Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
If Regina had been there, she would have had some sassy line about Snow and Secrets. “Secrets? Thanks to her I have none!” Then after in the cave her secret could have been she wants forgiveness with Snow or something but she can’t let go of her anger, but knows she needs to do it to be happy. Sort of what she said in the TinkerBell Episode where she said her anger was all she had.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I liked the crack idea that PP is Rumple’s father, but something makes me think he and Rumple knew each other as boys.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree with what generally people say about the secrets, and do wish Neal had to reveal one too within the cave.
What does make me wonder though, once again, they dodge the nature of Hook’s concern for Bae/Neal. What happened between these guys, and what was Hook doing in the Echo cave the last time? Was he trying to rescue Bae? Finally I learned some of his crew perished there….guess they told each other’s secrets and fought?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I do think most of Emma’s hesitation is about her own reluctance to face all the past pain, her insecurities rather than out of attraction or desire to be with Hook. These cagey, cagey writers….but we must be patient! As I said…Ariel is the name of a heavily contested city in the wartorn zone between Palestine and Israel. Perfectly appropriate description of Emma’s heart now, with Hook and Neal both trying to stake a claim–but ultimately this episode didn’t show us that Emma thought much about Hook that way, it seemed pretty one-sided from his part. We’re supposed to believe in Hope, and I think Second Chances (where oh where is that poster! just make it official already!).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I would say I’m drowning in feels but ….
It is more like this.
I loved this episode. I have wanted Ariel on there, more Regina & Snow, some heartfelt Snowing moments, and I didn’t want all the complexity washed out of Hook. Did he tell the Charmings to get their blessing to ease his guilty conscience about not telling Emma? Or was it really that he felt caution was warranted, to check it out first then tell her? Bless Snow, we’ll never know, because she is true to form: She can’t keep a secret!
Ha, parallel to Regina, Snow blabs, and “kills” Hook’s shot at true love. I do not think Hook felt True Love for Emma, for many reasons, but I agree with whoever said it was for him the desire to move on from Milah that he felt when around Emma and mistook for more. He’s carried that weight around for 300 years, and it was obvious from the way he spoke to Rumple when trying to kill him that Milah was still very much on his mind. Basically, it was last week (in the show timeline I mean), so just like Emma needs time to integrate Neal back into her life, well, I think Hook needs time to really sort himself, become the man of honor again he wishes to be, and then meet someone. (Still sad no Hookriel but Eric was really cute with Ariel, but it would have been the perfect set-up for Hookriel, if we’d seen Eric with someone else and Ariel all sad…..but oh well).
I know its far from over, and we barely got a smile out of Emma, but this was at once less and more than we thought in true A&E fashion.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4856746627_03e8c216da.jpg
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I know blue butterfly! Yet I think it can be easier for a woman like Emma to kiss without strong emotion other than passion than it can be to kiss where her heart might be at risk, where her walls can come down. She is going to be cautious I think and it is just the pace of this story that it needs to pay out over time.
The outdoor shots have JMo in the white sweater she wore in the episode last season where Neal came home with Henry on his back. You cannot see her circle necklace when she wears it, then or now–but it also means if she had the swan one we would not see it either.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
If Hook was genuine about missing Bae, I don’t see much dilemma to tell or not. I think a chance to bond with Milah’s grandson, and son, and the general good opinion of others, but most importantly a regained sense of honor could also be important to what he defines as his happiness. Plus they still think Neal got off the island and knows how (even if maybe he does not actually, sneaky Pan).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
That’s true, but I cannot forget that TV is a changing medium, and a commercial form. There is pressure on the producers (and Adam and Eddy are not just writers, but show-runners) who need to bring in the numbers to please the network, to please the advertisers who want eyeballs. I was just reading an article about Twitter in Forbes talking about how Network TV and Twitter see mutual benefit in promoting an online” water-cooler” to promote live viewing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/10/07/can-twitter-save-tv-and-can-tv-save-twitter/
So they’ve mentioned there is “malleability” in their vision, that they both write to their vision and “for the fans”. I think what it truly means is that they are trying to entertain their core audience, but to do so in a way that still tells the overall story they had in mind. Which pieces are flexible remains a mystery to us as the viewers as we do not know the overall vision and secrets yet to be revealed. The writers may not, and Jane Eppenson (who unlike A&E does admit to writing “ships” or at least to having a focus on character and dialog that results in what people ship) has said she learns new things all the time in the writers room.
