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I think the fictional Victorian London may have to do with Alice not being where it appears to her that she is. Those asylum people seemed a bit too interested in her renouncing things all too specifically. I wonder if she is in a trap, not back home at all.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree with what you’re saying there Demileto and Phee, so to me those gifs were just fluffy fun to see, in the same vein as making a video to song lyrics. Enjoyable but not predictive of anything.
Each romantic sub-plot has to play out on its own, in the context of a larger plot. So many things will call back to other situations, sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with romances, and sometimes not even intentionally!
In Manhattan, I remember the writers overused the word “adept”. It stuck out to me, like a “word of the day” kind of thing, though I don’t think there was anything going on except the lack of a thesaurus in the writers’ room.“Mr. Gold: Well, my son’s been running away for a long time now. Now I have a feeling he’s equally adept at it.”
“Hook: Well, lucky for you ladies, I’m quite adept at finding buried treasure.”
“Mr. Gold: Yeah, well, actually, that’s something I’m quite adept at.”
I’m not jumping on board GoldHook for that–but if someone wants to make a music video of them I’ll admit I wouldn’t have a problem staring at scenes of them set to music. 😆@Demileto wrote:
Agreed. Neal and Emma are both complicated, messed up characters with issues both personal and between themselves, which makes for a far more interesting and satisfying love story in the long term to me than Hook and Emma. And then there’s Henry: as the character who drives most of the major storylines forward, I can’t see OUAT ending in a way that doesn’t reflect HIS happy ending, and what more does Henry want than his parents getting back together?
Well, the last part I don’t know if I agree with entirely. Henry wants his parents to be happy, and if he thought they made each other miserable, he probably would not want them together just to create a family unit. He’s already used to the idea of two moms who love him even if they don’t love, let alone like, each other or live with each other. Henry would be happy if everyone could get along and not try to kill/curse each other! Luckily for SF, things between Neal and Emma were never that full of animosity and hate. So it could be written different ways–but I saw it as Henry is intuitive and wanted them together because he thought they did still love each other.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
@Jasminegirl84 wrote:
I would love to see him have a modest background despite what the literature presents. However, it would also be great to see him have a more elite education than he lets on.
It could work either way!
Maybe Henry will call Hook “Captain”. Kids don’t generally use adult’s first names as a sign of respect, though I think Henry isn’t all that formal. I just think if he says Mr. Jones it sounds funny as does Mr. Hook.
@Jasminegirl84 wrote:
It’s hard to tell what his original intent was, but I think it was a combo of keeping it as a souvenir and as a back-up plan. Pirates always have tricks up their sleeves, and Hook has demonstrated that he always keeps a back-up plan. He deliberately hid the bean in the other hand when Rumple chopped his hand off. He hid the bean somewhere else, not the pouch in present apocalyptic SB, etc.
He’s pretty good with sleight of hand–so he may not have magic, but he’s got skills like a show-magician. I agree, he always has a plan, even if he doesn’t think he’ll need it. He ‘s a survivor.
@Jasminegirl84 wrote:@MysteryKat25 wrote:
I need to rewatch the scene again but in Tallahassee when Neal offers to settle down and hang up the thieving, I coulda sworn that Emma said “really?” in a weird way and *then* let herself get wrapped up in the idea of him not leaving her. Soon after we saw that dream of Tallahassee put into place, he was planning on sacrificing everything to go to Canada without her which made her panic and step in for him which resulted in everything else. I felt like she was more attached to the dream / idea of it, than the actual thing. Either that or she was just super surprised by him not wanting to steal stuff anymore but I felt like something was off in that moment with her initial reaction to it. Plus her flippantly saying “like where, Neverland?” – it sounded like she didn’t really believe they could do it – did anybody else feel this way about this scene when first watching (CS goggles off and try to remember cause this was before we fell head over heels for Hook).
