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Hello, old friends! So much news, and I have not stopped by in so long, even to lurk. Truthfully, I have not watched this show, read reviews or anything. For other, more serious political reasons, I got back on twitter. I am not following most of you, since I am seasons behind on shows and do not want spoilers more than I can help it. I did follow Rumplesgirl and old ‘ “Saint Shatner” for kicks, saw a thing about J. Mo, realized what that could mean. So I logged in to say hello.
I missed those wide ranging discussions we used to have, far beyond just the feelings of Emma and Neal. Now, I am more worried about villains in the real world, and the only thing I truly have to “ship but not really ship” is my country with Democracy. I do hope you all stay well, enjoy whatever pursuits of happiness you have. One day, I will catch up on this show, when it is on Netflix.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Happy Birthday Wicked Regal! / ??!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I suppose I picked a good day to wander by then, so I could wish RG a Happy Birthday.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Hello…it’s been forever. I was going to make an Adele joke there, but I have limited time to type! So hope everyone is well. I’m doing fine.
I’ll start with the reason I wanted to log in rather than just lurk and surf, and that’s the Neal and Emma scene from the 100th episode. Someone linked the clip so I watched it. It was touchingly acted, but at the same time, it really doesn’t make sense for Neal to be aware of what’s happening after his death far as Emma’s quest to save Jones, but then utterly chill and unconcerned about Rumple doubling-down on darkness, and Emma dragging Henry along, plus also not a word about Henry and Regina’s reconciliation? If apparition version of “Neal” can somehow intuit that things will not go the way Emma thinks, enough to care to warn her, then well, he shouldn’t need to have her tell him about Henry. Logic was never this show’s strong suit though I guess. Then there was the odd overlap in the way Emma says she would have tried to save him, if she had known she could do that sort of thing, but before she asks he’s telling her it won’t work because he moved on. The whole thing made more sense to me if that was meant to be Emma’s subconscious working through the cognitive dissonance she’s feeling about her commitment to be with Jones no matter the risk to the other people she loves or what she has to forgive him for doing, versus her “let it go” attitude when it came to Neal. With Jones, she may have some heroic complex to save him (she can talk to Belle about that) but also guilt over her choices as Dark Swan and turning him into a Dark One, but the way the story plays out the main focus is on how “true” her love for him must be. So I’ll actually be shocked if they don’t have the magic moment soon that gives the Jones/Swan relationship special magical true love status….its what this sort of narrative normally would head towards…but these writers love shocking twists and writing snark more than anything, so who can guess?The only thing I could be sure of though, is they are done with Neal. .
That whole Neal/Emma scene seemed nothing more than a nod to the past for episode 100 rather than character development or signs of things to come. MRJ in one interview someone posted definitely seemed to be saying it was a kind of bookend, a bit of closure, and I completely understand and respect his point of view there. He’s done with this show, as I think he should be because what he wants from his acting career is not going to be found in a show that’s written and produced the way this one is.
That leads me to the next big thing, the Dorothy/Ruby love connection. On the whole, I’m going to praise the show for that one, though yes, I’m still not watching and just reading recaps and seeing a few clips. With that limited information, it sounds to me like Wolf/Kansas or whatever it is anointed by shippers, got about the same sort of story as Ariel and Eric, or Aurora and Phillip. I get why some fans are upset though, because they could have done so much more with it with a slower build like what everyone anticipated with Mulan of the pro-noun game.
Speaking of Mulan…what’s next for that character? I see the rumors about Robin’s funeral, and I haven’t seen anyone speculate that the funeral is Mulan’s. If the Network killed the planned romance arc for Mulan, might the writing team (or the actress request) the character be killed too? She was supposed to be part of Robin’s “Merry Men” at least off-screen, so it could work for the same people like Little John plus Ruby to be at a funeral for her, and set up high stakes for some new threat. Not trying to create hope, and I feel for those who like, Wicked Regal are Outlaw Queen fan. Still not a huge OQ fan, but somehow that relationship has grown on me, actually, to the point that I kind of am hoping Robin isn’t being unceremoniously tossed aside. If he is, well he’s just a victim of the pattern these writers have of not being able to write for a basically good at heart, reformed male thief. He can join Hopper, August, Neal and Will at abandoned character island. So for now, much as I always loved Mulan, I’m going to sort of hope its her funeral and not Robin’s, and I’m kind of shocked I feel that way, but there it is. Maybe its because I have only read recaps that I’m even having a thought like that, or the motivation to log in and comment on it!
