[kfchimera]

Don’t Stop: You are awesome.

We need Puck the Bison as the Big Billy Goat Gruff, kicking the trolls off the bridge.

Marty: I don’t have hope, and the reason has nothing to do with the story of CS or SF–but everything to do with the way the writers seem to be catering to fans left and right in the corners of the story. Mulan having feelings for Aurora, done just vaguely enough that maybe she was talking about Phillip, for example. Never mind that AURORA AND PHIL ARE TRUE LOVE! There are a good number of fans who are hoping Phil died as a monkey, so Aurora can be with Mulan. I’m all for groundbreaking stories, but why trample a true love couple to get there? Why make the genre “soap” rather than “fairy tale”?

The writers have said a few things that make me think this is not Emma and Henry’s fairytale, but Rumple, Regina and Hook’s, and Emma and Henry are simply the tools to give them their happy endings, rather than characters who are consistently written. So we have Henry who accepts Regina, rejects calling her a villain, even though that means he does forgive her killing people so long as they weren’t people he loved and knew. He would never have forgiven her if she’d helped to kill the Charmings or Emma. Perhaps even Archie’s death would have been too much, but once he found out it wasn’t Archie that died? No problems! So who cares about people in general, the right thing in general, for this show dismisses all that even in the character’s mind set who is supposed to most represent the heroic way of thought.

How can I admire this? It’s like the curtain has slowly slipped, and I’m staring at the conman and his show, and feeling quite disenchanted that this fairy tale isn’t a fairy tale at all. Whatever it is, soap with magical plot fix its, its not going to change.

I do think the writers always intended to have Hook be a romantic factor for Emma, in the same way they intended August to be that. They had Eion read Bonnie and Clyde with J.Mo—hardly the script to choose if you weren’t interested in having some chemistry and were from the start pursuing a brother/sister vibe. Eion reveals this in a video interview somewhere, so its out there on the internet. Yet Adam and Eddy claim after the fact it was always a brother/sister thing they wanted.
Beyond that though, I’m not sure what their intentions actually were. Did they intend for Emma to reciprocate? You can listen to the Tallahassee podcast and some others from around that time, if they don’t delete them, and they call Anton a kindred spirit, perhaps even more than Hook to Emma. Say what?! Remember, Hook didn’t trust Emma about Anton. How can a kindred spirit not be a kindred spirit with a kindred spirit!?

Anyway, out of time, and I know a lot of what I’m saying I’ve said before.

[kfchimera]

Rumple had a poster about changing fate too,  certainly a theme when playing in time travel, no?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

Slurpeez and Phee: I would love that, but it wouldn’t make up for 318 and Eva/Cora/Leo –nothing can, short of confessions from Ghost Cora that she lied when she gave Snow visions.

I think I have some of my best Polka-Dot-Circus Crazy Crack theory now for you tonight. Have you heard about Orphan Black? Given Hollywood’s tendency to follow a trend, I think Season 4 will involve the discovery of Hook clones. There wont’ be a point to it, other than pleasing shipper groups as once you put a ship together, it does get a little boring. So once Captain Swan is married, we’ll find out that Eric will die, so Hookriel of a sort can happen (she’ll get Hook #3, who loves the seas) and TinkerHook (She’ll get a more Officer Jones type, who wants to help people like fairies do) and so on, like Ory can come back and we can have a were-wolf Hook clone for Ruby, and of course, who needs Robin, we’ll have Robin Hook, a noble thief who falls for Regina. I mean, RC played how many versions of Rumple, pretty sure Colin can handle all the Hook clones.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

It’s all about the second chances, of course.

Second Chance to reuse that poster, this time without being forced to include Neal!
Second Chance to have him DIEEEEEE!
Second Chance to have him be separated from his family.
Second Chance to forget all about the Darlings.
Second Chance to forget all about how brave Neal was, all along, and pretend the “circle of cowardice” was unbroken until that moment despite: Neal leaping a shadow to head back to NL, to face “hands down” the nastiest person, Pan, after getting shot by his ex-fiance for standing up to her over her crazed mission to eliminate magic. He had reason to hate magic, but he tried to do the right thing. Lets not forget his bravery in facing his father, a man who hurt him deeply when he broke his trust years before. Or the time he stood up against Cora and Regina, or even just Regina, rather than running away and hiding (like someone else we could mention who apparently, couldn’t turn on Cora or challenge her, something even Aurora did). Oh, let’s not forget emotional bravery, the ability to take responsibility for your actions, apologize, and accept it might take time for someone to trust you again rather than demanding instant closeness. Long before all that though, we had Bae’s risking a new world if it meant saving his father, willingness to go to war, and going with the shadow to save the Darlings. So yes, Second Chance to forget all of that happened.

