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Reading the Hollywood article, where Kitsis says he would be depressed (not the usual disappointed) about Hook not winning Emma over kind of says it all. They convinced themselves that lying, cheating and all that is just ” misunderstood” , that is why Eva was Dark for telling on lying Cora. The truth is to be hidden if it gets you what you want, if it is love it makes any action, even those that hurt others, all fine.
I will read spoilers after the finale is out and decide, but watch it live? I do not think it is worth my time.
I need the clip of buttercup’s dream, sums up how I feel.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
My head says start building the walls of the tent of doom into permanent structures.
My heart wants to follow Shatner.
My heart remembers the Swanfie Starwars fan art, with Neal as Han. Prince Charles IS a bit of a cad, but more to the point, Leia is famous for kissing her brother. He was famous for having a crush on her and not knowing she was his sister and that was why they felt so connected. He had magic and she did not. Of course it would be terrible for Snowing to lose another kid, so unless we have an open time travel loop and not a fatalistic LOST style one, it is hard to say that belongs in the tent of Hope. I watched 320 and it was not great for SF at all, but the only thing that made it tolerable was imagining it to be a Star Wars twist that he is her brother. It is not wrong for her to care about Hook,to value that he has in his way tried to help her. Yet why does it need to be romantic? She had true love, and she is not fighting for it. people bring up Princess Bride but you know, I remember that scene with the dream where an old lady condemns Princess Buttercup, that she is filth and garbage because she had true love and threw it away, but she says he died. THEN of course we find out mostly dead is still slightly alive. If not for out of show spoilers saying DO NOT HOPE, do not pass go, everyone hated Neal, and wanted him to die except for yos people in this one tiny corner of the internet, I would hope. Even then I say cynically, if ratings flail, the writers can change things. Short of a true LOST approach where the past cannot change as it already happened. Yet even then, maybe Z lied that it was truly a life for a life done deal. Maybe this whole time Neal is preserved like being in Carbonite. Or if the writers hear enough feedback, they would make it so because I think they care far more about ratings than story. yet that just shifts tent of doom to another thread. where is the fairy tale? Star Wars was deemed a space opera, not a fairy tale.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Sorry about the nightmare crack theory, but honestly, I think if there were a CS tent of hope, that theory would fit very well in there too for them.
Here is a SF flavored Polka Dot Circus crack theory for Tent of Hope to make up for it: (It may still scar you)
Baby charming starts to vanish, and Snow notes they haven’t even named him yet. They realize it is all due to the time travel spell taking its course, and they panic. Hook and Emma rush to the barn, where they get swallowed up. Meanwhile in the Diner, Henry notices his book is glowing. They open it and start reading as a new story starts to appear of how Hook and Emma wander around FTL in the past, causing events to happen. Then they start flashing to other time periods because they are displaced through time. In the present, Regina calls this the worst fear for every storybook character–the PLOT HOLE curse! It’s swallowing up the whole story! Lots of other things happen like in the Doom theory, in terms of helping Bae out of NL, forcing August to get Emma to leave Neal etc. but through it all Hook keeps seeing how much Emma loves Neal. By the end of Season 4, the remaining heroes in the present have located where Baby Charming went–to the far past, and he is found by a boy named Liam who asks if he can keep the baby as a brother. Hook is Emma’s brother! He is also a product of True Love, and they’ve been connected to each other all along without even knowing WHY. Regina, dressed in super Blue Fairy Blue of course, announces this is the solution to the Plot Hole Curse, that only a paradox of True Love like this could end it. Some more plot plot plot stuff happens, that results in Emma returning to present day in a slightly altered future, where Baby Charming never goes back in time, resulting in the True Love paradox, but this particular Deus Ex Machina isn’t explained much beyond acknowledging it exists. Snow looks at the baby, and they happily all say his name is Killian. “Should have known, he has his father’s eyes and his mother’s hair….” Snow will muse. Just as someone sort of wonders isn’t that odd, that Hook was Emma’s brother all along! Henry even gets a line where he PARALLELS Hook and Emma to Luke and Leia, so its all sanitized for GA Then Regina says, Hook never having been in the past must have altered their reality in a stronger way, but how? Then in walks Neal, and he and Emma run into each other’s arms and TA DAH…Happy Ending! I hope I added equal amounts of weird as for the doom version.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Oh I love this game….predictions for the worst of the worst…
Anyway here goes, my best Polka-Dot Tent of Doom Circus Crack