I started watching The 100, and I have to say, even with rumors of some friction between the writing team and actors, most storylines seem to still have a sense of purpose to them that I never really felt with OUAT. Again, that could be because I’m not actively seeing what other fans think of anything–I still have to wonder how I might have reacted to OUAT if I had never gotten into the forum habit. It’s never going to cease to annoy me that some fans are so adamant about painting Neal as the Worst of the Worst, despite later developments in terms of his remorse and all the context given for why he made his original decisions, not to mention Emma’s perspective about it, nor her developing a more forgiving attitude to others who have straight up tried to kill her or leave her for dead. The constant, continuing complaining and campaigning from certain segment, especially when targeted at the ACTOR on his new show is beyond ridiculous. MRJ seems like a stand-up guy, especially with his Bullies Keep Out campaign–and something I read about the 100 really made me wonder as there was an actor who felt bullied by the main producer on that show. How much weird behind-the-scenes things go on in television? So many things never get revealed, until years after–and there’s a reason the term “casting couch” exists. Decisions in Hollywood are not made solely on the basis of what makes a good story, who’s good at conveying emotions as an actor or even eye-balls for advertising. So at least whatever did go down on OUAT or is going on right now, MRJ left on decent enough terms that they went out of their way to write one more scene for the character, even if it didn’t quite make sense. I’m glad to see his new project is getting some critical acclaim, though I still haven’t had a chance to watch it. Part of that is that I saw Sleepers, and it feels a bit derivative of that story, which was kind of not escapist, light and relaxing enough for me. I’d have to be in the right mood I think.
Anyway, all I have time to say, so take care!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Happy Birthday Ranisha!!!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Aww thanks Rainbow! I will be around more often for at least the next two months. It’s weird, cause I’m reminded of you guys all the time. If it’s not a yellow bug in the streets or a bison in a museum, it’s two parent swans swimming in the pond with baby swans aka ugly ducklings. ^^
Hey! There is always something there to remind me….I kind of find that too, that every few days something will pop out. Seriously, a week ago I saw a rodeo show, and they had a group of bison in one number. In the parking lot, I ran across a yellow vw bug. I do not always have time or something to say, but I enjoy reading everyone and seeing their thoughts. I am way overdue to contribute to the Poldark thread, and am skimming the comic con stuff. Too bad my wacky cracky theory was stopped before it could start. What if Merida had been the greenie hood baby, sent back in time by Zelena, to spite Regina and Robin from raising her, and of course she wound up being Rumples mother, kept young by magic…..a Greek tragedy OUAT style, when you think about Cora and Rumple having a fling. But of course they shot down that Merida is Z&R child or the mother , so now I just hope she is not related at all so they use her more like Elsa. Either go big cray-cray or Do not try….really hope they do not make her a relative. At best, she will be like Ariel, at worst like one-off Rapunzel.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Maybe EdR is just confused a bit herself. I stumbled on a clip of her saying at that convention that her leather short shorts from the vault death scene in Quiet Minds were her least favorite wardrobe. She says something like she could not feel her back for five hours. Quite a contrast to the answer she gave to TV line a year ago, which I managed to sift out of the Internet because I remembered a turn of phrase she used about tripling her tights. Here is the link, https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/once-upon-times-emilie-ravin-talks-belles-big-204740423.html
She says straight up the wardrobe did not bother her. Did TVline just selectively edit her? We are talking about a pair of shorts, I know it is silly but her answer was like 180 different. Oh, I could not feel my back for hours versus oh such an awesome outfit and it does not bother me!
The rest of that article is sad to read too because she speaks of the adventure that would turn out to be not much of an adventure at all in Quiet Minds. Anyway if EdR can appear to flip her opinion so much on wearing a pair of shorts, well with something even more complicated about the character she plays or others in the show, who even knows what it means.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I should just quote Slurpeez’s whole post there and write “THAT”. I definitely think fandoms tend to get a little too caught up with the romance aspect, but then on this show the writers are equally to blame for encouraging some of that by their choice of how they focus the stories and the dialog they choose, things they tweet and most of all, how much they leave unsaid and offscreen.
One of my favorite things about Wonderland was that Will and Alice had a significant friendship–and one of my least favorite things about his turn on OUAT is that the writers didn’t find a way to use Will ‘s story but just went for Soap Opera 101, put him in a love triangle. Will would have worked MUCH better as a friend to Belle and Robin and give him some plot-based thing to do, perhaps building on his knowledge and time from Wonderland.
