[kfchimera]

@BeastWhisperer wrote:

People can fanwank it or not as makes it most enjoyable to them, but it’d be refreshing to see the heroes at least acknowledge that swords don’t really stand a chance against magic.

It would be refreshing, but after that they have to come up with something else, or else not be able to do all the cool/fun magic stuff. Though if they did, I think it would be in keeping with the wry humor the show uses sometimes (like when Prince James died)…There was this cartoon spoof I saw once where Aquaman is captured and says “My ability to talk to fish is of absolutely no use!”. That cracked me up, and it’s the same idea here.

[kfchimera]

@Riddleraven wrote:

I don’t want them to surrender. I’m just tired of their POSTURING. They always act like they don’t even KNOW that their swords are useless. They always seem to think, “This time, it’ll work!” And that’s just stupid.

Why couldn’t the writers just drop a line that Charming has an enchanted sword, or that some people have some kind of innate magic dampening field or resistance.
I sort of fan-rewrote that scene to imagine that Regina and Cora were drained magically speaking from breaking the protection spell. That is why Cora could not just turn them (or their swords at the least!) into fish (as she did the guy on the dock…so transformation was not exclusive to the dark one). So it took her awhile to build enough rage and magic to transport them (and she could not transport them into anything b/c Emma’s magic prevented it). At least that what I am going with.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@Riddleraven wrote:

@Arkham258 wrote:

That’s kind of what I was hinting at. We’ve been seeing Emma use magic with no price at all this season…or not any we’ve yet seen anyway. I also feel like there’s no reason David, Snow or anyone else can’t use magic given the way Rumpel explained it this episode.

I don’t know about that. The other magic we saw was her using it to see Pongo’s memories. That definitely had a price. Regina would’ve hung on to goodness (for a least a while longer) if Emma had continued to be on her side, saying that she didn’t do it! Getting to go to a party where everyone hated but tolerated her wasn’t a good enough reward for stopping the evilness, but having someone who used to be a rival believe in her and stick up for her? That would’ve meant something. And Snow and Charming would’ve probably followed too. And Henry also would’ve been like, “I know you didn’t do it.” So Regina wouldn’t have needed Cora and a lot of this stuff could have perhaps been prevented. I think that is the price they paid.

Yes, not only does magic come at a price, you don’t get to always know clearly what it is until it is too late.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@Phee wrote:

And he was perfectly happy to sign his son’s life away by letting him marry her, even though he knew exactly what type of person she was. Poor Henry really was screwed over.

Xavier seemed to be able to distance himself from his feelings while still having (far as we know!) his heart. If you are going to rule, you cannot be too soft-hearted as there are tough choices you have to make. Yet if you are too heartless, you will become a monster and abuse your power and lose sight of how to use your power properly. I don’t think Xavier had the right balance, but I get the feeling Henry Sr. was probably in the “not strategic enough” category in his father’s opinion. Xavier probably thought Cora would help his son to have more spine. He probably just didn’t realize how dangerous she was, perhaps because he was too arrogant to believe a miller’s daughter could be smarter, stronger and more ruthless than him.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@dena81 wrote:

@KFChimera wrote:

@dena81 wrote:

My theory? Somehow August arranged it with Neal to protect her or something like that. So he’s playing the boyfriend/fiancee etc Why? because the filming pics where August and Neal are talking, Tamara doesn't look like she's watching them, it's almost like they're staked out there for her So, the whole coffee bit is setup and that’s why when he sees Emma he’s like “It’s complicated” because I’m sure he wants to be like “I want to tell you the whole story so you don’t think I moved on because I haven’t” After all why did they use that wording? Why did Ausiello focus on that word as did JMo in her interview? Complicated is not what you use to describe, hey it’s been 11 years and I just moved on and fell in love with someone else, sorry. I know some thought it was complicated due to her not being magical which i still don’t believe, there’s too much emphasis. And he’s stuck in this role but he probably cares about Tamara in a way and he also has to keep up the pretense of her protector or whatever and you can’t just say “Oh HAI THIS IS THE COMPLICATED THING” cuz then Tamara will be all “Huh?” so there’s something I think he knwos more of that we havent’ found out yet.

The phrase “It’s complicated” is almost a cliche phrase that people use when talking about romantic triangles. There’s even a movie along those lines, titled It’s complicated. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1230414/. So Neal’s “it’s compllicated” may actually not be THAT complex as some big conspiracy. But on this show…we never know!

Which would insinuate that he thinks he’s in a love triangle. This is when he’s first seen her after almost 11 years. You don’t tell your ex that you’ve just seen after a decade “It’s complicate” just to insinuate a love triangle…there’s more to it and honestly the spoilers out with Eddy’s answers about Tamara being involved in a love triangle and them skirting around how we’re going to love her part in the whole story and NEVER using the word love triangle or referencing her as interfering with the two, and the fact they are still saying the rest of this season is Neal and Emma figuring out “what now” with the fact they are both still in love with each other, tells me a very, very different story.

I don’t disagree with that interpretation of how Emma and Neal feel, but I don’t think THAT scene was designed to show us that Neal is only in love with Emma and has no feelings for Tamara, nor Tamara for Neal and that there is a big conspiracy going on.