Second Chance to have Neal silently accept Hook’s categorization of things, in a way that makes both he and Hook appear slightly misogynistic. I’d buy Neal was grateful for Hook’s help in NL, even if he said “I knew I could trust you, after you helped my son. I was wrong, you could change.” Why not give Neal that line, instead of the ridiculous how does it feel to be a hero/villain stuff, and clap-trap about “a woman”.

Second Chance to invent some horrible plot device magic that involves bad CGI (guess that’s not a second chance, as they keep doing that).

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

This sums up how I feel:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOytKU9cBNA

“Good People”

You win
It’s your show, now
So what’s it gonna be
‘Cause people
Will tune in
How many train wrecks do we need to see?
Before we lose touch of
We thought this was low
It’s bad getting worse so

[Chorus:]
Where’d all the good people go?
I’ve been changing channels
I don’t see them on the TV shows
Where’d all the good people go?
We got heaps and heaps of what we sow

They got this and that and
With a rattle a tat
Testing one two,
Now what you gonna do?
Bad news, misused,
Got too much to lose
Gimme some truth
Now whose side are we on?
Whatever you say
Turn on the boob tube
I’m in the mood to obey
So lead me astray by the way, now

Where’d all the good people go?
I’ve been changing channels
I don’t see them on the TV shows
Where’d all the good people go?
We got heaps and heaps of what we sow

Sitting round feeling far away
So far away but I can feel the debris
Can you feel it?
You interrupt me from a friendly conversation
To tell me how great its all gonna be
You might notice some hesitation
‘Cause it’s important to you, it’s not important to me
Way down by the edge of your reasons
It’s beginning to show
And all I really wanna know is…

Where’d all the good people go?
I’ve been changing channels
I don’t see them on the TV shows
Where’d all the good people go?
We got heaps and heaps of what we sow

They got this and that
With a rattle a tat
Testing one, two
Now what you gonna do?
Bad news, misused, give me some truth
You got too much to lose
Whose side are we on today, anyway?
OK, whatever you say.
Wrong and resolute but in the mood to obey
Station to station desensitizing the nation
Going, going, gone.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

If I were Jared Gilmore, I’d be looking for a new job. Kids don’t always fare too well on Soaps…there’s an infamous story of some that went up to the attic and never came down until they were played by older, hunkier/prettier actors/actresses.

“Was it your plan to kill Henry!?”
“ALWAYS. We knew we needed to show Hook with his own child, and Regina with her own child, otherwise, it comes off like they didn’t win, somehow their victory is tainted by having to care for the offspring of those horrible “heroes” that wronged them so much. There’d always be a shadow on their happiness if we kept Henry around, and what is important is that Hook, Regina and Rumple are happy, free of the past. ”

Sounds about where the show is headed. After all, they’re talking about how important Henry is in this interview which probably means he’s not going to be important at all. That’s sort of the logic they’ve used in writing the show and answering questions right?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

These writers make me cringe. If they’d said about Hook and Emma that “When you love someone, you just want to have them feel the same way, and to feel the object of your affections is pushing you away because of a misunderstanding of who you are, that’s even harder. It can be frustrating to realize its not easy to win back someone’s trust, especially someone like Emma who experienced so much loss that she finds it hard to trust anyone, let alone give someone a second chance. Problem is, that would describe SF quite well, wouldn’t it? Can’t have the audience feel for Neal, so we have to make this about how Hook deserves to win, how frustrating it is for him to be trying so hard when Emma’s had nothing but awful relationships and he’s giving her everything that any other girl would want. Yep, a while back we had a whole “hook-on” thing here, comparing Hook to Gaston, the fangirling, the disdain and boasting–but there is more to Hook than just pride. That’s why I was hoping they’d show him understanding and realizing the value of friendship with Emma is more important than winning her heart. That’s what Emma needs right now, is a friend, not a boyfriend, not yet. Let HER decide when she’s ready for that. Let her pursue it, or at least, actively encourage as opposed to discourage the person. I’ll say this for Regina/Robin–Regina isn’t portrayed as an indecisive girl in the relationship. She’s true to her character in being a bit flirty and staying in control. Guess they used up all the good writing on that, not that there aren’t potential problems (if he really thinks she was just “audacious” and doesn’t really know the real depths she’d plunged into–if he knows, and is like second chances, yeah yeah, then fine. ) The writers just like to portray the good characters as naive, I think.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

I agree, can’t leave the Tent of Doom yet.