So I’ve asked myself, how would I look at Emma’s dialog in that scene if Robin, Snow, Regina, Henry, Hook or Charming said it? I think if it were Henry or Snow, I’d automatically assume it was mostly about wanting to protect Regina but also the town from what Regina could become. If Hook and Charming, I’d be less sure they care about Regina herself, but definitely wanting to stop a menace from being created. So with Emma, I think the story is more like for Henry and Snow–she’s come to care about Regina as part of her family, respects her progress to being a better person but still aware that a big pile of darkness could create a huge problem for everyone. I wouldn’t see it the same as for Robin, who mostly would be concerned for Regina, more than the affect on the town. It’s not that he’d doom the town, but more of his motivation would be how to protect this woman he loves, less worry that she’d potentially hurt others (as he’s never seemed to worry overly much about that aspect of her history). Then again, that’s partially a thing the writers do–no one really remembers Regina was the Evil Queen unless they’re pointing out how different she is now. I remember Neal giving Rumple the stink eye about using magic to knock people out, and then not batting an eye when Regina did that exact thing….the way this show is written, well, sometimes its best not to think so hard when the writers don’t even bother to explain some of the apparent contradictions in how characters behave.
Anyway, that’s how I view the context, and I think J.Mo could have crafted a nicer response that recognizes the journey and development of her character’s attitude towards Regina as opposed to trying to play up “this was just about saving the town”. It reminds me a little of J.Mo saying something like people were confused about why Emma would save Neal in Neverland, and reminding people he was the one who knew the way off the island, like that was all that went through Emma’s head, implying Emma didn’t really care about Neal at all other than for his practical value. In trying to avoid saying something that would make an action that wasn’t in her opinion a specifically romantic gesture be viewed as one by fans with a definite bias to their perspective, J.Mo winds up making it seem like she doesn’t think her character cares at all instead–and that’s hardly better, because sooner or later there’s a scene to explain where her character IS acting like she cares (even if not romantic), and it feels inconsistent with what she said before. I’m probably not explaining this well, but I think its a case of saying too much by saying too little.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
A lot to catch up on. I emphatically agree with RG about Yvette. These writers are attempting to write “complicated” feelings and situations where nothing is as easy and cut and dry as the standard fairy tale of “you only love once after you meet, sing a song, have a magical kiss and are married happily ever after”, and the writers also tend to suggest a lot of unspoken things offscreen, and introduce huge twists all the time. It’s hardly fair to suggest that the story we’re seeing is cut and dried and if we can get into the messy questions about Will, Belle, Rumple and Ana–why can’t we wonder what the writers might do with Emma and Regina, Robin and Hook, and conversely, what they might have wanted to do with Neal or might do in the future? It’s a fairy tale, and a subverted one, so there’s always going to be a sense of the possible being limited only by imagination (even if the more powerful limit is the behind the scenes factors of TV ratings in Hollywood).
I still agree with Kiki –I want MRJ far away and don’t want them to ruin Neal. Yet we should be able to talk about the character and his impact at fan events, express a desire to see him back if that’s how we feel, without being branded or tarred with “not fans of the show”, just as people who are hoping for SQ ought to be able to do the same, because the show is set up to allow for just about anything to happen because magic.
Are people not paying attention to the media these days? Given someone in the public eye for as long as Bruce Jenner turning around announcing he is now Caityln, the whole idea that we totally know a person’s inner sexual identity and preferences from their outward behaviors seems woefully outdated. So if in real life it is true that people can discover things about themselves late in life, or at least discover the courage to act on things they felt earlier despite never giving any outward sign–Emma or Regina or anyone else in this story discovering something that’s a shock to the audience in terms of expectations about their love life would hardly be the most unreal twist we’ve had in this show. People should be allowed to ask questions if that might inspire something to happen on the show, and discuss it and Yvette shouldn’t be the one to decide this is outside canon because part of the whole point of these cons is to kind of find out spoilers and to talk about fan preferences and wishes in the hopes it can influence the writers. The writers in turn want to know, because they want to keep telling a story people want to hear, the tricky part for them is trying to gauge which voices translate into ratings, and which do not. I’ve accepted that I’m likely a part of the voices that they dismiss as irrelevant to ratings, not that I ever spoke up so much or even attended a fan event– but still I’d like to think with ratings declining as much as they have that maybe the writers might want to hear from some fans besides those who pushed for this to become the show it has.
On another note, I ‘m glad I listened to Slurpeez’s advice to watch Poldark, and suddenly I can totally get the fangirl hysteria mind in a way I never have before. Because, oh my. But its a miniseries, and I feel relaxed in knowing the story will have definite progression and an end to it.
