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I agree with RG. The bit about how they have a story and a start and end, like CA to NY in mind is an analogy I thought of too. ALong the way there’ll be stops in mind with various characters they never necessarily knew they’d get. Yet they hinted that it could change things but all they really identified as major characters were Emma, Rumple and Regina. Interesting, because you’d think Snow and Charming were in there but that’s what they said. So those are there 3, 2 villians, 1 hero. Anyone else? Just a city along the way. Maybe that means SQ is the final deal for all we know, but at the moment? It isn’t looking good for Neal and it’s not feeling like the same tongue-in-cheek-wink-wink way it didn’t look good at the end of Season 2. On paper, it should look good for Neal. He came back from being shot, worked hard to get to Emma and Henry, and while Emma had fears, everyone rooted for her to put those aside and realize she could be more than the savior, even if not rooting for her to be with the same person as everyone else. Just as Rumple and Belle faced a permanent separation, the Charmings too from Emma, and Henry from one of his mothers and father, we all felt things would have to get better–it couldn’t stay that way! Now to come back to this season and we’d be rooting very hard for the hope to start pouring in, for the good things to start happening. Yet it sounds like they’re teeing up a Huntsman/August surprise for whatever reason, and Neal will be paying that price. I don’t think it was their original as in “chapter 1” intention. They talked too much about how stories change. I think when they came up with Season 2 there was a shift mid way through the earlier episodes, perhaps after their 2nd comic con, where they realized they needed to do certain things for fans. At SDCC, RH was a side character we shouldn’t expect to see again. At NY CC? Regina would be getting a surprising new love story. I just feel they realized Hook and Regina are two powerhouse characters (as is Rumple with Belle), and they have to “make them happy” to make the big fan blocks happy. So here we are, while there are a number of SQ Regina fans, there are more that are just “Regina happiness” fans and the fact Emma’s a woman isn’t a big deal to them and like any other Emma ship, she’s the protagonist, so has to be her. Yet if a new character comes in, and is given big stories and air time, should please those people (some of them of course). RH fits a little into Neal’s space as a good guy but still a thief, and as a father. He also fits a little in Hook’s as a fantasy chracter in leather with a bit of sass (and some mighty good looks that we see all too well thanks to WR”s poster there :P). I could see him stepping into the role either one plays in the cast, but ultimatley, I feel the way A&E are talking in interviews is just so devoid of excitement about Neal and full of excitement for Hook that it makes me feel doubtful about his future. I wish it were not that way. I adore Neal, and feel like if they’ve tugged on our heartstrings with Emma, they’ve doubly done it with Neal in how they presented him and as a fan who particpates online, with how much unnecessary hate he got. If people all along had just said, he made mistakes, tried to make up for it, but Hook’s tryint too and I just like him on screen visually–wouldn’t have been a big deal to me. Yet people kept trying to make Neal out as a monster, and Hook as a fluffy innocent bunny who never did a thing wrong. I didn’t ever feel “goodness” in terms of morality conferred some advantage when it came to what did or didn’t necessarily make a good love story–take a look at Rumbelle. No one’s pushing FrenchCricket or anything (HopperBelle?). Being a good guy doesn’t mean you’re an interesting romantic lead. I thought Neal’s story was interesting though, but it is angsty. There were things they had to develop with him to make it work but if they’re not interested in it because its not as marketable a character, because they’re “fighting’ visions from writers in the writers room and fans too–maybe even the actors involved, who knows. They certainly put a lot of clues in that they had a larger story in mind with Neal but if they’re setting up to cut him loose huntsman /august style, then none of the set-up has to pay off.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Macy and Slurpeez– unfortunately, I don’t feel confident that they’re playing that long of a con right now. It’s just the way they jumped from talking about how Hook’s not going anywhere, to talking about Neal and character regression. Maybe it was the way the writer edited the interview but there was that bit about things getting heated in the writers room. Maybe the reason we have so many differences of opinion as fans interpreting things is because the writers have different thoughts and put in bread crumbs that point different ways. If the writers want to shift things for CS, they can do the kinds of retcons they’ve done before that give you a new perspective on old scenes by taking Neal in the direction of the “guy with good initial intentions, who fails to deliver”. Pan had a bit of that as Malcolm, who dropped off Rumple with caring “spinsters” then went to drink at the pub instead of looking for work. There are things they can tear down in Neal’s character as he isn’t a perfect guy of course, and if they have him regress to lacking commitment, to taking the easy way out, to looking for shortcuts sort of August Booth part II? They can do the same thing to Neal they did to August basically, truncate whatever they had planned so they can just move on with a new story.
