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I felt there was a theme of replacing, in the cave confessions, and in the Shadow talking to Rumple. I think PP is an older brother who resented his younger brother being born like in the Pan origination story. I’ve come around to the brothers theory team I guess. Maybe Rumple’s mommy died at his birth and Pan resented him for it.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Astrawoid and Slurpeez: I totally feel the same about the “all the ships thread” but I summed it up this way:
Obisgirl is absolutely entitled to express her opinion as she sees fit in her thread. I only wish to state I do not, by having mistakenly participated in it under the assumption it was simply a list with no classification, share those opinions (too much work for mods to delete previous posts so just writing this instead). Please carry on with your thread and enjoy.
I’m not upset at her point of view, as Screwball said, you can’t tell people who to love but I didn’t realize it was an opinion thread rather than an attempt to just list things.
Anyway all the confessions in the Echo Cave shared a theme: replacing love. This is a theme some of us suspect that PP and Rumple have in that way of being a younger brother resented by older one in the PP origin story. He was really after Snow’s confession to unnerve Emma, but the other ones also left her weakened, except I don’t know that Hook’s unnerved her so much. That one I think was aimed at unsettling Hook and Neal.
Emma’s confession is upsetting her because she’s basically saying she knows she cannot replace him, and it hurts every time she’s lost him and she doesn’t want to face it again. She started doing dark magic. She kissed Hook. She is unraveling. She doesn’t want to add any more darkness into her life and her anger, sadness and pain over their previous relationship is just too much right now.
He understood. He loves her, and he isn’t even going to try to replace her again, and he is going to fight to let her know despite how scared she is, that she can trust that he loves her.
Hook is ready to replace Milah, Snow is ready to replace (to some degree) Emma, David sadly fears Snow will have to find a replacement for him–but Emma was not ready to replace Neal, even if she wasn’t ready to accept his love.
She was like that with Henry too at first. She’s scared of being hurt again, and needs reassurance and I was happy that Neal understood it.
Some people want to bend over backwards to make Neal the “bad guy” here, but it’s really hard to me to logically say Neal did anything wrong in response to what Emma said to him. He just took it all in and responded that he will fight for her and he won’t give up. He knows he’s fighting the darkness that’s taken root in her, and it was a total parallel shout out to Belle saying the same about Rumple.
Emma’s pushing him away for much the same reasons Rumple pushed Belle, and it is nothing to do with Hook really.
Hook did go first, after saying the deeper you go, the darker your secret must be, so I think he chose a more minor secret. He’s genuine in thinking he has feelings for Emma, but I think he’s just really confusing the desire to love again, with the desire to love the only available non-murderously crazy girl in the group who gives him the time of day. (Tink remember hasn’t been hanging out with them too much, and I think the writers might play up flirty Hook again when they are ready to shelve mopey Hook pining over Emma).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Obisgirl is absolutely entitled to express her opinion as she sees fit in her thread. I only wish to state I do not, by having mistakenly participated in it under the assumption it was simply a list with no classification, share those opinions (too much work for mods to delete previous posts so just writing this instead). Please carry on with your thread and enjoy.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Dark Shadows= Shadow-Belle aka Pan’s darkside in Drag and Rumple.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Emma does still have anger, of course over Neal’s choices, but she does still love him and it is not just the hurt that terrified her, but also the possibility of experiencing losing him yet again because NL is kind of a death trap. There’s this demonic maniac who wants her son for who the dingle-hopper knows what reason. They don’t know for sure if they can leave or get him back, and now she found out her father cannot leave the island. Even if she barely recognizes him AS her father, it still hurt heavily to hear it the other way around too from Snow.
If PP is Rumple’s brother, this secret of Snow’s might be the one Pan was most hoping to get out there–that fear of being replaced. That is we were speculating, the root of PP’s animosity with Rumple, the sibling rivalry story of Peter looking in the window, seeing Mom with new baby, and deciding to go back to the fairies and NL. (This bit I”ll copy to the secrets thread I think)
I have no idea of their process in writing but I am going to bet they first have the overall theme for the season, the plot and into it they slot the bits that move the character arcs and sub-plots like romances along. So they do have this whole triangle thing but they have set it into a context where there’s bound to be drama of various people wondering about feeling replaced, or replacing one love with the next or so forth.
The writers always have choices and multiple paths to take in a story. I feel they deliberately wrote this in a way to keep the tension going a bit longer, because really, people have always seen the CSF thing from two wildly different perspectives. Yet I think one thing emerged–Neal is not afraid of being replaced by Hook, at least, I didn’t read his reaction that way. He has unconditional love for Emma, and he’s past worrying about whether he’d feel her love in return.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think a brother in the spinsters is what I prefer, but bio brother might explain why he needs Henry–he needed his bloodline but maybe Bae was too disillusioned to work?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree he had to sell a lot in a short time, as did Ariel but I think they had a sweet, dreamy feel to them better than Cinderella and Thomas, and Aurora and Phil. I would be sad not to see more of them together.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
If you look carefully at the dock scene beyond the castle, the town buildings are similar to those when the Jones brothers sailed off scene. I think Eric’s Kingdom may be descended from that line of Kings. but I don’t know if it tied to Xavier or not. Xavier seems like he would have been raised to be ruthless enough to use poison, but Eric was much more romantic and sweet in nature.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Ariel knows how to Dinglehopper. Remember last time they had mystery boxes on the show? I predict this box will be under-the-sea-whelming.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
They understand each other like nothing and no one else. What was amazing though, is how confident Neal sounded (guess Mulan has that effect on people), and he was like a rock, just letting her ugly dark emotions wash over him and saying he will never stop fighting for her. He knows it is not the right time to worry about the romance, that she has enough to handle, but when it is, (and I still think 3×14 too) he will possibly just say he loves her and hands back the keychain.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
