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What if instead it has to do with revealing the “boss” of whatever curse comes next? We assume it is about New York, and Neal, but it could be about say characters we have not yet met. I like the idea though it would contain some backstory on Neal, and how he got to NY, along side some story of how everyone tries to get somewhere (Emerald City in Oz?!) that has a similar lure to it.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I don’t really identify with Neal per se. I think we can all relate to many aspects of various characters. I relate to his desire to put his past behind him and make his own way. I even relate to his dialect change as I’ve had that experience of wanting to fit in and assimilate with where I was.
We all do this, don’t we? I’m sure in real life we don’t run around saying “my feels” and “OTP” and whatever other handy terms we have picked up in fan culture yet it becomes natural for some of us to use these phrases when discussing here.
The same thing applies but also to pronunciation. Maybe they’ll explain Neal like a reverse Eliza Doolittle who actively learned to shed his more refined speech for more authentic street sound so he wouldn’t stick out.
In any case I never had a hard time with the concept that Bae IS Neal. I think it has been showing more this season of course, but the writers have just been dribbling out his story, because they tied it to a lot of the deeper mysteries of the season.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree with Rumplesgoldfan that some comic lighter moments have been missing a bit. I used to love those! I also think seeing Henry have a true friend (lol at the dancing around the fire bit) would be most welcome.
I don’t know if they can get Paige/Grace but it might be a good way to “check in” with Jefferson without having him on screen. She can just say her Papa’s been very busy with his new custom hat business or whatever they want to drop because I’m highly doubtful they’ll get him back.
I was so underwhelmed by Giancarlo’s cameo as Mirror that I”m not expecting much out of Red popping back. These producers just….well its the game they have to say things in the best spin they can. There’s just a point where you feel you know they’re being disingenuous. That floating head was not really even important to the scene in some way that it was Mirror telling Regina. They could have had any lackey tell her or we didn’t even need to see her reacting. The meat of the story was what happened later with her challenge to Snow, saying she’d been seeking revenge the wrong way and what she wanted now was Snow to validate her claim of rule, so she could take everything that was to have been Snow’s.
Mirror had no role in that!
Anyway it is what it is. They have a huge roster of characters that they can never give adequate screen time to again for various reasons. I’d love if they took the graphic novel or social media approach to putting some more content out about the side characters where they don’t have to film anything, but just write it up. Like a fake Storeybrooke Mirror newspaper website (Smallville did that at one point!).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Springsteen = The Boss = refernced by Kurt in show.
Soooo curious!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I just saw after my long post the questions about whether Neal is a flat character or not. People say that about Belle too, so ultimately a huge part of it is taste. Belle is not given as much screen time as Neal has been so far, nor as heavily involved in the main action of the plot, to this point.
Stories vacillate between points of view and the importance of various characters. Last season, Hook was barely on screen for some parts. The media campaign talked about Neal/Tamara/Emma, there was a whole preview on Bae (ET special). This season Hook is being promoted heavily, but at the same time, we are in NL and the other theme is #SaveHenry. Neal was included in the “men of Storeybrooke” thing too along with August and Hook all 3 in scenes with Emma. The media /fans fixated on August and Graham in S1, and on Jefferson. Who gets the limelight changes, but I think the writers downplayed Neal on purpose to hide his importance to the story, and they are still doing that to some extent, but at the same time “Neal” isn’t a draw like a legend or costumed character and he is not replacing Emma as a main character. He is a support character, but I do think that is like Henry and Belle.
Belle is a romantic love interest. Henry is a familial parent/child love interest and I think that Neal is both.
These fairytale characters could come and go, but Neal is an original creation. MRJ and Dylan work to portay someone we do not already know or think we know but for the new spin. He is out of whole cloth, just like Henry. The writers have created a long suffering character who keeps on trying despite getting kicked in teeth. He is no fairytale prince, but a street smart survivor who just wants to have a home. He is not out to be a hero but he has a core of goodness that colors how he treats others. We are seeing new sides and in general while there is some debate about what it means, he is developing as a character.