I felt she wasn’t fully invested in the idea at first because of Neal’s thieving ways. She desperately wanted a home and a shadow of an idea would suffice because she wants to be part of something permanent. She has been a nomad and a loner (*coughcough Hook coughcough*) most of her life. She eventually believed that Neal meant it as the plan for escape progressed with the watches. There has to be a reason why Emma decided to go to Tallahassee after she was out of jail. I hope they address that later on, at least in a flashback or a conversation. She stayed there for two years. It’s a significant part of her life.
Some people fell in love with Hook at first sight, back in the Crocodile. Others already made up their mind to hate whoever Henry’s father turned out to be, because of the things Emma said in season 1. By the time we see this scene, there were probably plenty of people thinking “Emma, he’s no good, he’s going to break your heart!” then looking to confirm the idea that Emma couldn’t have really been in love with him, that he didn’t really “deserve her”, and so on. My initial reaction though, was it surprised her because it seemed impractical & out of the blue rather than something they had discussed before, but once she saw he was serious, she fell for the idea (and him) more than ever. That’s why she felt so betrayed and hurt in the end, because he (and the idea of a home) meant so much to her.
If you listen to the official podcast with A&E for Tallahassee, they talk about that scene, as well as Neal and Emma’s motivations. I wish there were a transcript for it, because I don’t want to claim they confirm something when it’s more my interpretation of what they are saying then what they actually said. They are so tricky with how they phrase things! They do literally say though that Neal “wraps Emma up in his dream” of a home, but then she gets him to believe in her that she can steal the watches and pull that off. They start talking around the 3 second mark I think. Then around the 7 second or so, they talk about Tallahasee and say “it’s safe to say she was probably looking for him”. I don’t know they’ll revisit Emma’s life in Tallahassee — in a way, it’s not relevant to what is happening in the story moving forward. We wonder, because we’re sort of stuck in summer hiatus, analyzing and looking for clues and crumbs. Once the new season starts though, I think it’ll be clear that what is more important than how she felt at one point, is how she feels in the current story.
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
* I hope we get the team split up a little in NL so that Hook & Emma get more interaction without others around so that she can see the real him. He’s not very open when others can see it (yet) but Emma gets to him and I think adventures in NL would be fun.
I think that’s pretty likely, that Hook and Emma will be split off from the group. However they split it up though, short of putting Hook with JUST Rumpel, it would be some interesting development for CS. Obviously, if he bonds with Snow or Charming, that helps offset objections that he wouldn’t fit into her family. If he’s adventuring with Regina, it might bring out some jealousy from Emma, pushing her to realize she wants his attention.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Emma has been written to be so strong and tough, using Charming’s sword to kill a dragon, that the traditional fairy tale role of being a damsel in distress waiting for the dashing prince to save her just doesn’t fit her. Not that Snow was passively waiting for Charming in OUAT, but Bae seems to have more obvious parallels to Snow, than Charming. They even both lost their mothers at a young age, and had to live with their father until the father made a choice that was, to put it mildly, horribly bad for the kid, but at the time of the decision seemed like a good idea. Leopold marries Regina, thinking it will give Snow a mother, and Rumpel gets the dagger thinking it will save Bae from the draft. Both ended in tears!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Exactly, Rumples Girl–and when I read them (for whatever ship/context) I usually see the differences too. I’m not going to do them for all of them, but the ones on the first page, these were my thoughts–
1) The Katherine/Tamara parallel –Charming was cursed to be with Katherine–Neal may have been manipulated emotionally, but it was his choice to be with Tamara.
2) The pregnancy Test– Snow and Charming are together and happy, while Emma is alone, in jail, and wondering if Neal abandoned/played/betrayed her.
3)The reunion with child– Snowing are both reunited with Emma, but for Henry he came there with Emma and was only meeting Neal for the first time.
4)The way he looks at her– Katherine is realizing what she has with David isn’t real, but Tamara knows it is a scam, so she points it out to further her manipulation of Neal and buy some exploring time.