Emma and Hook not only are the reason August tells Neal he has to leave Emma (because it already happened, have to preserve the time line!), Hook and Emma are Henry’s parents! I know, it totally seems like a big retcon, but wait, see, the writers will imply it always happened that way because 30 year old Emma and Hook do more than just TLK in the past, but it poofs them to the future, but not before the magic transplants the baby they make from 30 year old Emma to a very confused 17 year old Emma. See, Neal only thinks he and Emma ahem, did the necessary steps, but actually he passed out. Emma’s never had another lover besides Hook this way! So Emma knew Neal couldn’t be the father, but she was just so shocked in Manhattan she didn’t know what else to say as at that point as she didn’t have an explanation. So anyway, her 17 year old self gave birth to Henry and they swapped him in. Don’t think too hard because its magic (and someone will actually say that line, just to make sure the audience feels like its “ok” that it doesn’t quite line up). What’s more, Hook and Emma do more time travel and are the reason Neal escaped NL, so that’s why he sort of wondered about Emma being ok leaving Hook behind. He KNEW They were True Loves, all along, when he ran into grown up Emma in Manhattan, it just didn’t click for him until later. So he met her first when he was 14 and she 30 having travelled back in time. So years later in the bug that was her first, and his second meeting with her, so he just didn’t realize it was the same person (because he’s stupid)! Plus the necklace /keychain thing, wasn’t stolen from the store–no that was just a fake-out. Actually it is something 30 something year old Emma gave 14 Bae, to GIVE to Emma because it already happened (but it survives because of Hook’s true love for Emma, of course, can’t forget that bit). Is this convoluted and nonsensical enough to “make sense” enough for this show yet? Wait you say, what about “blood magic” for Henry being related to Pan and Rumple? Well easy peasey, see the truth is, Malcom was also Hook’s Dad too, and its parallel to how Regina never knew about Zelena. Rumple never knew about his older brothers Liam and Killian! Hook of course never aged due to Pan’s magic all along, and it explains why Pan was so interested in Hook, as he KNEW he was the real father of the truest believer, and that Bae was just a decoy. Ultimately once Emma and Hook return back to the future with the power of their true love’s ahem, deed, Bae just poofs out of existence for real, as the placeholder he always was in this story. Rumple then never lied to Belle about anything, and everyone is just one happy family about to be attacked by some new big bad out of nowhere, maybe Jafar so they can bring Will Scarlet in.
There, now it has to be better than THAT right?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think that too Textbook, that time is circular in this story, that the future caused certain events in the past. Makes sense, they write it that way after all, as the writers create new stories in the past in order to parallel the events in the present day.
Of course to say time is linear is a misleading thing but it is true in the sense of their narrative not changing past events (well other than retcon shifts in meaning) but in a the past changes so the future changes way. lOST did that sort of timetravel, so I expect it here. It would let them “fix” things to a degree, explain the unexplained by even more unexplained things.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Baby names call for celebration, so worth stopping by the forums for a post!
My real guess is Graham, because as a fan favorite character its something I could see these writers doing, but also it makes sense for Snow in character as well. He did save her life, and he was killed so tragically and they never truly had time to really mourn him on screen. Lancelot could work too, if they’re going into Camelot next season.
Now for the fun, snarky and just for when you need to laugh guesses:
1) Walt.
It works for Walt Disney, so that GG would feel it touching, but it is also a reference to LOST.
Lost Spoilers: ( So…Walt could be a sign that poor baby Charming will be given a total offfscreen dumping after all this build up about how special he is. )
2) Leroy. Why shouldn’t she name the kid after Grumpy, her favorite Dwarf, surrogate daddy/big brother? Well Grumpy would be worse than Leopold but Leroy and Leo are close sounding.
3) Dumbo. The way the Charmings are written this season, could be an easter egg to hint that their son will have elephant sized ears and can fly. It’s a Disney classic they haven’t touched and from flying monkeys to flying elephants, its not a huge leap.
5)Will. This is how they will add Will Scarlet to the cast. That part is the spoiler, but my crazy speculation is he’ll be baby Snowflake all grown up due to a time portal mishap, he grows up in the past never knowing he’s this close to crossing paths with his parents and sister
6) McFly so they can make the “back to the future” plot more obvious. (Marty works too but McFly cracks me up more).
7) Batman. What? They already have a Robin so why not. Ok, fine, they can call him Bruce.
I still go back to Walt though so his initials could be W.I.N. (Walt I. Nolan?)
Well I wanted to come up with 10 but its too much, laughing too hard now and have other things to do!
*hugs forum*.“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I know the writers love their twists and I feel there is something tongue in cheek about this season, like the whole mess of the Charmings teaching Henry to drive. It felt so meta to have the Charmings complain about being perceived as boring. I think the writers might do some wild thing like break up Snow and Charming, make their echo cave stuff ironic too because why not? What is left in this story of the ideal, classic fairy tale, it is a soap now with magic for plot devices and an obvious eye on fan reaction. I guess for me there is no hope because they cannot undo my awareness of plot devices, the crashing of my suspension of disbelief. If enough fans wanted Neal back, which I suppose is unlikely as most GA probably are not too picky, they would find a way, and I could move the doom tent to another part of the forum.
