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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Judging from how many would love to be holding Colin, that’s proof he’s quite a handsome guy, even if not your personal cup of tea 😆
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Yes, they do seem to like to cast those they have worked with before. If she has not been cast perhaps she is angling to be. 😉 If they are going older, I could also see Evangeline Lilly as Ariel now that there are promos of her dressed as an elf for the Hobbit movie, with red hair. Ariel is big enough that they may fill it with a friend from a show.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
😆 🙂 Thanks Phee!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
@BellaRose wrote:
When you have to read pat of a story out loud to the class and instead of reading ‘He went to Neal by the fire’ you read out ‘He went to Nealfire
Lol–and you know if anyone heard that and laughed, they are a ONCER too!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I typed a lot of this before some other posts were finished, but it took me so long I’m posting it anyway.
@WickedRegal wrote:😈 + 😆
Oh dear did we strike a nerve with the Stilskin Dearies, well no offense, but some of you just aren’t listening well to the politeness of my former argument, and dear God, how can you love somebody who is downright wicked?I’m not the type to get in character defending any character, but I cut you some slack on the politeness of your posts, since I thought that was what you were doing (getting in character).
@WickedRegal wrote:
I believe it’s a tad bit unfair how Rumpelstilskin was climbing the latter so high, was Regina was spiraling down.
The Charmings do seem to be a bit soft on Rumple, but I think it has to do with the fact that Rumpel didn’t make it obvious to them that he was out to get them–because he wasn’t out to get them. He just wanted to find Bae, and anything he did that harmed them or anyone else was collateral damage to him, or in the case of a few, an exaggerated and wicked response to an injury the person did (or he thought) they did to him (Milah, Moe, Sheriff, Robin Hood, Regina). Regina on the other hand, it was her goal to harm them, and anyone who wasn’t outright against them (and even then she would). She said she wanted to be the ONLY one with a happy ending. So she defined happiness in terms of others unhappiness–and that is a level of wickedness that I don’t think any other character has reached.
At the start of Season 2, she realized this was not a good path to happiness. She began to change. She started to realize that happiness might be found in Henry’s love, if she could just stop using magic. Then Cora came, and Regina wanted that shortcut to Henry’s love, and well, fell off the path. I don’t think she is back to defining her happiness as other’s suffering, but I do think her willingness to activate the fail-safe meant she still hadn’t gotten to the point that “the happiness of others, will also bring my happiness.” I think she just felt she couldn’t get a clean start if anyone knew of her past–so she had to kill them all. Pretty sad and lacking empathy, but growth from wanting to see others suffer.
@WickedRegal wrote:
And the fact that Rumpelstilskin, the one who manipulated all of this, and believe me, I’m not making assumptions, look at Rumple’s history, now sounds to me, he would not be sitting around spinning golg, but manipulating, and destroying lives of innocent people so he can get back the son he let go of for powerm, at least Regina was attempting to deal with the Charmings rudeness (Excluding Emma), just for the sake of Henry.
Fair enough, Rumpel might have done more than just hang out in his estate–but it still was not shown to us exactly what he did. Whatever he did though, earned him a pretty scary reputation, but not so scary that desperate people feared to deal with him. Belle’s father looked to Rumpel as a potential savior against the ogres. He’s like a mob fixer or something–he’ll take care of your problem, but the offer is one you probably should refuse.
How exactly were the Charmings rude? I must have missed the part of the ettiquette book where you are supposed to be nice to the lady who crashed your wedding, cursed you, tried to have you framed for murder (twice), tried to kill you (but couldn’t because of a protection spell), and a host of other things. When Regina called a truce, she expected them to just welcome her back with open arms, and she should have realized Hallmark doesn’t exactly make a card for that situation for a reason.
@WickedRegal wrote:
So much could have been avoided had Emma looked through Regina’s memories instead of a dog, and not lashed out at her the way that she did! But shoulda, coulda, woulda, too late, what’s done is done.
Trouble is, trust is earned, and Regina had not really earned any. Yes Emma should have looked at Regina’s memories but maybe the spell did not work that way on a human or they realized that Regina could have manipulated it. Cora might still have found something else to make Regina isolated, as that was what Cora wanted.
