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“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree Slurpeez and Ranisha. I don’t want to see it play out quite like that RG, but it could.
I don’t like the idea but if they’re just writing based on what fans want to see, what’s next, she tells Pan that he’s her best friend because thanks to him she realized what she needs is another baby because she’s missed out on all the fun years with Henry the same way Snow did with her? I know that’s overstating it but really if they keep up with this kind of let’s please the fans, that’s what we would have, because fans love to rag on Henry too. They also love Pan.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
What if Neal goes to NY to get his things and then encounters something strange? I don’t like the idea he is missing but he could be in a building with Henry or something.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
To be fair here, it’s not like the show itself doesn’t have the built-in idea of taking well-known characters and combining them. As a person who was onboard Hookriel, well I cannot draw a line at TPB being used for Hookiecup. I do still feel Emma ought to be her own unique character but if that is not the TPB plan well then it isn’t, but I don’t think it could have been their ORIGINAL plan.
The fact is TV is a commercial medium and they map out season to season what they can do. Adam tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth sometimes, like when he said Jared was misquoted for saying Henry has to be with his real dad. Um, Adam, it was a direct tweet. The kid’s 13, give him a break. He said it, you don’t have to agree with that opinion, and as showrunner probably should not take sides as that’s a “spoiler”. There was also something about Jane at a convention but I forget the details. She is ON FILM saying something and he said again misquoted, then had to say she misunderstood something. Riiiiiight …..well Adam’s job isn’t just to write the thing but promote the thing which is why he takes up time on twitter.
Social Media is a new thing for TV networks, and with this week’s news of Blockbuster dying out, it’s just another sign of how entertainment is adjusting to a world of digital media distribution. They want live viewers to sell to advertisers rather than DVR add skipping, who knows when they’ll see it viewers. Adam is motivated to make sure his show does well.
As an artist maybe some part of him wants to tell his “vision” but ultimately we all know there are so many limits placed upon network TV. Budgets, actors, egos, copyrights, weather, you name it but also, fan reaction. So there’s this fad of CS out there now and regardless of how intentional it was from the writer’s point of view, they are aware of it. Despite all the people who say it was clearly the plan from the start, clearly endgame even now, there’s always the possibility it was added in or its just a bit of a diversion because it IS popular. We can’t know. We may never know unless the writers reveal it or the actors do.
I am never going to believe ReHo was the plan from the start. The tattoo, the actor change, the lack of any particular obvious hints –it all just says “ok, they are embroidering this new tale now” but they are building it slowly. They did it in a way where even if it wasn’t always the plan it looks like it is being planned.
As for CS, and I’d rather call it Hook/Emma or something else other than standard “they fell in love on the beanstalk” when the writers used to say “not that she’s going to fall in love with him or anything” after that episode, and various other things, as well as saying how she’s still in love with Neal, all of it just makes me think I’d rather the writers had left Bae out of it entirely. Hookiecup is no sillier than Hookriel but because I like Bae, I find myself annoyed rather than thrilled with how they’ve set all this up given the backstory.
If he’d been Neal, just real-world-guy, her first-love, then I guess I’d think he’s just an obstacle to her romance with Hook. He isn’t though. They spent too much time setting him up as a kid, and as an adult, though his story doesn’t take center stage so far. Like Henry, there are a lot of characters who react because of him even if we don’t see him and his point of view at certain times. Yet we DO see his point of view. They did take him to the FTL and give us those season-staging scenes of him stating his goals, get to my son and my…I don’t know what she is but I want a second chance because I love her.
I liked Schmacky’s post there, yes that gave me hope, and I can’t wait to see how Rumple gets out of this. In a way it also gave me some good feels that everyone else reacted like Neal did upon hearing the prophecy–WOAH, draw your sword and back away from the Dark One! Neal may be Rumple’s son, but he is also Henry’s father and he knows more than anyone that Rumple might actually kill Henry because he knows Rumple offered to make Neal 14 again moments after hearing about Henry. He wasn’t overjoyed to hear he had a grandson and Neal SAW that. I know it gets resolved b/c of the next sneak with Wendy (seriously they did those in the wrong order!). Maybe it makes Neal’s reaction look less harsh to those who found it so. Then again they will probably be annoyed he spoke out against Rumple, but praising how Hook bravely raises his sword, just like Emma while Neal does not raise a weapon. Of course if he did, that would be bad too. Guy cannot win, can he?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
The context is so hard to guess. It is true that purple is often magic (the smoke when magic came to town, Cora’s poofing color of choice). So I’m guessing a magic potion of some kind, and they definitely look concerned. I would guess they are working on the new curse.
