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Perfect picture Heather. VCF is a guy, one guy, who runs his site. He’s said he does it because he’s a fan too, not just a businessman. That’s fine, but in my experience, and I’m generalizing heavily–but do dudes ship the same way women do? I mean, I’ve seen a ton of Bond and other films and let’s just say, there’s a term “Chick Flick” for a reason. I just don’t think VCF is all into the “emotional” connection between Emma and Killian and if he is on the CS side–it’s more a matter of self-projection fantasy like, seeing yourself as Bond or the Pirate getting the girl. More interesting than being Neal, the seemingly every-day guy who cannot catch a break.
Neal’s macho factor went up in NL, with him aiming cross bows, capturing squids, and rowing boats. Yet he didn’t “save the day” (because we still have our gender flip and our heroines will, namely Regina and Emma, but with help from everyone….it can’t just be “the guy” ). Plus he’s still not this childhood iconic character for the marketing people to slap on a poster. I’m still annoyed they never made him a poster this season after promising it was “in the works”. The “Believe” arc is seriously almost over and they obviously bothered to take him and Henry into the studio and photograph them for singles.
How hard is it to photoshop a few words? It’s not a question of cost then, but marketing strategy and I’m completely convinced it is because of the PCA nominations. They don’t want to play up anything about Neal and Emma, even if it is in the previously written and filmed storyline because the show runners want the attention they can get for the show. Whether that would make them change their plans next season and begin to start showing bad sides to Neal and even better sides to Hook, I don’t know. With a story they can always add something that makes us look at things in a new way, as they did with this Rumple’s papa story.
We KNOW they previously filmed a smaller scene of Papa Rumple running and getting caught or killed (I forget) for unpaid gambling debts, but this elaborate thing of Papa turning into Pan? Did they really have that in mind from the start? I mean of the show, definitely in mind once they had NL rights I should think. They leave room to “embroider” stories and they do go backwards to look carefully to plan the mannerisms and acting directions, so things fit in as if planned all along even if they were not. Just look at how awesome some of our not-so-crack theories could be? It would fit perfectly yet it often ends up not being at all what the writers were planning. We’re not even professionals at it as the are with the intent to sit down and arc out a season!
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Slurpeez, your idea of a freaky friday swap would be hilarious from a shipping perspective.
It would make “Hook” biologically Henry’s father now, and Neal wouldn’t be in a biologically related body. I don’t know, it’s just all kinds of wacky whacked weird, would force people who insist on a ship for shallow reasons to think and I love it for that.
I think most of us feel about the “bio dad” thing the way CSers (ok most of us) do about Colin’s looks–it is not the most important part of the ship but it is a part of the appeal all the same. If Hook were also shown as a guy eager for fatherhood, with an instant connection and affection for Henry, that would help CS out in my view, because to me it was not the blood bond but Neal’s attitude that sold him as Henry’s father. I also felt sympathy as Neal did not leave because he fell out of love, cruelty or was selfishly protecting himself–even if it looked that way for a long time to Emma as she did not know about the curse.
Hook may be written many ways with Henry when they meet. We all can make guesses from how he approached Bae but the situations were different. He was using him for self-preservation until Bae charmed him. It was not enough to know he was Milah’s son intellectually. He saw his own loss and loneliness in Bae, that was when he wanted to take him in, forget about trading him to Pan.
This is very parallel to Owen and Regina. At first she wanted to get rid of him and his father, but he charmed her when he showed her consideration. Hook too was completely genuine as was Regina–but it did not change their attitude in general to the rest of the world. Regina reacted horribly to Owen’s rejection even if she did not want to harm him (even years later she did not, until he tortured her). She did not feel guilt though or that she owed him much consideration or apologies for what she did to his father. Hard to tell with Hook and Neal but outwardly Hook says he was a “friend”. Neal’s father also directly harmed Hook unlike Kurt, so there are differences in the situation too. Ultimately though, while Regina and Greg ended with no love lost, it would see that Neal is not seeking revenge in the least for the things Hook has done.
So Neal is not Greg, anymore than Hook is exactly like Regina. There are some things in common but how meaningful the parallels are? That’s hard to say as these writers love to repeat certain themes and so there’s always comparisons we can draw, symbolic or moral in nature to the extremely superficial.