For me this comes down to feeling a bit caught between my old way of viewing a story as a passive fan, and feeling as if maybe with the networks struggling to measure eyeballs, if there’s going to be a shift to reality-tv voting type style way of producing even scripted dramatic content? I don’t like the idea of that, simply because I think I agree with what Jane E quoted from JJ Abrams you have to give fans what they need, not what they want in a story. Pure wish fulfillment doesn’t actually make fulfilling stories, or as Henry said, the Hero never believes at first, or MM if true love were easy, everyone would have it. The sadness and angst makes us feel invested in the path of the story, and for me, there’s just more of an emotional story to Neal and Emma, than there is for Hook and Emma. Yet that’s just my feeling, from knowing only part of who the writers wanted these characters to be. So I don’t like the idea of sort of campaigning and producing all sorts of “persuasive” yet completely manipulative and inaccurate statements designed to “win the hearts and minds” of other fans to start shipping what I happen to like, pulling the textbook rhetorical mistakes you see in propaganda fueled political conversations https://bookofbadarguments.com/
I know why I like this story, but I don’t think everyone has to enjoy it or find it appealing. I see signs of why I think it is what they’re telling, but I don’t claim they couldn’t change their minds, or wouldn’t or that I’ve even guessed correctly that it is what they’re doing. I’m just hoping. I do like to discuss, especially when as I said, I see some of those leaps of logic or those double-standards or mind-boggling statements, that people put out in favor of certainty that the story they want is the one being told. I guess the doubts I have about this ship aren’t about the ship itself, in the sense, could it be a good story, are there elements in the narrative that would support it, but entirely about well how much pressure is there on the writers to do the whole “hottest love rhombus in the hamptons” style storyline that’s working for the show that follows? I wanted to watch something about fairytales, twisted ones, grown up ones, yes, but still hopeful ones where things like True Love and good and faith are rewarded, and maybe even villains have a chance, but only once they stop being villains and start earning redemption by thinking of others besides themselves. That isn’t really a reason to think SF has to happen, but ultimately, a large part of what drove apart Neal and Emma was that curse, that Regina and Rumple set in motion, and then again, Tamara as an agent of Pan who threw down that portal. I don’t feel like its a good story if they aren’t able to overcome those obstacles, and have a chance. If as a matter of their characters they aren’t suited, then they aren’t, but show me that in the story after setting it up for me that they didn’t break apart by free choice or lack of love.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
It is silly but it bothers me that there is too much red in Belle’s hair, it makes Ariel’s hair stand out less. I liked the more warm brown hair color they had before.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think the best thing about SF though, is even if you do not get Neal, Emma does.
Let’s see it from her perspective, not just the negatives that some fans point out, but the things she knows about Neal.
She says she knew the moment she saw him again that she still loved him. It means when she said “I love you” she did mean it in a romantic sense. She was not thinking only about how sad it was for Henry. She did not think of it just as losing a friend, because she was devastated. She wanted that second chance as much as he did.
She holds his memory dear. You can tell it in the way she says Neal taught me that and sass-master Regina has no response. The visible emotion that shakes her upon seeing his cave. Even before when he got her back even though he didn’t believe her. Or the way he wanted to be a father, without placing demands on her to be back together with him. The way he accepted her anger, telling her she could keep yelling at him. The way he apologizes for his mistakes, even the ones she’s insistent he isn’t making (like for example, apologizing for not telling her about Tamara, or that Tamara was on her way to town because it might hurt her but she denies she cares). She probably will still be angry, might feel awkward about the things she has done recently, she definitely has questions for him, and Henry will be her priority (and his too). Yet at some point, I hope the writers show us a smile between these two, one of those glorious and rare smiles for both of them that just says “We’re home.”
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