CSF should have been a thread to discuss these different views but I realize, not everyone has the same appetite for discussion and civil disagreement. I love that stuff. I am not an emotional shipper type. I don’t dream of their kisses for feels, but for me it is analysis of their characters that interest me. So I enjoy the contrast in thought with those who see Neal in a harsher light than I do, but I think those who write him off as “flat” and one dimensional, may not realize how much time the show is spending on developing him. As a matter of emotion they may not WANT to see him as anything other than an unimportant blip in the epic love story they want to see. I think there is a lot the writers have yet to reveal that they have in mind for this character but who knows.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Oh so many wonderful feels and thoughts!
Ranisha: Wonderful parallel you spotted with that Leap of Faith for all 3 of SF family. I hadn’t caught that, and while it is true that’s not necessarily “SF” romance, as a shipper we can see how parallel their journey has been made to be. I’m seeing a pattern that Neal and Emma keep being put through the types of experiences that would lead them to truly understand each other on a deep level.
Every time the show draws parallels between Hook and Emma though, it comes across to me as somewhat of a shallow thing. They’ve both been on the outside. They’ve both lost hope. They’ve both needed that second chance. Yet that is true of so many characters!
When we dive deeper into their experiences there is not as much in common. He lost hope in a fell swoop it seems, over the loss of his big brother who raised and loved him until he was a man with a stable career. Compare this to Neal and Emma who both felt constantly rejected by those who ought to love them as children. They were at one point or another on their own, trying to fend for themselves and became criminals out of a need to survive, not a need for revenge.
Even with their loss of hope, they never became so angry and jaded against the entire concept of society. They were more petty criminals, and realized it wasn’t what they wanted to be. They didn’t take pride in it. Contrast this to Hook who definitely prided himself on being a pirate. He points it out a lot, and as well had a huge grin on his face when seeing all the gold in the giant’s halls in Tallahassee. He wasn’t until recently ashamed of his choice of lifestyle and then only because it is something Emma looks down on. Up until then, he was actually proud of himself. Remember, he complimented Emma that she would make a good pirate at one point. In his mind, her willingness to steal the compass was not a desperate act justified by the need to get back to her son, it was, you’ve got skills, that’s awesome, you’re a survivor just like me, and you take what you want, when you want. That’s not Emma or Neal at all!
They are survivors, but not JUST like him. Their loss of hope was gradual but not so complete.
Neal expresses quite a bit about taking the watches for example. He is never proud he did that. He says he resisted 3 times, mentions the store has insurance (no excuse, Neal/writers…but so many people think it is…sorry, its a pet peeve every time I see my insurance rates go up :P) and then tells August not to judge him for having fenced the money as he’s giving it all to Emma. He knows it was wrong, and doesn’t delight in it. While he and Emma get a kick out of the Bonnie and Clyde routine, at the same time, both of them really want to put that behind them and get real jobs and settle down. They haven’t lost faith in humanity itself. Even after Emma ends up in jail she becomes a bail bondsperson which is a legal profession (except in a few states 😛 and maybe peculiarly American as a thing–many countries do not permit the whole bail bond thing for various reasons that it can be exploitative of people but that’s way off topic). The point is, it is not the most honorable of careers maybe, it is a bit fringe, a bit outlaw, but it is still within society’s rules.
Historically pirates are not bound by society, that’s kind of the point, though there were “privateers” who were sort of hired pirates like mercenaries who would work for any country. Hook was most definitely portrayed as “on his own” though, not like a privateer for hire, or a mercenary like Lancelot. They could always “embroider” a more noble flavor to him though, more of a revolutionary than a complete renegade, but still it doesn’t come across to me like they were showing how he would truly understand Emma’s past from his own.
