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“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I would love that!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I am glad they’re releasing the Belle one–but I’m just not that thrilled with how the whole thing was handled. Seriously, Belle’s wasn’t ready until now? They didn’t change a thing on it. I bet if those were made by fans, their lazy marketing staff just went with it since Emilie was using it on her twitter.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Everyone, it’s time like this that it is nice to have the “ship” group but always I feel its a two-edged sword, like Adam and his “hope”. Seriously, the only thing he should say is “We have a story in mind, and we HOPE you like it.” Even if it is true that they might shift bits of that story around for one reason or another, including fan demands, he should stop encouraging the idea that anything could happen. The August situation for example, seriously, just say no, not what we have in mind. It’s really NOT a spoiler after a certain point.
It shouldn’t for example, be a spoiler to get on a podcast like they used to do and explain what Emma meant in her speech. Is it “I’m sorry, I’ll always care about you but I’m not in love with you and I want to move on?” or is it ” I will always love you, but right now I just need some time before I can handle what that means, please give me space.” Sort of parallel to Snow a few minutes later angrily saying to David “NOT NOW,” when he wanted to talk about what he’d said. I don’t think that means Snow is ready to page Dr. Whale if you know what I mean. It means she needs time to settle down her emotions so when they DO talk, they can resolve things rather than make it worse.
I think it is still important that so far everything that happens with Hook is somewhat shadowed by her relationship with Neal. The way they set this up, SF exists regardless of what could or will happen with CS, but for CS to really sail, Emma has to resolve her issues with Neal. I didn’t feel her cave speech did that, it was more about telling him that she HAD issues with him.In some ways, we shippers do it to ourselves, in terms of not just sitting back and letting unfold then reacting. We make predictions, we react based on that and set expectations in our minds. So I understand the writers feeling a bit like, not their problem. At the same time, they clearly know that’s going on, so its a bit careless not to just say anytime some one tries to say they “ship” something, or ask for hope or whatever, just say “We are creating a story, and we hope you enjoy. That’s all the hope we have to give anyone.”
I’ve said it before, I want SF because that was how I interpreted what was going on in the show, that Neal was Emma’s anchor to hope but I guess anchors can go both ways. They can weigh you down in a bad or good way, depending on the context, keep you from being lost at sea, but could also cause you to sink.
So it goes back to context and how much we need more of the story to understand the story.So about that spoiler Yes, it does feel bad to have a scene we were looking forward to seeing, one of Neal and Emma in the bug, become instead about CS (potentially) but as Phee pointed out we have no idea what they’re talking about. By the same token it also once again shows how Neal is sort of “there” even when he isn’t there. That was his gift to Emma, not exactly the ideal place to stage a romantic ‘date’ for Emma on the part of the writers, and unlike CS fanfic writers, I don’t think they’d do something “spitefully” in that sense of deliberately giving a new purpose to the bug. Sort of like when Neal and Emma stole the JR, to get Rumple home, well, I guess fine, Hook can take a ride in the bug, but we’ll see what it means. I still feel like every “symbol” for CS can be dual purposed with SF as I said in an earlier post, but it always feels like SF sort of got there “first” in Emma’s mind. Contrast that with the JR scene, because Emma did not have any memories of being with Hook on the ship when she was on it with Neal. So in fact, sailing to NL, she had memories of having been on that ship with Neal first, before she formed any of being on that ship with Hook (in a state of grief over Neal, and worry for her son).
Apart from all that, I see huge “parallels” to Hook and Mulan now in terms of the framing of this season’s story, that were not there in S2. Not a ship them together (gods no!) parallel thing, but rather their focus on honor. They now have parallel lives, falling in love with one loved by one they care deeply about as well, whatever term for that platonic connection fits, aside from the romantic one. What I want for MAP is to all be friends, and Mulan to find a new love (not Hook!) who sees her the way Aurora and Phillip see each other. The same for Hook–let him find someone who doesn’t have a huge corner of her heart tied up with someone else (not Mulan!), especially someone else he cared (s ) about too. I got on board with Hookriel thinking it would play out with unrequited love on Ariel’s side but doesn’t have to be that character. She just seemed like one that could be “main cast” given the actress’s history and connections, plus the popularity of the character in the fandom in general. I’m not against other Hook ships, but so far they don’t capture my imagination just like CS no longer has it.
