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What I was suggesting was that Neal’s quote about his age doesn’t imply he considers himself as having lived 100’s of years, but rather, if he had come straight to a land without magic when he left FTL, THEN he would have had to have been 100’s of years old. If time in NL is not synched to time in FTL or the Land Without Magic, then it is possible that the effects of it can go different ways. Wendy spent more time in NL than she was away (or so it seemed to her). Perhaps the opposite can happen too–you spend less time in NL than it seems to you (but more time in the real world has passed). It could also affect different people differently. So Wendy returns the next morning, Bae gets sent to 1991 and Hook ends up back in FTL right before the curse hits (even though I’m supposing he left after Bae). It’s still not time travel in the sense that any person can go into the future or past where they themselves might already exist. It’s more like what happens when you cross time zones using planes that have different flight paths. The length of time that elapses on one’s journey from NL to another place can be varied, anything from a night to a few centuries. So let’s call it the “portal time back varies” idea.
I think there will be magic in NL–Rumpel and Regina don’t exactly pack much punch without it (Rumpel’s cane-o-pain aside).
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
There could be more than one shadow, if PP can “rip” them from people’s bodies. Perhaps PP is a shadow himself because that is just the type of magical creature he is, just like dwarfs and fairies and mermaids just are what they are.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Unless there is more than one Shadow….maybe that one was a minion, but “Peter Pan” is himself nothing but a shadow too.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Well what did A&E say EXACTLY about Tamara? Did they say she is her own story, or she doesn’t have a fairy tale counterpart? Technically, Peter Pan is not a fairy tale, but a classic story and NL is not FTL, so maybe the Tiger Lilly connection could work. I just don’t think BF is anything but a short cut though.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I like the theory that Peter wants the Dark Ones powers (specifically the immortality & agelessness) so he doesn’t have to stay in Neverland but still won’t have to grow up. The Shadow could be his, ripped from his own body, but I think it was that of a Lost One, ripped and now a minion of limited intelligence that he can send to do simple tasks as long as it is night/dark.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree, the “can’t leave once you step foot on land” thing may not be that literal. How exactly do boys who cannot fly through portals or however the Shadow did it, get home? Wendy managed to talk the shadow into taking her back, but she had something to offer it–her brothers in trade. (Though why it took her in the first place I don’t know unless she intercepted it as it was trying to get to her brothers and she was just so relentless and bossy until it took her, but her brothers were too sleepy/scared to go).
Hook left NL before the curse struck, that much is known, because of the scenes in Queen of Hearts where he breaks into Regina’s castle to talk to Belle. That led to him being sent to Wonderland, to meet Cora, and that’s how he was in the forest with Cora.
It’s a good guess Smee went with Hook from NL to FTL, but did not go into the Queen’s castle. My question is–where is Hook’s crew? There were lots of guys on that boat in NL. We get to SB and Hook is sailing off alone. I know, meta-reason is they don’t want to film him gathering up all the extras then sailing off, ruins the flow and the lonely image of him on his ship. Yet logically where did they go?
Did they all die in NL and only he and Smee made it back to FTL ? Were they living in SB like Smee and Hook just didn’t care (pirate to pirate, what’d you expect?). Some versions of Hook after all show him as not all-that-loved, even mocked. It seems like Killian Jones commanded the trust and loyalty of his crew.
So my run-away train of thought is (because flying could be cheesy), that once you get close to NL, you are in the Pan’s domain and he can do nasty things to you (like rip your shadow) and that most of Hook’s crew are dead. He sacrificed them in a fight to rescue Bae, only to find out the Pan had let Bae go (for the prophecy). Then he told Hook about Belle and the Queen, and sent him on. Because he had forseen Hook bringing Rumpelstilkin to him on his ship (but of course, he doesn’t tell Hook that).
There is no time travel, but NL exists out of time. So when you enter it and when you leave it could put you further into the future in whatever land you go to, and it may not be the same amount forward for everyone. It would not really count as time travel as you could not go back in time doing this (further back then when you left, though less time could have passed in your home world than you spent in NL).
Do we know for sure that either Neal or Hook have said they’ve been alive for 100’s of years versus we’re just assuming they spent centuries in NL because of no time travel?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I love the mirror idea so much!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I’m conflicted about Milah. I agree with what Keb says, but divorce and visitation were just not FTL ways of life. Nor is a pirate ship really a good place for a kid.
I do think Hook was hasty in how he handled Bae’s rejection. Bae is 14, and had been hurt and surprised a lot. Hook didn’t have experience enough to realize that kids this age often need patience, will say hurtful things to even those they love. It is part of growing up to start challenging the would-be parental figures, and thinking they don’t know what is best for you. Then you throw in someone who is a pirate and ran away with your mother and expect more or less instant trust?
I wish Hook had patiently kept at it, so things could have changed between them (I’m thinking of the Dread Pirates Robert scenario….with Hook saying every night he’ll most likely kill Bae in the morning, but then never doing it until Bae trusts him. ). I’m hopeful that Hook realizes his mistake sooner and goes to rescue Bae. We do know Bae escapes eventually, and that he doesn’t hate Hook outright. After all, he even asks Emma if she is OK with leaving Hook in the closet, despite having no reason to really know Emma knew Hook. It’s like he got over assuming Hook was dangerous somehow, but still not so much to mind leaving him to fend for himself.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Interesting, so Greg became a double agent of sorts for the H.O.? Perhaps he is going to take Henry to Pan so the H.O. can then destroy NL too? Perhaps Tamara is how he got caught up with the H.O.–perhaps she originally hunted Greg when he came back to the Land Without Magic, but realizing he was not inherently magical, just had been stolen then they …I can’t say fell in love. Got together let’s say.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I doubt Felix is a young Jefferson. Jefferson is not blonde so why would blonde hair be a clue if they wanted to hint that? I do think it is possible however that Jefferson encountered Bae while working for Rumpel. Rumpel never told Jefferson why he wanted to go to a Land without Magic. So it’s probable he never told him about his son. We do know something had to sever the lucrative working relationship between Rumpel and Jefferson to the point Jefferson is pretty much trying to live on nothing out in the forest with his daughter–and within the bounds of Regina’s kingdom to boot. Something that also explains why the moment the curse broke and he could leave his house, he did not immediately rescue Belle to gain favor with Gold. He waited until Regina betrayed him to do it out of revenge since he didn’t have it in him to kill Regina.
If they want to include busy Seb Stan next season, it can’t be too big of a plot point as he won’t have time for a long arc. Something like being the one to help Bae escape NL could work.
I do agree about the logic that the Shadow can’t be the same entity as Peter Pan or he would have already known Bae wasn’t the right boy. Felix definitely seemed to be more than the regular run of the mill minion, a 2nd in charge perhaps? What I can’t figure out about Tamara and Greg though is where all the “science” stuff came in for them as NL didn’t seem like a science driven place.
*edit– Unless the shadow ripping is shown not to be magical but “scientific”?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
