[Keb]

No, he has to kill Hook, as he needs his heart for the final step of freeing himself from the dagger.

But yes, he’s going to enjoy it. Hook humiliated him when he was powerless, took his wife (caveat, yes, Milah had agency in that choice, but he already killed her for leaving his son motherless), and then tried to kill Belle and nearly killed him, too. He only let Hook live because he had other priorities going on to distract him, and then he needed Hook to save Henry so they made a truce.

And as I said, he DOES take a sadistic pleasure in demonstrating his ultimate power over those he believes wronged him. Hook has wronged him repeatedly; there is no love lost between the two men. (Has he wronged Hook? Oh yeah. Where’s the Rumple gif for that? You know the one I mean.)

[Keb]

I think Rumple is evil, because he believes he’s evil, and that’s partly the influence of the Dark One Curse.

But he DOES show a sadistic pleasure in hurting and killing anyone he believes has wronged him (or those he loves). He does enjoy demonstrating his power over other people. We understand that it’s at least in part due to the fact that he was oppressed, outcast, and abandoned in his pre-DO days, which makes it easier to sympathize even in those moments when he truly crosses a line. (And there are a lot of those and I still love that stupid imp.) (I mean, if you can forgive him for snailing strangers & slaughtering his mute maid & killing his first wife & toying with killing Henry & beating his future father-in-law over a cup whose meaning the poor man couldn’t have the slightest clue about…sucking Emma into a hat when she’s actively begging for it is kinda low on the Evil scale…)

And it’s important to remember that to gain the DO power, one has to face his dark side and give in to it. That’s what we got from 404–he didn’t turn away when Zoso dared him to kill him. He committed murder BEFORE the curse. That’s how he got it. (Oh, and arson.)

Rumple is not an innocent man at all, from that moment forward. It’s true that when Zelena was controlling him, he wasn’t 100% responsible for his actions (which include threatening the life of a 5 year old, another dark line–hurting kids even in theory is a big one for me–and the way that played it seemed like it was his taking advantage of an opportunity to accomplish what Zelena demanded rather than her telling him to threaten the kid). But as he said to Belle in 320, he had done a lot of awful things before then. Even since being free of Zelena’s control, he’s killed two people that we’ve seen, and very nearly killed a third. And he’s certainly intending to kill Hook.

Those are all evil acts, even if his ultimate goal with the hat is understandable (freedom? definitely understandable after what he’s been through. A way to protect Belle? A way to bring back Nealfire? I’m still hoping there’s more than just POWER.)

And I think Rumple would be the first to admit that he’s evil. He as much as did in his speech to Emma before leaving her to the hat. He also doesn’t believe he’s capable of changing, or of going back to the good man that Bae and Belle believed he could be.

I think perhaps that’s part of what make Rumple fascinating and a little endearing; he owns his evil, but he’s not happy about being evil (though he does enjoy having the power he felt he was denied for his first 40-50 years of life). Even in the moments when he seems to get the most pleasure from his evil acts, like when he takes Hook’s heart, it’s a sort of crazed pleasure. Part of him wants to be a good person and a hero; he just doesn’t believe he can, so he gives into the darkness. We saw that outright in Lacey–the way he gives up when Lacey declares she doesn’t want to be with him, and gives in to his frustrations…and then when she’s like, ooh, power, he’s like, okay, cool, shrugs, and goes right back into beating Keith. That shrug there where he just gives up on being good…twice…that’s what I heard echoed in his speech to Emma where he talks about how all the good he ever did just got undone.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I love the Rumbelle storyline (the tiny tiny bits we get of it anyway, and the beautiful headcanons we fans build around those snippets) enough that yeah, I’ll wait for them to tell me what Rumple’s after enough to suck Emma into the hat for.