I think going to NY to get some magical item would make sense. Neal definitely had a lot of random things in there! Yet it doesn’t look like HIS block, so maybe it is some new character they will meet? I remember once that someone summarized Ruby as “preventing Henry from intruding on the main plot” and perhaps that’s alas, the role Neal has right now. Someone has to do it!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
All excellent points. I think Neal is amazing simply to have retained his sweetness of spirit, with a bit of a snarky sense of humor, despite the crapy hand the fate has felt him.
I completely agree Slurpeez, well said.
It isn’t that Neal is a saint or has no flaws, for he does. I do think we see the “naive” part of Bae in how he gets played by Tamara, August and Henry (when Henry ran to the well!). Even his “Thanks man” when Hook volunteers to go along to Shadow Valley. He had no idea Hook was interested in Emma until that moment in the cave.
He just wants to believe the best, but he’s had a lot of experience with the worst too, especially when it comes to his father. I think we’re going to continue to see that it wasn’t just a “one time” lapse on Rumple’s part at the portal, but very parallel to Regina and Henry, that the way Rumple chose to love Bae, perhaps even pre-curse, wasn’t necessarily the way Bae needed to be loved. That is a tough thing and a theme that repeats too in the story. Neal right now is being patient and understanding, but perhaps what Emma needs is the more aggressive confidence of Hook. Then again, maybe that rubs her the wrong way, because what she wants is space to focus and in her own time work through what she feels. We all assume what makes grown-up Emma Swan fall in love because we did not see it play out yet–even with Graham. He affected her deeply but she was not given the time with him to explore whether any part of her still longed for Neal. Plus I think what she felt for younger Neal is different than what she might come to see in Neal now. These are new sides to him, just like Hook being helpful is new. Love as Belle said is a mystery to be uncovered. In time the writers will reveal what Emma wants and needs beyond Henry. If it is not Neal, then I hope they have by that time revealed his path to happiness as well.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree with the lyrics we shouldn’t be too literal. We realized Nasty Habits was a song, but there wasn’t exactly a direct correlation between that song and what played out, now was there? We didn’t see anyone walking with a pram for instance.
This song’s lyrics in particular are very odd, and here’s a Springsteen Fan’s take on it:
http://scottpeterson.typepad.com/leftofthedial/bruce-springsteen/
New York City Serenade
“New York City Serenade” is perhaps the oddest album closer in the first half of Bruce Springsteen’s catalog. The longest (although just barely), it eschews what had already by this point, still early in his career, become a fairly standard and straightforward storytelling approach—one which he would streamline much, much further in the years to come—instead opting for a series of vignettes, almost character pieces.The track opens with over a minute and a half of David Sancious improvising on the piano and, not surprising, given his brilliance as a player, brilliantly.
New York City Serenade
Springsteen’s acoustic guitar suddenly jumps in, his jazzy interjections combining a little flamenco with some blues.And then we’re into the first verse, wherein we find Billy and Jackie down by the tracks. In what’s now thought of a Springsteen cliché, they’re in a car, but there are two things notable about this: on his first two albums, cars—in stark contrast to subsequent releases—are barely even featured, possibly because Springsteen himself had apparently not yet owned a car. The other interesting feature: the car isn’t moving, but is parked, static, a place rather than a vehicle. But the placement, by the train tracks, is also interesting, trains connoting movement, escape and even the rhythm which laid much of the foundation for rock and roll–perhaps ironic, then, that this track is in many ways musically one of the least rock and roll he would record. (Rock and roll being such a large tent, of course, it’s impossible to deny that it IS rock and roll—and if it’s not rock and roll, it’s hard to put a label on just what it is.)