Maybe they’re being cagey, but I don’t even feel they are. I feel they’re just not interested in Neal as a character any more. They’ve cut their losses against the tide of the fandom on that, closed the chapter they were writing and started a new story with a new theme. A theme that ought to fit Neal and Emma to a “T”–but as people said in the non-ship threads, a theme that one could relate to many characters as well. If the Jolly Roger for example were used to build a cabinet for Hook to escape the 2nd curse, and he destroyed his home to help get Emma to hers? That’s a pretty powerful act of love I think, but it is hard for me to not be upset with how the writers poorly executed the S2 to S3 transition. I was all set to root for Hook to redeem and fall for Emma in S2, but they had him continuing to work for Cora for too long. Then to say he was a “friend” to Neal but knew of Tamara’s plans and didn’t do anything? To use that status to try to bond with Emma not even a day after Neal died, while her son was kidnapped and her mind really shouldn’t be on romance? Then the Tinkerbell flirting scene on top of all that, it just put me off so much, yet the writers perhaps think they’ve been building sympathy for Hook. For some fans they have. Some eat all this up. I just find myself cringing. It’s like the Graham and Regina thing. I didn’t find it fun and flirty given she set his memories and was complaining “no one has free will, it wasn’t real” more or less in one scene in the same episode. Do they even know what they’re writing sometimes? I’m ok with enjoying Regina and Graham in a creepy way, like Mirror/Regina is creepy but if I’m supposed to think it was romantic? Rather than manipulative and another facet of her dark nature? That is where I really don’t know what the writers are doing. It could just be that or its speed plotting with trying to get Hook into romantic lead and its failing because its going too fast with not enough time in the character’s lives to react to it. A year time jump is a very plot device seeming way to handle it–but it does address Gilmore aging and GG having a kid too. So it might not all be as bad as I think right now. I’m trying to look for good signs that they’re being tricky, as we know they’ve been. As I said with that Zen story “Maybe’–you never know how fortune will turn.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Wow! Those are the kind of things I was saying OUAT should make. And there they are!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
We need a gifset of Emma doing the pullups on the JR after the portal outtake.
They could have shown her doing pushups, but they installed a bar for her to do pullups. It is more impressive visually I suppose, harder to do and very Terminator-esque. Still I like to think it also reflects Emma thinking I was not strong enough, I failed to pull him up and I cannot let that happen with Henry.
On another note I love those Home graphics.
Neal: Where? I’ll tell you where. Close your eyes and point. Whatever spot you pick, that’s our home
This theme has been woven repeatedly for these two!
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
A Neal flashback would be so awesome toward filling the character out, but then again, Emma hardly gets any either! There are many stories they can tell about him, but obviously for any character there’s tons of possibilities and truly it is only up to the imagination of the writer.
If it were me, I’d have stories about how Neal arrived in this world, perhaps going through Oz or some other lands. I’d make him a bit like “forrest gump” but smarter :P, on the run through many other Fairy Tale /Classic characters stories. Someone mentioned Oliver Twist, and obviously, he connects to the Peter Pan story, but he also could play into others if the writers have the desire to write more background on him.
At times though it worries me that the writers want to just “close the chapter” and not just sweep under the rug, but just build a new floor and forget about the first 3.5 seasons and pretend we’re playing with basically new characters. That here’s single mother Emma, never mind how she got there, but here’s handsome pirate “old friend” Hook, come to help her on a journey spanning worlds to rescue her family (ie Charming and Snow). That Henry’s father’s side of the family is just forgotten now, as part of this tale. What of Belle, Neal and Rumple? If I think about Season 1 & 2 , it was in the “A” storyline a war between the Charmings and Regina, the Evil Queen. The B story was how Rumple used that war to further his own end of finding his son. We’ve wrapped up all of that, the “war” is over with the EQ, and Rumple found his son. The Charmills family is at peace more or less because of Henry, and Rumple has his son back (kind of, since he paid the ultimate price or so we think). So the next chapter is built around a theme of “Home” to mirror the first half being about belief. They say they’re going to explore what it means.