I still believe that his choice to use Emma was framed as a golden opportunity he couldn’t pass up, rather than a desire to harm Emma; I don’t think he’d even considered it until she begged him to remove her powers. He did lie to her initially about his plan, but when she asked whether she’d be all right afterwards, he was (for Rumple) reasonably honest. The line that sticks out for me is when he tells her outright that she doesn’t need to change. It’s buried in his otherwise honest assessment of her that he’s still using to manipulate her into giving him her power, but I think there’s a part of Rumple that didn’t want to hurt her. And I think that was there on the screen, not just my headcanon. The phrasing of things in a couple of places…

“I don’t have to betray the whole town, just you. And, I’m afraid, Miss Swan.” He doesn’t mind betraying DQ for this chance; getting the savior’s power probably would be enough for him to free himself from the dagger almost immediately. But the afraid notes a bit of reluctance in his betraying Emma. Not enough to stop him, or keep him from being a mite disappointed when she chooses not to go in the hat–he was very close to his goal–but the reluctance is there.

Someone in another thread compared it to the moment when he was toying with killing Henry on the playground, and I think it IS a very good parallel to what’s going on with him here. He doesn’t want to hurt Henry, but the suggestion that he should and can has been put there by Lacey (and of course his ancient plan to just kill the boy in the prophecy), and that doing so will help him reach his goals. He’s also in a dark place there–his son wants nothing to do with him, his girlfriend isn’t really the woman he loves and likes him badder than bad, and he’d just killed off another ex in order to survive the first ex’s lover’s murder attempt. (This really is a soap, isn’t it?) But his goal there was eternal life and at least something like happiness with Lacey.

The hat’s working similarly on him, I think. His son’s dead and he just murdered the woman who controlled him and tortured him for a year. And the hat’s promising him everlasting power–and freedom. The pull of what he wants is stronger than his desire not to hurt people he cares about, or he wouldn’t be lying to Belle.

I’m…rambling I think.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

Emma’s story works for me, and part of that is her accepting/believing things. It does occasionally get plot-hammer treatment, but it’s played out well by the actors and works well within the storylines. It also gets mirrored and resonated by the other arcs, so I’m cool with it even when it is plothammery.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I believe they will, but I really want to see Rumple have to work to win her back. That’s the story I want from them.

And I’m hoping we’ll get to see Belle having to deal with her own emotions some more, too…she can’t just trust Rumple to save or validate her. He may have given her the first chance to be a hero, but she’s also got to believe she can do it on her own.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I initially really liked Robin Hood, so I was annoyed when they made him Regina’s pixie-dust soul mate because I had a feeling it would go poorly. I had no idea that they would make him so unlikeable to try to make this relationship work, or that it was even possible.

Initially, I didn’t like the ship because of Roland. I knew (and I was right) that a kid around Regina was going to find himself in danger. She doesn’t have the best track record with kids she’s been interested in mothering. (And saying this DOES not discount her love for Henry in any way shape or form but she DID hurt him and has put him in danger several times as a result of her being his parent. He told her as much in early S2.) Snow White was also officially her stepchild, and she wanted to adopt Owen & Hansel & Gretel, too. Yeah, that went well.

Still, I was willing to accept that it was going to happen and hey, at least Regina gets some romance, yay.

But that was before Marian came back from the dead and was revealed to have been slated for execution/murder by Regina (I’ll accept that in the present timeline Regina didn’t actually murder Marian, or she’d be dead, but she certainly intended to.)

Now it’s just so ugly and the way they’ve been playing off Robin’s (legit) dilemma is even worse than David Nolan’s horrific blundering. I think the breaking point for me was when he and Regina were standing over Marian’s frozen body more or less debating whether to let her live or not. Yeah, it was about whether Robin would trust Regina with his wife’s heart, but the way they dithered, it FELT like they were trying to decide whether letting her die so they could do what they really wanted would be okay.

That aspect, even more than the fact of the adultery, is what really gets to me.