The rest of the first verse is a series of descriptions and phrases which, really, don’t add up to much:
Billy he’s down by the railroad tracks
Sittin’ low in the back seat of his Cadillac
Diamond Jackie, she’s so intact
>As she falls so softly beneath him
Jackie’s heels are stacked
Billy’s got cleats on his boots
Together they’re gonna boogaloo down Broadway and come back home with the loot
It’s midnight in Manhattan, this is no time to get cute
save the final couplet:
It’s a mad dog’s promenade
So walk tall or baby don’t walk at all
“Mad Dog” being the name of Vini Lopez, the original E Street Band drummer, it seems likely this is something of an in-joke. But it’s more than that. It feels like a fine description of the music industry Springsteen was still trying to find his footing in. For his first album he’d been shoehorned by the record company and his producers into going the then lucrative singer-songwriter route, which decidedly mixed results. On this, his second album, he’d stretched out musically, heading in a much more soulful, even jazzy direction. Most of all, his music became far more assertive—walking tall, one might say.The next verse shifts focus to a prostitute who’s too discerning to take on just any customer:
Fish lady, oh fish lady
She baits them tenement walls
She won’t take corner boys
They ain’t got no money
>And they’re so easy
but who might, he hopes, be persuaded to give the singer a chance:
I said “Hey, baby
Won’t you take my hand
Walk with me down Broadway
Well mama take my arm and move with me down Broadway”
It’s interesting that on the record he changes the lyrics up slightly, singing “Hey, baby, I’m easy, won’t you take my hand,” a chance which seems to undercut his chances and, really, makes little to no sense.Then he’s back to his sales pitch:
I’m a young man, I talk it real loud
Yeah babe I walk it real proud for you
Ah so shake it away
So shake away your street life
Shake away your city life
Hook up to the train
And hook up to the night train
While this song doesn’t have a chorus—and never even uses the actual title—we move into the song’s bridge:
But I know that she won’t take the train, no she won’t take the train
Oh she won’t take the train, no she won’t take the train
She’s afraid them tracks are gonna slow her down
And when she turns this boy’ll be gone
So long, sometimes you just gotta walk on, walk on
How’d this happen? How did we go from him trying to get her to give him the time of day to him suddenly blowing her off? An argument could perhaps be made that she was originally standoffish out of a fear of rejection, but the text doesn’t really support that assertion.And then we’re into the third and final verse:
Hey vibes man, hey jazz man, play me your serenade
Any deeper blue and you’re playin’ in your grave
Save your notes, don’t spend ‘em on the blues boy
Save your notes, don’t spend ‘em on the darlin’ yearlin’ sharp boy
Straight for the church note ringin’, vibes man sting a trash can
Listen to your junk man
Listen to your junk man
Again, these lines sound good one by one, but they don’t really add up. The two things which jump out the most are the ideas of advising a jazz man to hold onto his notes, not to waste them on the blues but, rather, to save them for the church, implying gospel is inherently superior to the blues—an idea which was far from unique to Springsteen.The other thing is the admonition to pay heed to the junk man. Here the junk man seems to assume the role of the fool, the wise man openly in disguise, the idiot who’s the only one brave and insightful and treasured enough to speak the truth. In other words, after going through jazz, blues and gospel, we come to…rock and roll. Because what’s the junk man doing? The only thing a poor boy can do.
He’s singin’, he’s singin’, he’s singin’
All dressed up in satin, walkin’ past the alley
He’s singin’, singin’, singin’, singin’
It’s a nice detail, the junk man being dressed in satin.And that’s it. When we get to the end we find what we’ve got is, really, a jumble of lyrics with some nice bits which just don’t add up to much. There’s no through-line, there’s no clear progression and lyrically, the three separate vignettes don’t build to a dramatic conclusion. Looked at on paper, it’s hard to argue this might not be the weakest song on his first two albums.
But the music.
Rock and roll is not poetry. John Lennon asserted that rock and roll never got better than “a wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom.” Because the fact of the matter is that some things in life, the most important things, can’t usually be put into words clearly, that there are some things felt crystal clearly but which just cannot be translated properly. And “da doo doo doo, da da da da” or “da do ron ron ron, da do ron ron” or “sha la la la la” or, yes, “a wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom” is the closest we can get to the heart of the matter.
So the words here are fine but aren’t up to his standards. So what? Doesn’t matter. Because the music is as glorious and gorgeous as any he would ever go on to make, and the performance somehow presides over the marriage of these sub-par lyrics and the magnificent music and combine to create an absolutely transcendent recording, as lovely and powerful as any rock and roll ever committed to tape. And when Springsteen wails the final lines, as his cries of singing give way to wordless howls and the Big Man’s sax twists in and out of David Sancious’s piano, while Sancious’ string arrangement floats over the top, lifting and sweetening without overpowering or being cloying, and when the entire thing finally, inevitably, exhaustedly draws to a slow, serene, blissful close, it’s like dawn breaking after a tumultuous but magical night and it could not possibly be more right and more extraordinary and more simply and utterly perfect.
Listen to your junk man. He’s singin’.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I disliked the Wil/Cora/Mom scene and the King/Cora as it DID all remind me of Cora and Regina & Daniel, then the White King’s outfit looked like he borrowed it from Xavier. This was all kinds of creepy to me for some reason, so if they do NOT bring Cora into it and explain the similarity was purposeful within this story, I will forever think WL is a remix of their own show the same way they remix fairytales.