We know so little, but apparently envy is going to be a theme, and obviously it will have to do with WWW and Regina, yet I could easily see it being a theme for Hook or Neal. Whoever is on the outs with Emma could be envious of the other. I’d hope that’s Hook as Neal said he’d quit bugging Emma and just support her. So hopefully he wouldn’t be the envious, jealous type but Hook on the other hand seems like he definitely would be. We had hints of that for both guys really with the Dark Hollow fight, but Hook did sort of lurk and eavesdrop and we didn’t see that the other way around. Neal didn’t appear to be trying to undermine Hook’s confidence. Neal didn’t go hit on another woman to boost his ego. Hook’s the boastful type and it feels like he’s never really handled rejection well, nor seems to want to take “No” for an answer. On the other hand they are showing him as genuine about his feelings to the point of “risking his life” in the church and turning Pan down, so maybe they wouldn’t take him in the direction of going stalker-boy-friend-crazy. It could be Tinkerbell then, as there is a history in PP story of getting jealous of Wendy too and acting spitefully. I think this Tink seems too sweet, but we know she did something unfairylike to ruin her first chance at being a fairy. I’m still puzzling what to make of the Hook and Tink scenes. Tink’s interest in his love life may not be just about her “professional concern” as a fairy as with Regin. She didn’t react quite the same to Regina as she did to Hook. Since we’re getting a story that “it is not easy being Green”–it could be one about WWW and Tink both, in that they are both envious in some way and it could lead Tink to betray our friends. This is traditional in the PP story as well, for Tink to sell out Wendy to hurt Peter for preferring her. In this case? Tink could try to sell out Emma to WWW to get back at Hook. This is why Blue said Fairies shouldn’t fall in love. Now in the play, Tink regrets her actions and swaps back to helping the good guys. Perhaps she does when she realizes that Emma doesn’t want Hook at all, but wants Neal, and tries to fix her mistake, only to have Hook sacrifice himself to save Tink, saying he loves Tink after all, he just never realized it until then having taken her for granted all those years they were together in NL.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I guess I don’t feel like the EF is going to be their home in the end. I feel it is going to be SB somehow. That town just keeps coming on back and it is kind of a character in itself. It is also what makes this story feel so unique. If they end in the EF it feels like it just loses some of the “modern spin” aspect of it.
I like the idea of everyone sort of choosing to settle into SB as a permanent bubble town with new stories waiting to unfold for them at the very end.
I do think they’ll “go to Oz” at the end of S4 but they want to have time back in SB for a bit. I’m not sure they’ll do the trip to Oz like the trip to NL where only some characters go but it might be more of a flashback thing as more things happen in present day SB. I’m not sure really.
I’m not sure the writers are sure even. If they don’t have permanent word yet of 2 more seasons then they probably are going a bit cautiously. Writers will sometimes have back-up plans in mind so that if it is the end of the (yellow brick) road, they can wind it up–or sometimes they take a gamble and it ends on a total cliffhanger to the frustration of fans for ever more.
So one possible title could be “End of the Yellow Brick Road”
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I was looking up some random things about Oz to speculate some titles and came across this.
“In the novel “The Number of the Beast” by Robert Heinlein, Glinda the Good Witch reminds two pregnant women that nobody gives birth in Oz.” It was on a LOSTpedia site for references in that show.
We happen to have two pregnant women now, Aurora and Snow, and a “Beast”…..odd. Don’t think it means something in particular but it was funny.
I think speculation for 3×19 is like the other ones too —
Off to see the wizard
Over the Rainbow
Emerald City (agree with RG)
Flying Monkeys
Not in Kansas (or just Kansas)
Twister (especially if there is a big didn’t-see-that-coming twist of fate).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
[Spoiler]Hm there is that, but I feel like Kansas has to come into play sometime. August’s bike had Kansas plates and everyone associates Oz with it. There could be fictional Kansas too I suppose. I wonder where in the world did Bae enter back into “the Land without Magic”. He started in London, so what if he popped in Kansas? And Greg says “It’s happened before”–that Regina’s town wasn’t the first time magic had invaded. Now it’s true, Pan was out there working his little schemes, but it is possible that he tapped into an organization started by Dorothy and corrupted her agents, rather than creating his whole organization from scratch. So it would be much the idea we had about Wendy having started something, but with Dorothy instead. I’m still working out though what possible connection Rapuznel could have to Gorham’s character. And of course, where does Neal fit into things? [/spoiler]
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Why stage the funeral though? Plus Gorham appears to get to SB at the confrontation. I think SB may be recreated in Kansas. We assume it is back in Maine but maybe not and the Gale Farm is now inside the borders. The WWW wanted to get to Dorothy (who took the slippers). Maybe the foster brother idea is partly true, in that the Gales are the Swans. If Dorothy married her last name would be different. The Swans gave Emma back when they realized she had magic, fearing it might trigger a way for the WWW to get to them all. Maybe Emma doesn’t know Gorham’s character “Henry Swan” really but just after Hook tries to get to her, the Swans are trapped in a bubble town except for Henry who’d moved to NY. I am not sure where Neal fits into this though! That’s the problem. They’ve given us so little information about Neal, plus so little has been sighted about him we are not given much to craft an idea of where he is that isn’t unspeakable. What if he’s in Oz though? If he did escape through Oz from NL, maybe Glinda will have something to do with him getting to our world. Maybe the WWW trades places with him using the Dagger to cross worlds so he’s in OZ and she’s in the EF to cast her curse?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I tweeted him “That election was a sham!”
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
