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Nah, I think he was honest about the tape. His using the same trick as he did with Zelena makes a nice parallel (which this show LOVES and so do we), gives Hook a chance to reveal the truth about Zelena through surmising later if need be, and more importantly, gives Rumple an actual back-up plan should Hook suddenly want reveal the truth to Emma–actually having something on the tape to show Emma means that he can discredit Hook to cover himself.
As for the hand, once he had played his game with it and gotten blackmail material on Hook to balance their powers again, there was no reason for him to lie about what he had done. I think he was honest about playing a mind game on Hook, and I wonder what he would have done if Hook had failed to act as he suspected–perhaps congratulated the pirate for actually doing what he was finding very difficult?
It also points to Rumple’s own character development. He’s struggling to change at that point in the game. He’s got this enormous temptation that’s compelling him to lie to his wife, use her as an alibi, and keep the dagger that he promised his son he would give up to Belle. He knows full well he’s sinking back into his darkness, and here he sees someone he’s never had reason to like sashaying around like change is easy. So he undermines it, tests it, proves to himself that he’s not the only “reformed” villain who isn’t as reformed as everyone thinks. It’s a nasty trick to play, but it’s part of how he’s dealing with his own dissonance between what he wants to be and what he believes he is–it’s easier if you feel like you’re not the only one. It helps him justify what he’s doing to himself in a twisted way. He can’t change any more than the pirate can, so he might as well get the best ending he can out of it for himself.
He doesn’t get the same satisfaction or security out of tricking Hook further on the contents of the tape or on the hand’s ability to affect Hook’s behavior, once he’s done with his game.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
I think we can trust that Rumple was honest to Killian about the tape and the hand (after he took it back). We saw him use magic on the tape and it paralleled what he did with the tape of Zelena’s death.
While obviously this show likes to upset our expectations sometimes, it’s just too confusing to assume nothing we’re seeing is as presented. So I think Rumple’s “confession” about lying to Hook about the hand was truth, even if things he said earlier in the episode were manipulations/lies. It explained things neatly and made sense for his goals at that point in his plans.
The only reason not to accept that confession as truth is if you don’t want to believe that Hook would hit a guy who was interrupting his date, or would be scared of his past tendencies still being there. But we’ve seen that Hook, while working towards some kind of redemption for Emma, was quick to return to rather vicious piracy when he was tested in The Jolly Roger. Without hope of Emma to spur him on, he was perfectly willing to kill and in the process condemn an innocent man if that’s what it took to get his ship and keep his reputation.
And while we haven’t seen him hurt nearly the numbers of people we’ve seen Rumple, Regina, or someone like Cora hurt, he has killed before and it’s suggested that he’s been quite ruthless as a pirate off screen. He’s sided with baddies (like Cora, Greg & Tamara, Regina…even Rumple when he was being merely blackmailed and not controlled) as often as with the good guys, which means that even when he doesn’t approve of their methods/crimes, he’s complicit.
Hook’s not entirely evil and he’s come a long way since he gave up his revenge motive, but he’s also not the perfect hero he wants to be for Emma (and we’ve only explored a little bit what would happen if the carrot of Emma’s love were taken from him completely…but it doesn’t look like it’d be good). Are you really a hero if you’re only doing it for someone else’s love? I think that’s what Rumple was testing…and Hook hasn’t passed that test quite yet.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Rumple would beat Discord, but Discord would actually enjoy it. And then Belle would make all of them tea (including Fluttershy).
As for Rumple vs Loki…
Let’s just call it off and give them both HUGS. ALL THE HUGS. They just need cuddles!
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Rumplestiltskin would beat Dumbledore, but then Harry would be his undoing.
Who would win: Voldemort vs Sauron?
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Dang, don’t know the name, but I know he played Hitler once…
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Discord, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
WR, I disagree with you about Zelena being fated to cast the curse. If fate was actually driving things at that point, then it went exactly as fate wished.
But remember why Rumple chose Regina? Zelena had become infatuated with him. She convinced herself that he was the only person who saw promise instead of wickedness in her (perhaps after her mother), and she loved how he taught her to use her powers instead of holding them in. She fell for the teacher, and needed him to reciprocate that love–that’s part of why she tried to kill Regina. She was afraid of competition, because she had no confidence in herself. And Rumple realized that–and realized also that since she had become obsessed with him, the only way she could cast his Curse was to kill HIM. That made her a threat.
Also, the slippers suggest this is before Rumple pulled the whole Frankenstein trick on Regina to convince her that she wasn’t going to get Daniel back with magic and get her back on track to learning what he wanted her to. So his corruption of Regina was still in its infancy at that point.
As to that: Regina called for his help the first time. He didn’t push her–he just waited for Cora’s abuse to do its job (and probably foresaw that waiting would work). He did not force her to do that, and while he encouraged her to use the mirror and magic for the first time, he didn’t force that either.
And she loved it, even if it scared her.
And the next scene is her riding for freedom, escaping the marriage she didn’t want; Rumple stops her and she gives him back the magic book. He doesn’t stop her, he doesn’t force her to turn back; he just asks (granted, manipulative) questions about her feelings on magic now that she’s used it. And when she voices her fear that magic will turn her into Cora, Rumple promises that it’s entirely up to her whether it will or not. Despite his recent turn to lying, Rumple generally tells some version of the truth. Regina then chooses to go back to Leo (and this is never really explained, though Cora did tell her how to run things before she went to Wonderland–and we notice Regina eventually does just what Cora suggested with the private guard etc), and chooses to learn more magic from Rumple. When she learns that there is no way to bring back Daniel, she chooses to go back to Rumple, kill someone, and prove she’s ready for more. He manipulates, but never forces her to make any of those choices. And all that is LONG before she is in the Evil Queen mode.
The moment that Cora killed Daniel, Regina’s heart hardened; the very next day she was wishing a ten-year-old had died. That was before Rumple was even in the picture as far as she knew.
Regina’s a complex character and definitely a victim of Cora’s abuse and Rumple’s manipulations, but she is also a woman who chose to embrace her inner darkness to the fullest extent at one point in her life. She got there by gradual steps and we seem to be seeing her escape it by gradual steps as well. Her crimes, however, are her own doing. It’s not okay to abuse someone else just because you were abused; it’s merely more understandable (and statistically more likely, as I understand it). Nor does the fault of your crimes fall upon your abusers’ heads.
If Once weren’t a fantasy, the violence and crime we’ve seen from our favorite characters would be the sort of thing that would have Regina locked up, at minimum, for the rest of her life (Rumple, too, and Hook, and even possibly the Charmings depending on how good of lawyers they got). We’re rooting for people who are not good to become good, in a world where good and evil are set at extremes and it’s okay for a character to dabble in both ends of the spectrum and still be likable. That means that, to a degree, we have to accept what the show tells us about the world to work out where the characters are in their arcs–and the show has told us that Marian’s action was brave, good, selfless, heroic, and that she wanted to protect her family. It’s shown us that Regina was wrong in context to condemn Marian to death. And yes…it’s shown us that Regina is constantly losing, and it’s not always her fault (but mostly so far, the actions of the characters HAVE driven their downfalls–Rumple’s lies about the dagger led to his banishment etc…so we’ll see where they’re going with Operation Mongoose).
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Wouldn’t it be fun to have a party with some of our characters’ dads in one place? Not that I expect that will happen, but I like the concept.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
P
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
*hugs everyone* Lisa’s going to be missed greatly around here…I’m so sad to learn she didn’t make it.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
