[Keb]

Eh, if we’re going to talk about the actors wanting their chars to have babies, both Bobby and Emilie have suggested that Rumbelle would want kids at various points. It’s gonna happen. I just can’t see it happening right now.

And as for who is the most important couple…that’s like asking who’s the most wicked villain or who the real hero is of the story. Geez people. The extended Henry Clan are all important, and all their relationships matter; A&E said it’s a family show about a very messed up family. And I think all the people in the clan who are still living have the chance to be heroes or villains, and all their romantic entanglements matter. Snowing and Rumbelle are the canonical couples we’ve gotten the most of (and that we know to be True Love), but whatever happens with Hook/Neal/Emma/Regina/not-yet-introduced-love-interests is DEFINITELY going to be of central importance in the next season(s).

[Keb]

Well, even if they DID have sex at some point, they’re both too smart to risk a pregnancy they’re not ready for. And again, that romantic/family man dynamic comes in–I think Rumple would insist on being married before having another child, and Belle would want that. Between magic and general knowledge they’d find a way to avoid that risk. I think they’d both love to have kids but it’s still very early in their relationship if you don’t include the years of separation. (They’ve had like 3-4 months together at the most, 2-3 of those in the Dark Castle, unless you can find a way to stretch out season 2 that I haven’t–and if so, please tell me, because it’s a timeline headache).

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

See, my headcanon is that while they might have shared a bed when she was in his house, they haven’t actually had sex yet. They hadn’t even kissed in the Dark Castle until just before he cast her out, she only stayed at his house for a few days (at most a couple weeks) before moving into the library caretaker’s place after which they took things slowly, and they were still learning to trust each other when she was pushed over the line (which, even being as generous as I could be with my timeline…is only 25 days after the curse broke). I can’t see him having sex with Lacey (and they only had like a day together like that anyway) if he hadn’t with Belle…and there wasn’t time between her taking the drink and their showing up at the docks, despite all the fanfics suggesting there could have been.

Not saying it’s impossible, but it seems unlikely given their personalities. Rumple’s a bit of a gentleman and a family man anyway (yes, help the maid out of the carriage after telling her how dark you are…), despite the implied relationship with Cora, and Belle’s a romantic lady; they’d both be somewhat particular about doing things right (whatever that means). They’re also both capable of incredible patience, as passionate as they are about each other.

(Actually, I don’t think he had intercourse with Cora either, though maybe everything else. Otherwise, how could she be so very certain that any child she bore wouldn’t be his?)

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I’d say he’s no saint, but I love him as much as you do. He’s done some particularly nasty things that are hard to forgive, even if they’re understandable.

–The Snail Incident–completely unjustifiable, as Bae pointed out as it was happening.
–Killing Honora–just because she heard them talking about the dagger.
–Killing Milah–he could have gotten the bean and just let her go, but he let his anger and self-loathing get the better of him and killed her anyway, and then cut off Hook’s hand and let him suffer. It was understandable, but cruel.
–Getting Victor and Jefferson to give Regina false hope about reviving Daniel. And he knew he was creating a monster when he did it (possibly two, given his words to Victor); he knew he was being cruel and why–and that she would ultimately have to kill what she loved most to cast his curse. But this was the point in his manipulation of Regina that is the hardest to justify.
–Beating Moe. (Who later deserved it but at that moment was really just a pawn of Regina’s, and again, Rumple’s own self-loathing got the better of him.)
–Refusing to heal Greg (though given how Greg turned out and the fact that Rumple was kinda right here…AND knowing how heartbroken he was then…much easier to forgive in retrospect)
–Offering to make Bae 14 again instead of actually making things right.
–Suggesting that a vague warning that Regina was plotting something was sufficient assistance to family members who just saved his life by doing something pretty awful on his behalf.
–Beating Keith. (Okay, he was a jerk, but he was apologizing–it really wasn’t deserved unless there’s more history we don’t know between them.)
–Contemplating killing Henry. (I still don’t think he’d have done it in the end, but he WAS doing it…)
–Refusing to help the town when Gregmara had the self-destruct. (Again, understandable from the POV that they just told him Bae was dead and then immediately demanded he help them…but still.)

But, unlike Regina, we don’t generally see him harming anyone directly whom he doesn’t perceive as a threat to himself or Bae/Belle (unless we want to count the curse itself as harm…I think he’d see it as collateral damage). I think that makes him seem more sympathetic in the long term. And the fact that some people do make out on their deals with him–that he even confines himself to dealmaking in the first place–makes his interactions with other people slightly less threatening (if more menacing in its own way). He gives people some choice, which Regina generally does not. He also generally tells the truth, if not the whole truth.

And that bit of him that secretly aspires to be Charming could allow for him to be a hero if he got past his cowardice and shed the DO curse.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

@HappyEndings wrote:

In regards to King Authur story if they make the show like the cartoon version of Disney that I might like it with the “Wizard Duel” that was neat 🙂

That wizards duel is one of the most sublime trippy things ever. I demand a wizard duel between Merlin and Rumple.

Want. With Belle and the Charmings and Regina and Hook eating popcorn in the background.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

Yes, Cora had a hard life. You earlier alleged that Rumple probably made it that way; I don’t see any evidence (yet) for that claim, and refuted it to the best of my ability earlier. Her motivation for seeking power is understanding, and to that extent she is a bit sympathetic.