Also, as far as Regina’s redemption arc (which I realize is far from over), it does NOTHING for her to have her seeing that once again the only way she can have a happy ending is to take it away from someone else (in this case, Marian & probably Roland, who like any kid would probably prefer to have his bioparents together in an ideal world). We have seen NO reason for Robin not to love Marian except that he moved on (reasonable) and now loves Regina (okay, but since when is love mutually exclusive?); there’s little reason he couldn’t fall back in love with Marian if he loved her once. He’s choosing not to do that, choosing to violate both his AND Regina’s moral codes (Regina DOES believe it’s wrong or she wouldn’t have told him it couldn’t happen again).

I know I’m saying very ugly things but I’ve never NOTP’d a ship as hard as this one and I don’t know if that’s what A&E want or not, but that’s what’s happening for me. I realize there are cracks in all the ships, even Snowing, but this one is actively hurting both the people in the ship and people outside it, by its very existence.

 

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I don’t think she’s going to instantly forgive him, but I do think, if they’re true to her character, she is going to blame herself at least in part for what’s happened or at least for not seeing it sooner.

She IS strong and brave, but she doesn’t always believe that about herself. And the things she wants most seem to be:

–A happy ending with her true love, Rumple, and her family (she reconciled with her father, after all, and she seems to enjoy babysitting Nealflake)

–To be a hero (we’ve seen her do this a few times, but it crushed her that Rumple wouldn’t let her help save Henry–for two reasons, she wants to be a hero and she wants him to need her)

–Libraries (who doesn’t?)

–To see the world & have adventures that don’t go horribly wrong

 

(It just struck me as I was writing this that Belle’s adventure with Anna fits perfectly into what she said to Dreamy in the Outsider about sticking to her books. Gah, feels.)

She can’t go see the world because curses/realm hopping issues/ice walls, at least right now.

She has a library (that keeps getting villains and drunks breaking into it)

She’s been a hero a few times but a lot of it seems kind of futile to her at the moment, or feels like luck/someone else’s work to her. (It makes sense if you are insecure like she evidently is–like, when she used the potion to put a shield around Storybrooke, she didn’t feel like a hero because it was just a little thing that Rumple had set up, so it didn’t feel like she was actually doing anything. May not be healthy, but I suspect this is where her head goes sometimes, especially after seeing Family Business.)

She’s married to Rumple and thinks he trusts her more than she deserves. She also thinks he has reformed, and she’s got some pretty good evidence–the man freakin’ DIED to save the town (and her). That’s serious hero stuff. She was worried he would hurt Zelena, but she SAW footage of Zelena doing herself in. He’s played with the dagger with her enough to give her good reason to believe he’s really trusting her with it.

And all of that falls to pieces when she realizes he lied. That’s the main thing she’s got going for her right now.

We, the audience, know that she’s strong and capable, but she has to believe it about herself, and she doesn’t always. She’s much better at believing in other people, whether wrong or right.

 

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I agree that will be part of the price, but I think for him, losing Belle was something he always expected. He doesn’t feel worthy of her (just as she doesn’t feel worthy of him atm, because she believes he has changed and is a hero). He probably assumed that if he didn’t pull everything off well (which he thinks he’s managing), Belle would leave him.

But he probably thinks that’s better for her anyway. He has let her go three times before because he doesn’t believe she should be stuck with him. He’ll do it again, sadly and reluctantly, if he thinks she’s better off.

How much more crushing if he realizes that what he’s done has hurt her in ways he can’t protect her from, even by severing their relationship?

It would echo Regina’s lies about how she was received by her father, too.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

On the heart issue: I think that a) they don’t really care so much about the consistency with the heart colors unless it’s a plot point; here it wasn’t.

But b) it was a night shot, with two characters wearing all black, and they wanted the heart to be visible. So it’s possible that even if it was as dark as it should be, it would still glow a little more brightly both for visual contrast and because of the conditions.

It’s annoying but there were many other things to be MORE annoyed about so I’ll let that one pass.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Keb]

I’m just happy she still exists.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

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