For all the doom and gloom though, I really adore reading the Tent of Hope stuff and right now, I feel this kind of conflict, because in a show about fairy tales, shouldn’t everyone be allowed to hope? Outside this thread though, we get told again and again, NO. We get told that Emma WANTS to move on, wished Neal dead. Yet I have to ask why the ABC promo department, in the midst of a very Hook-leaning set of romantic moments accidentally described (for it must have been an accident) that Emma was “terrified” of losing Neal. What? I thought the official word was she just plain wanted him dead because she didn’t want him around. I mean, that’s what everyone else said, and it was only here in the shipping thread (and on Hulu) that anyone said, it was fear of loss, not loss of love that made her say that to him.

It makes me think of the Adjustment Bureau, except that in that story, the hero is able to shift fate back to the original plan. You root for him to overcome the new plan, you sense the adjusters are pushing the wrong plan, because these two people LOVE each other –but see, we’re seeing a different point of view. This story seems to be more about Hook’s point of view now than Neal or Emma’s, or anyone else (aside from Regina.). Doesn’t matter whether Emma and Henry love Hook, and certainly they care and are grateful for his help, but what matters is that HE decided they are his happy ending. Well, that Emma is, the boy just happens to be a not-very-negotiable part of it.

If it is BTF, not “what happened, happened” self-adjusting time loop like LOST, there’s hope. Yet I think it is the latter, that the writers will suggest Emma and Hook always having been in the past. I guess we’ll know soon enough, maybe some small discrepancy between stills or sneaks would give away whether the trip to the past could change the future or not. Yet for Rumple, it makes sense he’d try to find an exploit, a loophole, because honestly, when DID Bae ask him to be avenged? THAT wasn’t their deal. It isn’t likely to be something Neal would ask even. No, the deal was for Rumple to get over his curse and be his papa again. So killing someone, kind of against the real deal he had with his son. The avenging thing is what he took out of Neal asking that the Witch not hurt his family. Yet when Rumple killed her, she couldn’t, as she had no power. SHENNIGANS! I feel it, and either this is terrible, terrible writing, which is kind of what I think after the retcon 318 and Snow declaring Eva as having “such darkness” for having told the truth about Cora’s lying schemes. If they wanted us to sympathize with Cora, why not show Leo as really in love with her and her with him? Why not have Eva digging up dirt, that Leo actually knew already, that he GAVE Cora the gems, but because of Eva snooping and spying, and exposing and betraying a confidence (that Leo for example, told her Cora had business to attend to in the garden but it is secret)–but instead it isn’t told that well. What we saw and what Snow concluded don’t add up. Especially when you add in Cora giving herself her best chance, not her child. I’d sooner believe Ghost Cora carried out her life mission and ruined Eva’s legacy by LYING to Snow, just like she lied to “her love” Leopold’s face that there was no child. Yet, I forget, the evil doers in this show are just misunderstood and its all everyone else’s fault for not rolling over and giving them what they want. A theme I see with CS too, because poor Hook, he tries so hard to win Emma, why can’t she just make him happy!? Lying, deceit etc, that stuff doesn’t matter. Nothing done for love is bad, nothing done without is good, remember.
Shakes off the doom, and goes back to Polka Dot Circus Crack:

Little John and Z… = JZ
http://media.masslive.com/television_impact/photo/lost—sawyer-charlottejpg-ab15539e9d42798b_large.jpg

I love it. Remember, the polka dot crack is in the Tent of Doom stuff, so I forgot to add that of course, Red will be back as part of a love triangle where we find out she truly loved LJ during some very ret-con seeming stuff we never heard about, to create a love triangle. Of course, when Red proves not to be as popular as Z, because she’s not a villain on the reform and is not Regina’s sister, but Snow’s sort of “adopted” sister, they’ll consider killing off Red, but, in their back pocket is Frankenwolf! Victor will bring Red back from the dead as the bride of frankenstein, and we SF fans will shake our head at 2 people restored from the dead, but not Neal. It would be SO SAD, wouldn’t it, if THAT got reversed! Not like Emma, Henry, Rumple, and heck, even Hook cared about the guy, certainly not the audience except for us here in our safe spot (and Shatner…). In fact, the Season 4 will be about exploring all the way the show can bring people back from the dead, just to prove the point some more.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

I say we all start Zelena /Little john ship, as clearly she called him beautiful one, and how perfect to have Z marry Her sisters boyfriends best man, can call it monkey love part two.  They just need to bring her back from dead, and recast the role like they did Robin.  If we can get enough fan girl and boys on this idea, could work.  Since Intelligence might be cancelled, I think they can get josh holloway as recast little john.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_c7SbkGaLk

I need to get that out of my system, now I can watch baby bison, or rather my baby son.   *hugs*

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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