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The pesky details here matter. Rumple used Emma without her parents consent. Neal told Robin his plan, and though he did go heavy on the guilt tripping, a third party Mulan, was there and approved the plan. They came up with restrictions to safe guard the child together.
Rumple did not do that. He was playing his own game, that resulted in definite harm to many people. So far, we have no idea what the shadow is like, and whether there is going to be or not, lasting harm to Roland. The writers could take the story that way as it doesn’t shy away from dark things, but I felt like they showed Neal has lines he will not cross (killing lost boys) , just like Emma though both say they will do what it takes. They also showed that Neal (probably like Henry would with Regina) hesitates to believe that his father has truly turned his back on the evil ways of hurting others to get what he wants. Remember, the last thing Neal saw before he dropped in the portal again in terms of Rumple was Rumple stepping on Whale’s neck for daring to look at Lacey.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Aww.
I think there’s competing background story for him…
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Ooh, I can see that. The only thing is I thought age wise Milah was 1o years younger than Rumple.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
When we met Lancelot, he referenced having fled another kingdom and I think offhand it was a reference to the whole love triangle with Arthur and Gwen. Lancelot then takes up as a mercenary for George.
At that point, when Charming pulls the sword in stone routine, was that before or after his secret wedding to Snow performed by Lancelot? Timeline headaches!
I also don’t think George is related to Regina, unless in the way many European monarchs related to each other because of constant intermarrying.
We also cannot conclude that Henry had 4 brothers because we don’t know the rules of succession in that fictional Kingdom. Regina took over Leo’s throne, in part because she framed Snow for murder, but it could be the usual rule that a spouse would take over, if heirs not born or too young (as Regent at least). I’m not a historian, but I believe at different points various monarchies have allowed for succession through a female child rather than only the male line. So it might also be the case females could inherit the throne in this Once fantasy kingdom setting. (Eva in Miller’s Daughter is already a princess though not married). So maybe Henry had another brother who had 3 kids and a wife. I think the writers just left space to figure it out later, if they manage to book Rose to play young Cora and want to pad out some storytelling in a future episode.
It really doesn’t feel plot critical to me to learn how exactly Regina’s original royal line might have played into things, as there are multiple kingdoms in this realm.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Over the summer we had a thread, where Girl_hits_Car brought that story up, and we discussed it. A more famous Andersen story is of course “The Little Mermaid.” and in 2 episodes, they are introducing the Little Mermaid as a character, and have talked about connecting her in some way with NL . Andersen’s tale is pretty disquieting, and shadows and darkness are in western culture generally portrayed as bad things. While they might subvert that norm, the shadow so far has come off pretty creepy. On the other hand, it also has not displayed a lot of cunning or intention, with how easily Bae countered it as a child with a match. Mostly we just do not know a ton about it, and whether there’s more than one.
Why did it swoop on Greg, and not Tamara, and so far, has not attacked anyone else? It came when called to Roland, but it appeared to come uninvited to Wendy’s house, shortly after Bae arrived.
We have many guesses about where they could be going, but so far we have not yet been introduced to the Shadow as a separate character. I definitely think it is. I feel it is using Pan, and while Pan is himself not evil, he has done a lot of bad and horrible things, cruel things, as the shadow feeds on the negative emotions and nightmares.
There’s a lot of symbolism with Neverland and dreams. I’ll probably reference this in another thread, but the way time works in NL seems to be like how we perceive time in dreams. A dream might seem but a moment, but when you wake, you’ve been asleep hours. On the other hand, you could feel emotionally as if you have spent years in a dream, then when you wake, it has not been much time at all. In the original Barrie play/novel there are also references to NL being a place of imagination and dreams.
Of course the flipside of dreams are nightmares, all the fears and scary things we do not want to be true. The shadow might represent that, and might be a conscious sort of dark entity feeding on the nightmares.
It’s possible the writers might have some nod or reference here to the concept of Dreamtime in the australian aboriginal sense. The concept is very parallel to Jung’s collective unconscious, that it is to quote the Wikipedia:
an eternal part existed before the life of the individual begins, and continues to exist when the life of the individual ends. Both before and after life, it is believed that this spirit-child exists in the Dreaming and is only initiated into life by being born through a mother.
So if they are tackling the Andersen stories, where themes of the soul become a bit more prevalent, yet setting it in a land heavily associated with dreams, they may be mashing up some kind of soul/dream connection. This in turn ties back to the “dreamwalking” and the sleeping curse, and wraith references still hanging out there somewhat unresolved, but possibly plot points the writers will get to in the back half of season 3. From what we know, the Shadow won’t appear as an actual character until the end of this first half of the season, so possibly they are setting it up to lead into the next half in someway.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Phee, that reference has been nibbling at me too, along with influence from Shakespeare’s, the Tempest, about a group that shipwrecks on an island controlled by a mysterious sorcerer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tempest
I don’t know how directly there is a correlation with it, but there’s sort of this backstory of one brother betraying the other out of the kingdom, and then the other luring him to an island to take back his birthright and expose the betrayal.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think PoM it depends on what it is Pan wants. It could be that Devin ran to join Pan and Felix followed, but I think Felix seems too sadistic. Pan seems to lure in the lost because they make good followers. I don’t know if he harbors resentment toward those who abandon or not.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Very Wacky Theory time: Felix was not abandoned by his family, he left his to avoid his responsibility to them.
Emma was a teen mother. Felix is older than the others. I am curious if any of the lost boys or PP are parents who ran away from their kids rather than being abandoned by theirs. It is just a crazy head-canon I have that Pan if not an older brother is the youth of Rumple’s father, in a sort of Dorian gray thing with his shadow. He turned the clock back, but that is too wacky. But a teen father who ran away rather than step up? Who wanted to be a boy and play, that totally fits with the theme of not wanting to grow up. PP in the original is pretty dense about romantic love, and despite playing dad to Wendy’s mom, it kind of is not his fantasy at all. Then in the original book, Mrs Darling talks about Mr Darling having put his dreams aside for his children. I am simplifying of course.
This is partially PoM fault for bringing up RegalCat, but maybe Felix is the odd one out b/c he is a bit experienced and less kid like. It could be younger siblings too, but I think Felix left rather than being left.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think brothers fit. I was more against the Lost One Rumple thing, but the PP having a baby brother then running away made sense. I remember over the summer I started a joke thread of how is PP related to the family. It is not looking like a joke now!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Phee, I can see all of that. I was thinking there would be an element of betrayal/framing, because of the skeleton key clue. I think whatever happens definitely is the key to Hook turning into a pirate.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