And yes, Xavier is the one who told Cora that love is weakness, but she chose to act on that. And nowhere is it suggested that she would be hunted down or that her children would be in danger with Rumple; Xavier, like Rumple, offered her a choice. When she debated how many people she’d have to kill to be queen and asked Rumple about going with him, he said he could offer only darkness and isolation–and, when prompted, yes, love. But those things are not the same as danger; Rumple had more than enough power to protect her and any children they would have had at that point.

Xavier told her that love is weakness, and appealed to her inner nature and pride. He then offered her a crown and people bowing before her. She alone made the choice between the two, and her breaking Rumple’s heart was her own doing. She chose power over love, just as he’d done with Bae, but here it’s portrayed as a cold and rational choice while his was a moment of fear that he instantly regretted. (He also does this with Belle but again, though he takes a little time to think it through and smash stuff first, it seems to be more out of fear than a purely cold choice of power over love. And again he regrets it almost right away–you see how eager he is to offer her a home when Regina says she’s in trouble, and how crushed he is to learn she’s dead.) I think the only glimmer of regret we ever see from Cora about it is the “This would have been enough” that might be directed at Gold as she’s dying. Perhaps she can’t regret because she doesn’t have her heart, but regardless…she made a choice of her own free will.

And then proceeded to terrorize Regina. Honestly, I think Regina’s dark doings are more a result of Cora’s manipulations and teaching than Rumple’s, with the exception of the actions leading directly to the Curse.

BF came to help August/Pinocchio because Henry said they needed her (as best I can guess). She didn’t come to Snow because Snow didn’t get to make her wish (as RG clarified). She didn’t come to Regina because Regina never asked. BF has no obligation to help those who do not ask for it, and even when they do ask, her powers to help are limited (she couldn’t help Rumple follow Bae, she couldn’t fix Geppetto’s parents, she couldn’t help August until he died trying to save the town).

And debating with you, while acknowledging our biases, is not the same as ignoring politeness. I don’t think anyone has attacked you personally. Yes, we all love our favorite characters and that colors how we see things in the show. You’re welcome to your headcanons as well, but we’re going to argue back if you try to insist that we’re wrong (or the show itself is wrong) because something you believe happened hasn’t been shown in the show (or at least stated in an interview or something).

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

Heh, I was dressing like Belle before Once. Moreso now (MORE OPTIONS).

You know you’re a Oncer when your sister sets a timer every time you bring up the show to see how long you can go without mentioning it.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

Also, as for “all children call on the BF,” um, no. She doesn’t always come, either–Snow TRIED to call her and got Cora instead. (Yeah, Blue didn’t come because Snow never got to actually make her wish, but still.)

So, no, not all children call her and she doesn’t always come to them if they don’t. We don’t have any reason to believe Regina called her EVER and things didn’t get horrible for Regina until Daniel was dead anyway.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

Oh, I won’t argue that Regina’s a coward, though I think it’s more pride than bravery that carries her through.

And I admit that as a Dearie, Belle, and Rumbeller I am very very partial to Rumple and less forgiving of Regina’s than of Rumple’s faults. No question I’m biased, though there are plenty of times I want to shake Rumple for what he does. (And so many times I just want to cuddle him and make it all better.)

And yes, Cora did love Regina. That doesn’t mean she didn’t abuse her or take away her agency a LOT. She also wasn’t able to express real love until her heart was returned; it was only a partial love. Rumple observed that the people whom you love are capable of inflicting the most pain, and that’s exactly what we see with the Cora-Regina relationship. Regina loves her mother, but she still chose to send her to another world rather than be with her, and then chose to send Hook to kill her, and then chose to help Rumple try to kill her rather than have her come to Storybrooke. Cora loves Regina, but shows it by trapping her with magic when she doesn’t do precisely what Cora wants, and killing her true love in front of her, and forcing her to get engaged to a king who only wants someone to be a mother for his daughter. She frames Regina for murder, knowing that will break her will and make her more susceptible to manipulation, and uses her weakness–her love for Henry–to get her to cooperate in her own plans to seize the DO’s power.

And you can blame all that evilness on her not having her heart; fine. But here’s Cora in 216, with her heart: “I want their knees to crunch on the stones…” “Bloodlust…” “Fifth in line for the throne. That’s a lot of bloodshed.” “I want to rip out his heart.” And then her actions, which are stronger than words–she rips out her own heart so she can reject a person she claims to truly love and break his heart in the process.

That’s how Cora treats the people she actually loves. Rumple didn’t make her that way; he only gave her access to her magical power. (Which Adam has said requires someone to be born with a spark, and then training, so she had the power all along and just didn’t know how to use it yet.) And I see no evidence whatsoever that he was involved in any of her choices beyond teaching her magic, before or after she ripped out her heart.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

Oh, I know. But I’m limiting my kills to those we’ve seen on screen, though more than one person can be responsible for a particular kill (and ordering your guards to kill someone counts). Claude and his buddy are the only people we’ve -seen- Hook successfully kill.

He’s come close but failed with:

Cora
Belle
Rumple
and Emma

And could easily have killed Archie, while he assisted both Cora and GOAT in plots to kill Regina.

Likewise, I fully believe that Cora, Rumple, and Regina have all killed more than we’ve seen on screen. But I’m not going to estimate those because we have no actual canonical evidence for more deaths than they’ve shown.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

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