@Wickedregal wrote:I do believe that Blue Fairy should have helped Regina, with our without her calling, because she came swiftly to Pinocchio without him calling, compared to a girl who was getting abused physically and mentally on a daily basis.
We saw one instance of Cora using her power on Regina, and it seemed obviously hinted that it was not the first time, but it may not have been daily or even an old habit for all of Regina’s life. So we don’t know when Cora’s treatment of Regina became “abuse” rather than strict parenting. We don’t know if Cora warded off BF from helping. We just have to imagine an awful lot, and if you want to imagine that BF has enough magic and the duty to help every suffering kid in FTL and is evil because she does not–then you are once again,rewriting the story. We know fairies have a limited amount of dust and that the kid has to wish–and there’s probably something else defining when BF can help and when she cannot. She may be sneaky, she may just be held down by the magical equivalent of “red tape”. Plus you are downplaying the importance of free will. Cora chose to do evil things, and Regina suffered, but Regina still could have been a good person–her rescue of Snow shows that. Even after Daniel died, Regina didn’t want to be like her mother. So BF did not need to have helped her, even if she could have, because Regina wasn’t so damaged that she had no idea of right or wrong.
@WickedRegal wrote:
And back on Cora, I will say this one last time, Cora had a very hard upbringing, and seems to me, her father wasn’t that much a father, but a drunk. Cora appareantly always had to fend for herself, while getting humiliated for being the Miller’s Daughter.
Yes, she did, but you know who else had a hard life? Emma, Bae and Cinderella. The worst things Bae and Emma did was steal, and Cindy tried to sell off her own baby, but none of them went all crazy bloodlust, serial killer, child abuser like Cora. Some people rise above, some sink below.
@WickedRegal wrote:
,Cora desired power so she can make a stand for herself, and to bring down the ones who kept her down so long, especially when you’re like 27, and having an 18 year old trip you, and getting away with it just because she’s a princess. Now, did Eva deserve what she got, she might have, they story needs to be explored some more, and it’s in perfect nature of humanity to wish harm on those who did you wrong, so we cannot blame her for those wicked thoughts.
Yes, we can blame Cora, because she didn’t have just “wicked thoughts”–she carried out a murder years later after such a minor insult in the scheme of things. If you want to imagine and write more into the story that somehow justifies Cora killing Eva, then others are free to imagine and write more that makes that killing even more cruel and unjustified.
Let’s imagine that Eva married Leopold, and after seeing his kind example, she realized how bratty she had been. She reaches out to Cora, apologizes profusely, and Cora rebuffs her because, as we know, Cora has no heart. Undaunted, Eva vows to change Cora’s mind, and become a truly good person. So Eva sets out to do many good works in her own kingdom. She becomes so beloved by the people of her kingdom, that Cora gets jealous. People are singing Eva’s praises, and hardly anyone likes Cora (who continues to be mean and petty). It gets to the point that despite all Cora’s gold and wealth, that it becomes hard to get people to trade with Xavier’s kingdom. Queen Eva offers aid–but Cora sharply refuses. Nobles and Peasants begin to flee the tyranny in Xavier’s kingdom. Despite Eva’s offer to grant nobility & a safe haven from the angry mobs in Xavier’s kindom, –Cora refuses out of pride. She uses her magic to create an estate of her own far from anyone, out of the royal loop, but Cora vows to topple Eva one day, because Cora just won’t let her grudge go. So in this bit of fan fiction, Eva does everything possible to make amends and Cora just won’t let it go. Because she is too prideful and wicked to have empathy for others.
@WickedRegal wrote:
Cora fell deeply in love with Rumple, but then a choice has to be made, either I can stay here, be princess with power and money, where my future children can be happy, or go with the man I truly love, but risk always being hunted down, killed for calling off the wedding, and my child be in danger constantly. What would be your choice, her’s was rip my heart out, suck it up, and go for the wedding. And if you want someone to blame for breaking Rumple’s blackened heart, then blame King Xavier for putting those thoughts in Cora’s head.