I thought the simplest explanation of that scene was the writers wanted to introduce the character of Tamara, and that the writers (not any of the characters in the scene) wanted to imply there is a romantic triangle of some kind. Even if Neal and Emma are still in love with each other, there is still a triangle if Tamara is in love with Neal. Or if Neal loves both Tamara and Emma, but Emma really has moved on and doesn’t love Neal.

I don’t think Neal the character was trying to “insinuate” that there was a love triangle. I thought the character was hesitant to reveal that he has a fiance to Emma. Now why he felt that way was something I think the writers intended to be unclear.

They could have had him be direct and say “this is my Fiance’s car” from the start. They could have given him more time to clarify what he felt was complicated. Instead, they have Tamara appear right away. So if the writers wanted to make clear that Neal is only in love with Emma, and she is only in love with him, the writers would have written the scene differently. Instead, we get this scene where Emma and Neal’s exact feelings are not discussed. Yes, it is a show with a lot of layers and mysteries, and it could be that when Neal says “it’s complicated” he means it is really crazy, magically, convoluted and complicated. Or it might be, as I took it, that he is feeling conflicted about revealing that he has moved on.

Now that the next episode has aired, we get a little follow up, that in my view, is still consistent with my interpretation of that scene. Neal kind of cautiously tries to bring the subject of his engagement up again. I can’t remember exactly what he said (something like he wasn’t trying to hide the fact he was engaged) and then we see Emma’s reaction. While some might take her statement that she doesn’t care if someone she dated 11 years ago is engaged at face value, if you are rooting for SwanFire, you can view what she said as that she is hurt and putting up a wall by saying that in return.

I see both interpretations of Emma’s response as valid right now until the writers give us more. Neither scene was long enough for me to be sure of how the characters feel about each other. But I do think, given the circumstances they were in, that Emma’s father and mother were there, Gold was dying, Regina and Cora about to attack, that Emma wouldn’t have wanted to open up and really discuss her feelings with Neal.

Characters don’t seem as real if they are shown as always fully aware and in control of their own emotions. Plus, having uncertainty in the mind of a character preserves mystery for the viewers, and it can make characters seem more complex. Too much though, and the character simply seems inconsistent, so there is a fine line. In Season 1 for example, Snow has to almost badger Emma into admitting that Emma is attracted to Graham. In return, Emma needles Snow a lot about Snow’s feelings for David. Or the whole storyline with Regina’s “redemption tour”. Regina wanted to redeem herself, but later on, under her mother’s influence, she began to question if that was what she really wanted.
So Emma might not still feel something for Neal, or she may but be in denial. Or she might not NOW, but did before, and might again as the season progresses.
I just see a lot of possibility right now with where things can go.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

If she were just playing him, or he was playing her, I don’t think it would be as tragic. I don’t think either had simple emotions, or you might say “pure” emotions. Rumpel changed the deal, but there was still a deal. Cora changed her mind, but had to rip out her own heart to go through with it. They both still had reservations and doubts. That is why it was not “true” enough of a love to change Rumpel’s form.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

KFChimera: 1) I adore your name, haven’t had the chance to say that. 2)

Thanks!

And Phee– 😆 at that reference.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

Bae seemed surprised that Emma could use magic. Maybe not everyone can access their emotions in quite that way. I think of it like acting. Everyone can pretend, but clearly some people are so much better at conveying complex emotions that it is almost like magic the way they can portray so much.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

‘Once Upon A Time’: A Major Death & More Scoop From Sunday’s Episode
3. Bad romance: A surprise romantic pairing is revealed this Sunday — one you probably didn’t even think was possible. All I can say is that the truth tends to come out in extremely dire situations.

I am now picturing a Rumpel/Cora (corumple?) fanvid to Lady GaGa’s song by that name….no I am not shipping those two! But it is a funny song to me, and somehow would fit those two in a spoofy kind of way.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

I want to see more of Whales’ world ( that phrase sounds like an amusement park!). Somehow from discussing Whale, this thread of conversation moved on to Bae’s fate, romantic relationships and people’s philosophies of how they root for what they do. All very interesting, good points made, but lest it get lost: More Whale is good! Anders is so game as an actor. The trouble is that his backstory in his world feels so disconnected from everyone else’s. So there are less connections and timeline revealed than during the FTL characters flashbacks, so the writers are limited with him. If his world is “Gothic” it does bring in a potentially interesting theme often explored in that genre of novels–to what extent do we bear the “sins” of previous generations? Cora after all pushes her animosity against Eva down to her daughter Snow. Regina carries on the feud. Malificient cursed Aurora and her mother. There must be more such stories.

On Tamara–what if she is a descendant of the original Wendy? ( There is actually a series of books for young readers authorized by Disney that I read to my daughter, that suggests Wendy’s line passes the tale and the “duty” of visiting Neverland for spring cleaning down from mother to daughter. It’s a cute series, Fairies and the Quest for Neverland by Gail Carson Levine is the one I saw. ) Of course then why would they not have revealed a last name as it would not be Darling? So I don’t think this is who Tamara is, but I kind of wish they were doing that.

Anyway…more Whale please!

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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