Shatner and more campiness would take it into a show not about hope and wonder but spectacle and “what just happened, what the actual puck, lose your ability to can, to even and ” what ever other slang expression is appropriate on Tumblr. That seems to be the goal now, we’ll for awhile now with poppa pan, but if it is all a plan to twist and twist again, I think they will lose the rest of their audience. That said, one thought did hit me, but it is typical in shows like this where a first season antagonist becomes a protagonist that they get sidelined to bring a new antagonist in, but if we flip it around here, maybe the original protagonist could be the one to leave. Regina becomes the female lead, the heroine more solidly, and J.mo gets to move back to .lA, where she seems to be flying down more frequently this season. I don’t know but if there were a bts thing like that would be well kept under wraps.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think it will be Graham, because Neal needs to be erased from the story other than describing him in rare moments as Henry ‘s father just to tie up loose ends. graham was a fan favorite so you know they must mourn him, though this season maybe it will be Cora because Snow owes Regina so much, according to the way it is written. on the other hand I think”Plot Device” would be touching because it’s the MVP of the story.
Though seriously Ruth would make more sense if a girl but doubt the writers even remember that.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Yes to that reviewer’s take on things, particularly the line about things getting cheesy.
I always liked Shatner. Since they plan to leave Neal dead, I will forgive the show if they cast Shatner as Merlin and he can chew scenery and pontificate as only he can in that way he speaks full of laden… dramatic ….pauses. I loved Kirk, even have seen bits of clips of Shatner’s performances as that cop or the lawyer on those other shows. I know him best as Kirk though so I am not saying this with disrespect, but he does kind of have this style about him. If the show wants to give up all pretense of drama /kitchen table and heartfelt for PURE CAMP as they have, the only way to make it better is to just OWN it, cast Shatner, and suddenly all the obvious soap opera nonsense full of visible plot holes and silly things that happen just because, will all seem in keeping with the genre they’re trying to write. It’s soap-opera, Dark Shadows silliness, and its entertaining in its way but you’re not supposed to take anything seriously.
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/movies/index.ssf/2012/05/dark_shadows_review_johnny_depp.htmlI saw some of the original Dark Shadows, and its unintentionally funny so I can see why Burton made a spoof version but sometimes the winking, knowing mocking undercuts the ability of an audience to really root and connect with characters. The half-hearted Charmings is something else, if the writers aren’t AWARE of what they’re writing, maybe Shatner can help open their eyes, but he still seems to have faith that all this will make sense in the end.
Maybe what we’re seeing is ALREADY the result of someone tampering with time, its already an alternate universe, and Emma will realize it, and then we’ll have the real fight to set things right. That would be really cool, but I still think its just bad writing (the plot holes, the inconsistent characterization, the “just because Magic!” complications and resolutions).
I could have liked CS, I really could, but I knew the minute the writers went into triangle territory, that it could ruin the show for me personally. I wanted a fairy tale, not a soap opera. Why couldn’t they have made Neal into men, and that’s the reason Henry’s Father isn’t going to be Emma’s romantic partner? Why have to say he was still in love with her, and kill her off? (Guess I should move this to Crystal Princess thread, but if someone wants to quote me, I’m running out of time and have an annoyed toddler looking at his mama, “what are you doing!” except he can’t talk yet. )The historical Neal Cassidey was bi-sexual I think, wasted opportunity to really do some BOLD storytelling, but instead we get cheap triangle resolution, and get out of redemption death for RC, one of their main actors at the cost of an actor they didn’t spend much screen time on as they could have. Yes, losing Bae is huge for Rumple, so its not like he didn’t suffer but its not just HIS price here, with the way they wrote it.
I hope that made sense, didn’t quite take the time to edit for coherence (but apparently, OUAT’s writers dont either and they get paid to write!).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
The long list of plotholes is why I’m settling in the Tent of Doom and am finding it quite cozy.
I kind of wonder if some of the writers aren’t secretly in there with us? They made Snow and Charming half-hearted this season! What a metaphor for how so many of us feel about the show now, and if some of the writers feel that way, it might explain the escalation of lame plot devices, slightly repetitive dialog at times. Some repetition I understand for the purpose of creating symmetry and calling-back to something, but some just seems like the writers forget what they wrote earlier.
Perhaps Blue Fairy Plot Device Sickness has turned into a plague. Regina was wearing a blue-fairy-blue dead muppet at Neal’s funeral, and all through NL she had on a blazer that color. They no longer need BF to pop up and conveniently solve their problems–other characters are suddenly capable of finding magic objects, potions or whatever, casting whole entire curses that supposedly were complex, big deals before.
Still the Hope Tent is so beautiful. I saw a picture earlier, made me wonder if the curved blade Emma is holding in the Z confrontation might be Neal’s sword, the one she had in NL? I’m not sure her having that sword necessarily means she doesn’t have magic, as she carried it in NL even when she DID have magic. Yet we’ve sort of laughed before at the impracticality of bringing a sword to a magic fight, unless you know, you’ve got a magic deflecting sword. I suppose it could be useful on one of their friends-turned-monkey, like say Aurora. Hm maybe I should get out of the hope tent, my mind is rather doomtastic still!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