Speaking of remix, Sayid torturing the, oh excuse me. Jafar tutoring the bunny on the vast incentives he can provide to help him if he helps Jafar was a let down. The bunny squirmed but I could not help but think if Wil says Bloody Rabbit, I will recall this scene and say–actually he is more like bloodless. I guess Jafar did a spell so he didn’t have to worry about his clothes.
Speaking of the clothes again, I loved the Red Queen’s costumes and seeing the traditional little Disney Alice ones, but Ana’s ball dress was oddly modern, but reminded me of a black dress that Regina wore (the one where she met Hook).
Zombie Alice was not half as creepy as Sci-fi Wharehouse 13 Alice but it reminded me of her and that makes me get goosebumps. She creeped me out. I don’t like when sci-fi crosses right past dark fantasy into horror. We had a lighthearted feel on this show overall though.
I agree about the RQ’s accent scene–at least they explain it.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Alas no help on the OUAT cast version, but the movie version I mentioned is available to stream on Netflix . I streamed it a minute ago anyway.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think it does make more sense than him running from his Papa, in Manhattan but at the same time, I still don’t buy Neal ran from Emma in Tallahassee because he was afraid for himself. I guess we’ll have to see more, but August says he has to stay away and that he is in the way of her breaking the curse and the writers have talked about it in that way as a sacrifice on his part. At the same time he did cause Emma pain (as did Snow and Grumpy, to their respective loves), so it was not a clear cut “sacrifice” on his part alone. He just lost more than he gained with that decision, but it seems Emma lost even more. I say seems since she went to jail, but he then was buried in all the guilt with no money, no car as he gave her everything, trying to be there with her in spirit because he was told he couldn’t actually be there, with her pain and his on his mind. The writers stated he didn’t leave because he fell out of love with her. Now its up to them if they want to show that on screen somehow in a more direct way.
So if the reason he couldn’t actually be with her was Pan would find her and kill her or something, then that would make the logic easier to understand of why he couldn’t have stayed, why his leaving demonstrated his love for her even if it didn’t seem that way to her or part of the audience. It might even explain why he left so fast but this is up to the writers. We’re way out on reading between the lines here, when we start to imagine the details.
As fans it is tempting to put 2 and 2 together, but what we need to remember is there’s always a box. That mystery box could have anything in it. It could be -8 for all we know, and suddenly 2 + 2 isn’t 4 at all even if it looks like it now, it’s this -4 and it makes no sense, until we get more story to explain.
Neal’s experience with Pan could explain more as well some of why he didn’t come back when he got the postcard. Pan had a good understanding I’d imagine of how to push certain buttons with Neal through Tamara, get to him in a way that while not magical or taking away his free will there, definitely exploiting the knowledge of the pain he carried. Sort of how they got to Greg from this sweet little boy just looking for his dad to this zealot monster willing to do anything to even good people to stop the danger of magic. Now we know Neal wasn’t in on the hate-magic club, not to that extent, but it reminds me of August’s sort of odd question to Tamara about “Are you here to steal the magic” thinking she WAS working with Neal. We know he wasn’t working with her, but was her victim now. Of course, we realize she and Greg were Pan’s victims too, misled all along (but they all did make their choices too).
I know the writers can change and peel back things so if they want they can shift meaning at any point. So we go from S1 Regina has a hole and cannot love Henry to oh just kidding, with the curse broken she can! So much for a void she could never fill. So maybe Pan manipulated Neal through August, and it wasn’t true that he had to leave. Perhaps it was just a cruel ploy that Neal fell for, because he’s the sort who does things like makes a deal with a shadow to take him instead, not realizing the shadow will come back anyway for the rest of the kids.
I hope the writers don’t trash what they had planned for Neal to make him suddenly into this sniveling, cowardly jerk of a villain, especially if that’s how they build up Hook as a hero, but so far I am not worried. Neal is being written as the street smart man with a good heart that suffered but is not corrupted by all that loss. He still has that sense of doing the right thing, the right way, and why it is important. He might bend a few rules and take a few shortcuts, but he’s not a stone cold killer type. He cares about who gets hurt. The thing is, he’s apt to get some “plot stupidity” that is, as opposed to plot armor, things don’t go his way. He trusts people when he shouldn’t or doesn’t trust when he could and as a result things get worse for him no matter what. He’s always behind the 8 ball even with mostly good intentions. I say mostly because he’s not written as a saint, he does have his foibles.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