So on spoiler gate It should be good to gauge how the writers portray Henry with Hook. Will he be in cute polite kid mode as with Tamara? Or in angry sulky mood, as he was after the lie reveal? If SF is going to work, I feel the writers have to make it clear that Emma won’t bend to what Henry wants, just because he wants it. At the same time, she shouldn’t be written as choosing someone who doesn’t have concern and care for her son–please don’t Milah her! It would not be a good character development for her to say “I’m putting myself first and choosing this man, so sorry son, you have another mother and a father, and I’m done. I’ve suffered so much in my life, I deserve devastating, earth-shaking, pirate….happiness.” I’m paraphrasing some things I’ve seen around Tumblr there. Emma should be happy but her son’s happiness also is a factor. Yet children often don’t understand adult relationships. There was a bit on How I Met Your Mother on this, where immature, pernnenial childish man Barney wants his mother to break up his bio dad’s marriage to get his bio-parents back together. It’s that kind of thing I don’t want to see, where Henry forces Neal and Emma despite what would make Emma happy. If they’re going to do SF, it has to be clear in the storytelling that it is NEAL she wants, not just “Henry’s father”. Well…a body swap would definitely muddle all of it up and would be one way to top the messed up shock of Pan being Malcom!
I know they’d never do it, but I think Adam and Eddie probably are the way I am about all the fan stuff. Or would be if it were my show. They need to make money. They need to keep fans happy. Yet they wrote something and some people are pushing them so hard to turn it upside down and backwards. I don’t even know how half-joking people are when they say they don’t have sympathy for Mal but do for PP (because Robbie is so cute). Seriously?
I mean, I do not want my show written by these girls:
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Hmm…maybe Mal corrupted the Shadow but could be either way. I do not remember the shadow telling Mal to do anything but it did take Rumple away, so did do as Mal believed. Perhaps it did tempt him offscreen, but then the way it said mal broke a rule makes me think it is a supernatural creature that always existed, a embodiment of an idea like the greek myth gods. The sandman, or a guardian of dreams.
So there is that Andersen story about a shadow that takes over, so could be what happened.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Like that cloche hat set ? I totally thought Snow and Emma were at a funeral.
In any case, the stockings she has on with the miniskirt looked more like thick wool tights. Her shirt is kind of plaid I guess, and she’s wearing her normal red leather, then she has on the same color outer covering, red, but it is now a wool coat. That’s not exactly opposite.
On this show, who can say, because they could be doing anything.
I agree with how RG answered HE’s questions, there’s nothing implausible about either theory because the show allows for a lot of odd scenarios.
I like the Tamara car wrinkle, appropriate for the car thief to get nabbed for that and additionally questioned about his fake fiance’s disappearance.
Greg did have family! An uncle he is told to contact. Remember, his family was from the home of “The Boss”. That’s a Springsteen reference but could also be an easter egg for the big bad of the back half.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I was thinking of that movie, couldn’t remember the name.
Both stories involve OZ connection from NY. I feel it might lead into more of Neal’s backstory and the device of having him in jail creates urgency that cannot be resolved with magic too easily. It brings back in the grounding feeling of being in the real world that to some extent this last half season lacked but which was part of the charm of S1 (that you had these fantasy characters in a small town).
I don’t think they’ll do the Splash /ET FBI threat again outright sort of thing but who knows.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I am sorry as I enjoyed your perspectives as a different take on many things.
I think this season has tried to throw the characters off kilter on purpose and that leads to an uneven feeling that reminds me of Season 3 Heroes Problems .
With Heroes, which I was just as fascinated with as this one, I began to feel my enthusiasm drift away until I didn’t really like or care about too many characters by the end. I think OUAT benefits from corporate Disney cross promotion so may get carried longer, but in the end, that’s not everyone’s cup of tea, so I understand why you feel how you feel.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Maybe it is something like that. What if with NL restored magic begins to expand in “The Land without” ? PP may have been systematically stealing it to feed/expand NL magic somehow?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
RumplesGirl wrote: Ah but if you’ve spent 300 years in a search for your own immortality, wouldn’t you gradually devolve from a very bad man to a sinister monster?
This. Pan has gone bonkers over the centuries. While Malcolm might have been merely irresponsible, Pan is malicious, mean, scheming and simply put crazier than a rat!
Exactly! I think Malcom aka Pan corrupted NL all on his selfish greedy own.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I know they want to avoid the expected path a bit, so I think there will be some magical crisis at some point.
Or they are not in OUR NYC at all but some parallel version, but not flash sideways. A different version like Alice’s Victorian London.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
As I said in the theory–if Neal went to NY on his own, then calls the others because he is IN JAIL, he is not going to be appearing in street scenes.
The crew are not actually IN NYC, and Adam tweeted they are doing work in studios too! That would make sense if Neal is “inside” the police station, they wouldn’t need to film MRJ walking around the streets.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