Xavier was a piece of work, no doubt. He said of his own son, Henry, there wasn’t much to love. He seemed ruthless. The thing is–we all must take responsibility for the thoughts we allow in our heads, and so must Cora. She didn’t have to agree with the guy who humiliated her so much and treated her like dirt. If anything, I’d think that would be a reason not to trust that guy’s reasoning on anything. Xavier didn’t suggest he’d hunt her down either. Even if he had–Rumpel was THE DARK ONE. Who the heck was going to find them? She was safe as houses if she stayed with him–but she wouldn’t have been admired and revered by all those who had looked down on her. THAT is what drove her, and nothing else. She wanted that power more than she wanted love.
@WickedRegal wrote:
I will repeat this, Regina is no coward, and she’s not a fool.
Thinking she can get her people to love her after she slaughters an entire village, is kind of foolish. Regina may be clever, she may be intelligent, and probably a far more capable administrator /mayor than Snowing–but she lacks people skills, so she’s a bit “emotionally unintelligent” as it were. She admits she doesn’t know how to love very well, and it shows. She’s learning though, we hope.
@WickedRegal wrote:
She knew Cora would never accept her love for Daniel, and she most definetly wasn’t scared to be Queen, she wanted to be free! And even Snow knew that nobody would ever love Regina no more, which she stated in 1×07 Heart Is A Lonely Hunter, so what else to do, run away and have nothing, or stay and be Queen! And again, Regina stared death in the face and laughed! So she is no coward!
She could have run away, and started over with Henry.Sr. He tells her this in “The thing you love most.” She kills him right after he says it too. She, like her mother, didn’t want to give up power once she had it. Yes, Regina stared death in the face–but you know what she’s too cowardly to face? Until recently, she was too cowardly to face her own responsibility for the misery in her life. She kept trying to blame others until that very last scene where she owns up and decides to sacrifice herself to save others. I give her props for that–but it is not enough to completely redeem her, since she caused the mess of the fail safe in the first place.
I have hope she’ll get redeemed–she did have a horrible mother, and a manipulative imp of a mentor. Plus people like her character, unlike some other evil characters (Tamara as I said). Regina remains quite sympathetic despite everything I have pointed out. That is what makes for a good story. Her flaws get us to care about her, because we see glimmers of the strengths she could have–her toughness, her love for her son, her wounded soul loyally reeling from the loss of true love decades ago, and want her to overcome the flaws. If you totally think she is fine, that it is the rest of the world /show that has to change–well, I’ll agree to disagree and say, Good luck with that.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
When you start watching Lost, even though it never appealed to you to watch it when it came out and you find it a slog to keep going. You do though, just because everyone keeps talking about the parallels, and you know it shared writers and want to get the clues/references. Then you have to take a break watching LOST, even minutes before a big reveal, just to go check these forums. 😆
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
WickedRegal, I’ll grant you we could make more effort to list out Rumpel’s bad acts and include some of Regina’s actions under his column, since he “made” her, the same way we might attribute to Frankie the destruction caused by Gearhart. Still we have watched Regina do more evil things than Rumpel or Cora, whatever one might imagine happened in his life that we have not seen for sure.
Placing the blame on BF really makes me pause in following your logic down the track you have it going to try to make Regina look more innocent than she has been portrayed to be. You ignore the choices everyone made. If you want to ignore choice, then you may as well back it up to Zoso or the Ogres, as BF is not the ultimate source of the dominos falling far as we have seen. What you infer beyond the choices we see is whatever story you as a fan imagine, so that is different for everyone in what we think “must” have happened. So if you tilt the board for Regina, sure she isn’t going to look as bad, and others will look worse, but if you look at only what the SHOW depicts, then she has more screen time doing bad choices than Cora and Rumple.
Whatever manipulations Cora and Rumpel did to Regina, at some point she went from thinking “I don’t want to be like my mother’ to thinking “Yes, my mother is right. Hurt others to get what you want. Might makes right.” Rumpel did give Regina a choice, he didn’t tell her it was the only way. He said if she wanted him to teach her magic, she had to be willing to show dedication. She was the one who chose to rip out the heart of his apprentice, when what he had previously asked her to do was kill a unicorn. He wanted her to cast the dark curse, that’s true, but he definitely did not use his magic to compel or force her to do anything. He is evil for tempting her, for giving her false hope then yanking it away, encouraging her in some of what she did, but not everything.