5)The Wanted Poster– Snow was innocent of murder and treason (though she was guilty of robbery but I can’t remember if that was on the poster), but Neal was guilty of stealing the watches.
So besides showing the writers weren’t just phoning it in by copying things exactly, those differences also make for a darker/angstier path for Neal and Emma, than that of Snowing’s (in contrast) easier fairytale romance. Some might see that as a sign SF is not “meant to be”, but others think it’s just the writers making SF work harder for the happy ending.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I don’t usually focus on lists of parallels, as I think it can often be like looking at clouds and imagining shapes–you will see what you want. I kind of prefer to talk about plot lines and what the characters thought/felt and try to be logical about it. Still, I have read a few now on other threads for other couples and got to wondering what there were for Swanfire. This page has some GIFs of storyline developments that are parallel between Snowing and SF, and the video clips let you see side by side the camera angles/directing are uncannily similar, not just the story elements.
As I said, it’s like seeing pictures in cloud shapes, but fun all the same. Of course, that’s couple to couple parallels. It doesn’t get into the parallels in Emma and Neal as individual characters on their respective journeys as much. I was looking at Emma’s apartment in the pilot versus a screenshot of Neal’s and nothing jumped out at me as similar–his was cluttered and very green. Hers was sparse, not colorful except for a rubix cube, but I didn’t have a lot of angles in the pics of Neal’s apartment. The big clues of course for SF were the dreamcatcher that he kept, and the obvious lack of anything suggesting a woman lived there too.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
In the official podcast, A&E talked about Milah, and said something that I think informs how they meant her character to be. They said Milah knew that all Rumpel’s life he had been living in the shadow of having a coward father. This was a great source of unhappiness for Rumpel. So then he comes home, having just trapped his family in that same fate. So while on the one hand, Rumpel hobbled himself out of love (so his son wouldn’t grow up without him) on the other, from Milah’s point of view, it was also a short-sighted and cowardly act.
Given fan reactions to Neal, she did have a point–I’ve seen a few people who say “he’s a coward just like Rumpel” regardless of the scenes that highlight Baelfire’s bravery and courage. There is a bias that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Yet her main concern was not the effect on Bae, but on herself since she runs off for her true love/adventure/new life without Bae.
I’ve also thought about post-natal depression for her early actions, but I don’t think the writers really intended to write her that way. They could pretty easily make her a lot more sympathetic by showing that Milah had a very rough time giving birth/caring for a newborn without much support from a village full of people angry that Rumpel deserted their army, while their sons/husbands/fathers died. They could show her struggling, and coming to the conclusion that Bae is better off without her because she is to damaged to be a good mother–but I doubt they’ll spend the time to do that, since she’s really more a plot device than character they want to develop in her own right.
What’s interesting though is that Rumpel doesn’t seem heart broken over her loss so much as just angry at her for saying she never loved him. I didn’t get the impression he mourned her loss.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
There are some things that are just coincidence at the time the writers created it, and some things that are intentional parallels and threads for larger stories. I’m guessing Hansel and Gretel’s compass falls into the coincidence category, and doesn’t really relate to the Giant’s one. Hansel and Gretel seemed to kind of be “done” as a story, but I think the giant’s compass could come back into play now that they have a bean shortage and a need to get some travels done between NL, FTL, SB–and who knows where else!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
There may be more to the story of the compass, but it is not something that seemed like an obvious mistake or inconsistency if there is not. We learn in Tiny that Anton likes human stuff, so that could be one reason he made a necklace of it. I can’t remember whether he had pockets in that robe, but his brother smashed his Harp. So maybe after that incident, Anton decided to keep some of the more unique things on his person so it wouldn’t happen again. Hook says the compass is legendary, so perhaps Anton knew that.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
They were shown as having a lot of human treasure for some reason that was not explained–like the human sized Golden Harp (a nod to more traditional versions of Jack and the beanstalk). Maybe they got that gold in trade back before Humans started raiding worlds and the Giants cut them off.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