I might have been more likely to root for Neal to get the short end here, if S2 interactions of Hook and Emma made me start rooting for them as a couple. I had hopes at Tallahassee, but they were not really played out for me until too much happened. I know people rationalize one way or the other but for me, it is something I’ll need to see on screen and not swept-under-the-rug the way it has been. At least Neal’s past actions aren’t being hand-waived away –back to the anchor, is it a good or bad thing? I don’t know yet.
I think it is good. I feel like the writers care to address these things because it is important to establishing a romance going forward–not to establishing why it wouldn’t work. They don’t have to bother doing that, do they? It’s just, you know, hot pirate, chemistry all that, and one sad look and we’re all done with Emma and Neal. We all saw that he left, we all saw he was with Tamara, and we saw he was sorry. They didn’t need to have him hear that speech from Emma to realize he can’t just show up and they get back together–he’d already expressed doubts about it.
So why all the screen time on it, if they don’t intend to do anything? I feel about it that way I guess. Hook’s little crush is just the sideshow, to set up his internal conflict, perhaps temptation for Emma and angst with Neal. I don’t feel they’ve been showing me why Emma and Hook have a connection, if anything it feels like I’ve been shown why they don’t. They’re not on the same wavelength a lot.
Anyway, none of it matters at present to Emma since she’s in survival mode with everything changed. She’s besties with Regina, pulling hearts and sparking fires, pulling knives on boys. She’s not S2 or S1 Emma, but I feel like she is being written as aware that she’s off-center.
I still believe Neal and Emma could be a good story. I’m not convinced that Hook/Emma has to be awful, either but the show hasn’t quite gotten me to believe that Emma’s heart is with Hook even if his is suddenly with her. I’m not even sure that was what he meant or if it was, that he has had the time to really not just be rebounding. It was 300 years, sure, but 300 spent keeping her memory alive and in his heart, that pain fresh. Next week is going to be a turning point for me potentially. I need to see how the writers handle the interaction between Hook and Neal. If all the potentially interesting things are forgotten in favor of they’re just two guys who want the same girl, then I don’t know. I might keep watching but I think might interest might fade regardless of which way it plays out. I was hoping they were going to surprise us with something other than a soap opera subplot but who knows.“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Ranisha, thanks for sharing your thoughts, and welcome!
I agree with you that Swanfire is unique, but it does have this quality to it that takes it out of just whimsy, wish fulfillment and fancy of the common romance novel, and into something with some bite to it like those classic literary tales, but still there’s the magic that gives it the fairy tale feel to it.
I can’t help but root for these two to connect and step by step rediscover what drew them together in the first place. I never really wanted the writers to rush it or sweep anything under the rug. A lot of us who ship it do so with the idea that this is what Emma wants, because she always knew what they had was special, the moment they met each other. I think the span of time in between is enough to get the idea that Emma had the opportunity to meet other people but none came close, except maybe Graham. I’m not sure about Hook either, but we’ll see as it plays out. The writers didn’t make there be a connection between Neal and Hook for nothing, nor has it been completely forgotten even if heavily downplayed so far in terms of “triangle” scenes.
Speaking of something downplayed and forgotten… There’s a set picture of Pan but in the background you can see the yellow bug!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
That was a lovely set of thoughts about Swanfire, Twice Upon a Time–and as usual Slurpeez, I read every word and almost strained my neck nodding.
I agree also with RG and Astrawoid from earlier about those subjective lenses and people using these emotionally loaded statements to promote their ship by dismissing another.