Another thing I agree with Slurpeez about, of course, to get back to SF, is her interpretation of Jen and Colin’s remarks at that convention. I nodded my head so hard reading Slurpeez’s responses that my poor always-rolling eye-balls at the OUAT writers finally wound up back in the right spots. Then I read about Yvette and they fell out again, but oh well. Anyway, what I find funniest about their answers to the question is that the actors were sitting to either side of Meghan Ory, who’s Red /Ruby was the poster child for the concept that the writers can scale up or down a character’s plot at any time when inspiration strikes. I think its kind of obvious by now that the writers and network executives really loved what they saw out of Colin as Hook and scaled up their plans by the end of Season 2. They also had to scale down their ideas for Neal, after the dismal reception of Tamara and Greg and whatever it was the writers originally intended to do with those characters other than kill them off quick. Of course, by the end of season 4, with ratings still on the decline, the writers will likely have to scale down again to make room for things they think might engage the audience the way Frozen did. I’m not sure Camelot will give them that kind of boost, but who knows. If they cast Aidan Turner, that possibly could do it for me, but my faith in these writers is so low that I think they could manage to make even him unwatchable. Luckily, there are other shows and other writers!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Maybe some of you have already discussed this, but I just came across it when surfing Barbara Barnett’s blog for another show. I thought she’d given up on OUAT completely, but she reviewed the finale.
She ends on a hopeful note, seeing potential in where they left the story but much as I wish I could share that, this show just brings out too much of a cynical side for me to share her opinion. I read the news that Socha is not a regular now, and somehow I felt like we’d predicted that even before this season 4 started, in a discussion awhile back when I was grouping Will with Archie, Red, and Neal, as characters who weren’t perfect heroes but were not selfish enough to be in the “villains to woobify” category and therefore unlikely to be interesting enough for the writing staff to do much with them long term.
Of course, that might be where Rumple is now without the Dark One powers. I see these writers picking one of two paths for Rumple right now–either they stick to the idea that his “core” is a ruthless, power hungry man who will continue to try to fight to regain his power as the Dark One, or they’ll leave him in a coma until an episode mid-season (so not a huge cliffhanger break spot) where they write him out of the show.
Again, two paths for writing him out, like August or Neal. They can attempt to give the character a (in my opinion) unearned happy Beauty & Beast Rumbelle-pleasing Shipper ending to make some of those fans happy, and push the explanations off-screen as to how he earned back Belle’s trust, or if they go the “Neal” path, they’ll have Rumple sacrifice himself and Belle will accept his death and move on, and we’ll see his gravestone next to Neal’s, with “beloved husband and father” (totally side-stepping the suggestion they’d gotten divorced). Belle will be all alone looking sad at the grave, except for whatever characters the writers want to give some screentime too, regardless of whether it makes sense for them to be mourning Rumple., so probably Hook, maybe Hood, maybe Archie for his once-a-season-cameo. But I basically expect the writers to avoid writing a scene where characters who ought to have complicated emotions talk about them because they don’t really do that on this show.
I’m also not as excited by Camelot as its never held that much fascination for me, but I realize it resonates with a lot of people, so I think Camelot will tempt some old viewers to return and some new ones to check out the show, but hard to imagine anything creating a draw as Frozen did.
On another note, I started watching izombie (the two OUAT alums are so much better on that show, Anders is chilling, and McIver’s range is good), and was reading some comments in this article about some developments in the show, and it really reminded me of things with OUAT , Neal and Emma. Basically there were a lot of people upset in the comments at the idea that the “endgame” relationship of the main character would be with a character she has a past with that the audience didn’t get to see unfold–they want to see the first meeting, and everything from that point. They also don’t care for narrative reassurances about how two characters envisioned being together and spending their lives together (that is, being willing to commit to each other) as much as seeing on-screen tension filled with chemistry and the discovery of wanting a deeper commitment. I think I’ve read similar things about Grimm (pre-the-crazy-nose-dive of Juliette). I didn’t feel the same, and liked either possibility, or rather think there’s room for story either way, whether that’s about how two people manage to overcome some supernatural obstacle that breaks them up, or whether two people just meet, fall in love and go on from there. I guess I don’t care if I see the relationship’s first moments or not, so long as the characters seem like they are bringing out good things overall in each other (normal conflicts that arise for drama aside).
Anyway, I’m out of time to connect that further to what happened on OUAT or what will happen next, but hope everyone’s having a good week.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