He did not manipulate her into kidnapping Belle, or Owen, or killing Kurt or trying to curse Emma with the apple, or into trying to send the kids out of town (Hansel and Gretel), attempting to seduce David, or really most of the stuff she does in post-curse SB in season 1. Those actions Regina chose all on her own well outside of Rumpel needing to push her to some result of his own. Cora was not around either. Even when they were pushing her though, Regina had free will. She knew right from wrong. She chose wrong, repeatedly. She said it herself–she does not learn from her mistakes.
For both Regina and Rumpel there are of course those redeeming moments–when they do the right thing, help the heroes, or show love for someone (or get love from someone) good. I think you are right that in terms of adding up “evil” it is not really fair to overlook some of Rumpel’s actions, or his role in her evil, but for me, the overall impression I have is that if you put back Cora’s heart, if you took the curse off Rumpel, neither would have chosen to be as outright evil as Regina has been–though of course, we don’t know for sure. All we know is, she did all these things with her heart in place, without having a magical curse driving her. You can’t even say it is loss of love–Hook is not near her ballpark of evil and he had pretty much the same type of incident of true love’s heart being crushed. True, it wasn’t his own mother doing it, so much less traumatic for him–but he didn’t turn around and pin everything on Bae for some contrived reason (which I’ve seen sort of implied somewhere). Bae did not intend for Rumpel to curse the world to go find him–he cannot be held responsible for that!
In the end, we like the characters we like and we sympathize with them, perhaps overlooking some flaws or feeling some actions were justified, but we aren’t all equally logical about how we do it (like I have seen someone, who perhaps was joking, say Kurt was to blame for Regina killing him since he was rude). Keb has quite the tracking system, so if there are more bad acts for Rumpel that I forgot that Keb did not mention I’d reconsider my opinion, but at this point, that is where I come out too.
I guarantee you this–more people outright hate Tamara and want her to die, than feel that way about Regina, even though Regina has been shown on screen doing more evil things. Most fans say Regina is evil, but they have hope she can be redeemed. I am not sure I have read a lot of that sentiment for Tamara.
So in the end, does it matter if a lot of people think Regina is worse? Most still think redemption will be possible.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Regina has been shown doing more bad things, for less understandable reasons.
In addition to what Marty wrote above–
She has harmed and threatened if not outright ordered children killed several times.
She sent kids into the house of the Blind Witch so she could get the cursed apple.
There were kids in the village she had slaughtered. There were kids that she separated from their parents with the curse.
Even after her “fresh start” she was still evil.
She kidnapped Owen and killed his father.
She tried to kill people by sending them across the curse barrier (encouraging them to leave SB, when knowing about the effects).
She framed MM, and had expected that Katherine, a woman who thought of Regina as a friend, would be killed for that. Gold only had her kidnapped, which was not what she expected.
She tried to kill Henry’s relatives.
She tried to seduce her step-daughter’s husband, who at the time thought he was her “friend’s ” husband. It didn’t work, but she had tried.
She erased Henry’s memory.
She tried to activate her fail-safe to wipe out the entire town. She was stopped by GOAT who actually did it.Against all that bad, we have only a little “good”. She unblocked the well when Gold blocked it. She tried to help Emma to get the True Love Potion to save Henry. She almost sacrificed herself to save the town from the fail-safe. She loves Henry. She once saved Snow White’s life at risk to her own. She stopped the Danielstein monster. She didn’t crush Snow’s heart when tempted by Snow’s pleas to kill her.
I’m not sure she has earned her redemption yet but we’ll see. Most of what drove her was madness from the loss of True love, but at some point it seemed like it was just a habit to crush others to get her way.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I like that Phee. They said there were no beans left, but they did show us a very healthy and large looking bean plant in Regina’s office. Kind of stands to reason Anton could graft another plant but it would just take time, so that Belle cannot immediately go after the others. It would have to be after several episodes. I think it took half the season last time, so maybe she will have working beans by the mid-winter break. I kind of think also that if they totally get rid of the beans, they don’t have an excuse to pop Anton into the story again. We should totally see Tiny again. Perhaps he and Grumpy will agree to go with Belle to look for the others.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Maybe they would have been set up, if the father hadn’t died. Do we know when that happened? It’s possible that Ruth was left alone with just little kid David, and ran it into the ground until he was old enough to help but by then it was just barely enough to survive.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