This leads me to one other question from the Sneak Peek. Rumple knows you cannot trust Pan’s deals. Does Hook? I agree about the whole speculating about Hook being so nasty to do something to the Darling kids as being distasteful and I really doubt the writers would do it. I don’t want them to do it. I do think however it might be that part of the reason Hook wouldn’t take Pan’s deals wasn’t just he wanted to do the right, honorable things, but also because, he didn’t trust Pan to keep his end of the bargain. What good is working for someone when you know they’ll just betray you? Hook’s done it before with Cora, Regina and GOAT, but in those cases we saw if he had a way to go around them he tried to do that first, the moment he could. Hook’s not stupid, he plays all the angles and while I do think he’s kind of developed a new sincere attachment to Emma, I doubt he’s lost all his pirate-senses either. These writers love complicated characters who often have conflicted motivations for things. That’s why it is so easy to read them different ways.
I do wonder about Hook and Regina parallels too. Regina was sincere about loving Henry, making him her new priority in S2 despite having had a more sincere priority of having Snow suffer in S1. Henry was part of her concerns but far from the biggest part. Now S3 we saw Regina realize it isn’t just the “form” she needs but the substance of caring for Henry. At one point she thought it was ok to kill his other family, so long as he didn’t know she had a hand in it. I wonder if that’s sort of where Hook is. He couldn’t let Charming die, he couldn’t keep Neal a secret because there was too much risk that Emma would blame him as he knows he’s still earning her trust. If Pan offered him a deal, what good is it if he cannot trust Pan and would be blamed if anything went wrong?
I need to rewatch the scene where Emma confronts Hook about his words to Neal in the cave. What does Hook say when she says Pan could offer him a deal? Does he reveal that already happened twice, or does he keep that secret and try to focus attention on his desire to win her without tricks? Something about that scene just reminds me of Emma and August where she says “I’m not a liar” is exactly what a liar would say. August wasn’t lying about the particular thing she accused him of that time, but he had lied and was sort of covering up some things at the time about the role he had played in her life. So while I think Hook is trying to be above board now–there could be some very dirty laundry he hasn’t shared (well besides the Milah/Bae stuff) that might relate to Emma. At the same time, I do think it cannot be too bad since Hook is so heavily promoted. They are not going to reveal something that makes him like King George–not family anymore, stuff in cave and forget. He is still going to be on their side, but how closely they think of him, well as it is with Rumple and Regina, it may be something that fluctuates with how dire their circumstances.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I love this play too. There’s a film version from a few years ago done with Colin Firth, Reese Witherspoon and Rupert Everett I think. Perhaps you can find it to watch during that LONG 4 month hiatus for the show!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think it is interesting that Rumple says whatever Pan promised–he WILL go back on it. Sounds like he knows Pan is a liar and can never be trusted. Father or brother?!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree in the show there was no sign of huntsman/red, but it is apparently built up in the graphic novel. He likes wolves, she turns into one, they both have been outsiders, both have a connection with Snow. It is a story so almost anything can be developed.
I agree about missing friendships. I didn’t like Ruby, but when they showed Red I understood the character and completely changed my mind that she was just a trashy tart for eye-candy purposes with no plot reason. Hey! That’s the connection between Graham and Ruby…they were both a little skin-showing seemingly just eye-candy, but had deeper plot based internal conflict masking a good and caring personality ….but I digress.
I miss Emma/Snow as friends without the tension of the parental angst. I wonder if Emma and Snow feel that too, perhaps conflicted because Emma did want a mother and Snow did want to be a mother? I am conflicted too because I liked the S2 dynamic. It was only in S3 that the mother/daughter thing between them (like everything else in NL) became darker and depressing.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think Regina suddenly gets a coat too, maybe a different part of the island is colder? Even if they temperature control the studio, it might be built like a large warehouse so if there is a sudden change, the temperature inside can get cold until the heat can catch up. That happens in my house so I can only imagine a large studio.
It might be also symbolic that she is less vulnerable, or darker.
PoM the people who suggest that Neal is “acting like Rumple” about the shadow are off-base as RG pointed out, and oddly they miss the good ways Rumple acts where one can draw comparisons too Look at how Neal is understanding Emma’s feelings. If he is acting like Rumple it is the side that loves and appreciates the woman he loves awesomeness, that realizes the strength and confidence she brings him through her love even if they are apart, even when he doubted he would ever be good enough for her and may still doubt it.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
