards so she…just went home.
She did manage to save her family, but as we see in 211 when she’s fresh from Rumple breaking her heart and casting her out, she still feels like she failed. (And she did fail to break his curse.) She did manage to save Phillip, but then she was held captive for three years and then put into the asylum for another 28 and a half. I’ve no doubt that during that time she dwelt a lot on how she’d messed up just about everything since the ogres attacked her mother. Not exactly good for the psyche.
And then in Storybrooke she’s had her share of failures as well–she saved Archie but then she got shot and couldn’t help Rumple with his son (and as Lacey probably made things worse). She couldn’t go to Neverland and she almost botched her missions from Rumple too. Oh, and let’s see, she was completely helpless when he died…and couldn’t stop Neal from sacrificing HIS life, either.
We, the audience, see her in a much more positive light than she sees herself. We skim over her failings for the most part because a, we often see her through Rumple’s eyes and he worships her, and b, her heroic acts stand out more to us because her failings all have reasons (or horrible writers to blame). We get that Pan had her frozen in place, but someone with insecurities could still blame herself for that. And what we saw in the mirror combined matches up with what we saw in 211 and 307 to really help define her mental state. It doesn’t take away from her independent streak (204, 406, 112, 219) that she’s got insecurities–to me, it makes her a more rounded, dynamic character who has been shaped by her experiences, which is exactly the sort of character we want.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantOkay…copy paste didn’t work. Trying something else: There should be a PDF attached now that has my raw data in the most user-friendly way I could put it.
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantOh, and the page I’ve counted this up on is “Characters” which has a LOT of extraneous data (including a “status” field that hasn’t been updated since people were still in Neverland). As I’ve said before, the spreadsheet is awesome but not for the faint of heart.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
Participanthttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9OE9YbXIweU03OFU/view?usp=sharing should work. I just checked the settings and upgraded to anyone can find it for viewing.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantYeah, it should be marked as public, but I can double check the accessibility of it. Keep in mind to view it properly, you’ll have to download a copy and use Excel, because Google’s drive display just doesn’t do that. However, I’ll see if I can work up a neat and tidy list of deaths for you guys for the raw data fans.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantIf they hadn’t specifically kept Anna from saying his name, I’d say it was a BIG plot hole. But they did, and I think that was intentional to close the plot hole a bit. Also, my impression was that Belle had done a ton of research (as is her wont) before she went to Arendelle. She might have run across Rumple’s name in all those books she was looking at when her dad told her she had to stay in her room.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantWell…I honestly have disliked Outlaw Queen from the moment they introduced the concept, and as soon as they brought Marian back into the mix I couldn’t see myself ever liking it. So…it’d be nice to see them wrap up that thread and move on but I’m kinda going ugh about this peek.
It just feels like that bit when David Nolan is buying two valentines and it’s just cringeworthy. Yes, love is complicated and triangles sell t-shirts…but this one (like the S1 triangle) just feels forced. They stuck Robin Hood into an impossible situation (yay drama), but the only resolution that doesn’t make him look like a total cad unworthy of Regina is for him to Not Be With Regina.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantThe mirror did speak some truths, but it was echoing her inner doubts (it was a very, very accurate portrayal of depression, in my experience), some of which had a good basis in truth and some of which did not.
Rumple reassures her that nothing the mirror said was true–but we know that some of it was. Belle’s going to trust him, though, because she loves him and -needs- him to be right for her own self image and security.
Oh, and Anna refused to say Rumple’s name. Belle told her father she found it in her research. So it’s possible that Belle’s never made the connection between Rumple & Anna, especially since, while Anna saw him at his most monstrous, Belle witnesses him torturing and trying to kill Robin Hood and still sees the good in him only a few weeks later–she never completely buys his “I’m a horrible monster” mask. It’s entirely possible she believed Anna was talking about someone else, if it ever came up in her mind after that.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantOh, and we’ve seen both birth and death scenes for:
Henry
Baelfire/Neal
Zelena
Stealthy
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantAw, thank you!
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
-
AuthorPosts