I just hope the writers are done with this triangle thing sooner rather than later. I feel like they aren’t really getting good mileage out of it, as inevitably some fans will storm off, like Screwball talked about. Triangles can just ruin the characters of everyone involved, make them unlikeable. All triangles come with a price!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Ariel was perfect! Ok aside from the “Just between girlfriends” moment with Ursula because I totally had a flashback to Cheyenne on Reba because it sounded too modern rather than mythical mermaid but it is a TINY quibble. That Dinglehoppering of Regina in the neck was more than enough to make up for it!
I am a bit sad about Hookriel, but Eric is a sweetie, and who knows as they booked him recurring. I want them to have a good story for Ariel, and the good thing about a short arc is it can end happy as Cinderella or Aurora’s story (mostly…poor Mulan) did. So I think we’ll get to see Ariel’s happy ending sooner or later this way compared to how long it would drag out with Hookriel. I just wanted more Ariel.
I’ll take what we can get really. I am looking forward to her friendship with Belle too, somehow she just has such natural chemistry as a friend with GG, so it was so sweet to see that. I’d missed those sort of scenes she had with Ruby –just two friends kicking it.
We get caught up in the shipping stuff, and then lately there’s been a round of bromance–but good solid sisterhood is wonderful to see.
Especially if it gets a Dinglehopper shanking! I cracked up with how Regina just sort of wandered around hurt, like a boss in a video game might to buy you time to finish it off. It was like “yeah so that’s why they put the lame line about concentrating in for magic….to explain why she couldn’t just make herself some sushi with her magic…Ariel broke her concentration.”
As for her “land”–I wonder if it is between worlds not so much IN Nl, and mermaids are immortal, or it is in NL and mermaids age normally if out of NL?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think if she died in childbirth before curse that ends that, but it was just a thought that popped into my mind. I never did see that movie, Return to me, so no idea if it was a GOOD story!
I like the idea that Whale used the wrong heart type. I just want whale to not be a plot hanging loose thread.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
The whole looks thing is silly as it is subjective. Cannon fact, Emma finds Neal attractive. Beyond that, you know, MRJ reminds me of another “unlikely” heartthrob by the standards of the classic Disney Prince type.
Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark/Iron Man has plenty of appeal as a romantic hero, despite the gruffy, scruffy I may be a jerk persona and fact that he’s not built like a warehouse like Thor/Hemsfield. It’s not just THAT character, the actor has been Sherlock Holmes with plenty of fangirling, all the way back to his turn on Alley McBeal and probably even before that. So even at a pure looks level…there you go, MRJ’s not even an unusual “type” of romantic male lead.
I feel like a lot of this really is sort of shipper/fan propaganda. I know there’s people from every side (its not just Neal vs Hook…there’s very vocal anti-both from SQers actually), and you’ll see thinly reasoned rants about Hook too, where people wish him gone, then it triggers all the people playing chicken little about how he’s the only person that they watch the show to see. It always makes me raise an eyebrow if ratings go up for an episode that way–these fair weather fans are probably some of those who don’t seem to understand the story because they aren’t watching all of it apparently, only if it has their favorite.
I don’t think Neal fans tend to do that–they tend to be a subset of fans of the show in general because the show has never promoted Neal as a character “A legend, Captain Hook!”, or his face as “look hot guy”.
They do dress him more as an ordinary guy too, and while I would love to see him in that 3pc suit again, or even that nice scarf and wool coat, if they keep going with the more rugged look, it suits the character. He grew up pretty poor, not in fine clothes, though his leather jackets wouldn’t be amiss either 😛
I think Neal and Emma would make each other happy. They’d support each other when they don’t, and listen when they get angry. There’s a level of communication that makes me feel they just complete each other.
Edit: I agree on the predictions we need to see that onscreen!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Unless what dies is the shadow but Pan is ok.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
