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“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
If flashbacks it totally would make sense that at one point we saw Very Pregnant Snow, and maybe Charming heard of something that might help beat the curse so he rode out to a tower to get a magical thing that turned out to be a person, this young girl with magic hair.
So then they couldn’ t use the “thing” the way they’d hoped to block the curse because they wouldn’t kill her and that parallel some other thing happening present day?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Yes for happy things! Well not “Happy”–poor Michael Coleman. He stepped in it. He could have had the best line — “Hey I just ship everyone with Happy-ness.”
Adam has gotten better but for awhile he did answer in a way that made it obvious he was trying to encourage fans to think there was a chance they’d see the couples they were asking about. He should not do that, no spoilers should not mean allowing fans to be confused about the intent of a scene. We love the passion but here is our intent here in this scene. Hope you enjoy what else we have planned.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Theadorothy?
I think Theodora and Dorothy mash could work.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I had that sense too, did Blue use a pronoun for the Black fairy as in “her”–could the Black fairy be the shadow in exile?
Sorry if brought up before did not see whole thread. Maybe NL is where exiled fairies just go.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
If she is not Cruella, the Cruella is her and Regina’s fashion designer.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Phee & RG– YES!
8:15 is a curse thing more than strictly a romantic thing in my opinion. In the comfort of a ship thread, it is fun to say “Hey there’s this theme weaving this family together” but in terms of “this is proof of the future intent of the writers?”–no, too thin to say x = y that way.
So it means little either way that it is 8:15 when Emma wakes, but it is sometime later Hook knocks. Who knows, I don’t remember the clock showing us a new time for a new curse, like 8:20. That could for all we know become a new thematic element that the old curse was 8:15 and connected her to Neal, and the new one is 8:30 and connects her to Hook–but if that means anything or not is hard to judge as August also had a scene of waking at 8:15 originally. Hook may be the new “August” in some ways. The fairytale character who has a duty to help her.
The question about Neal and Rumple’s lack of screen-time to discuss is similar to that with Belle. The writers could give us scenes but they don’t. One thing I feel is important is Neal forgives Rumple without even having the knowledge the audience did that Malcolm traumatized Rumple with a bean portal incident. Do I wish they talked about it on screen? A hundred times yes–the same way I wish Belle reacted to a lot more things on screen, especially Milah’s death. In this one case though, it makes Neal forgiving Rumple all the more wonderful. He doesn’t need that additional bit of sympathy to connect with his father and let down the wall between them.
MRJ’s brief smile at Rumple’s death is something I feel could be misinterpreted as being happy Rumple died as opposed to pride that Rumple did what he had to do and sacrificed himself to save them. That is the good man he remembered, and sad as he is, he is glad to see he wasn’t wrong that his father still had this in him. That his father beat his curse.
This problem happens with Hook as well, in that, we are supposed to interpret looks and a scant line of dialog here and there to understand what he’s thinking sometimes. I would much rather have seen Hook and Neal have a much larger discussion about Milah, about what happened between them in the past, about Tamara (because Hook did work with her, and knew she was playing Neal, who he later claimed as a friend). I still don’t understand Hook claiming Neal as a friend. Is that an exaggeration or euphemism for “my dead lover’s son who I felt a fondness for on some level but in the end, when he didn’t accept me, probably because I omitted to tell him I knew who he was, I traded him off to Pan, LOLs” ? How do you even term that connection? If more happened on NL between them, that would put Hook in a better light. Why didn’t we see THAT to set up Hook being a hero instead of “here’s Liam..” and I think it was RG , but I forget who said “here’s how far Jones brothers go to prove a point”.
My headcannon was that Hook tried to rescue Bae from Pan, but we never saw that. Not that he would have accomplished that goal per se, but maybe he took “that last job” of killing Rumple as his price, but also Bae’s, off the island. It just would have explained so much and set up such rich tension and tragedy to Hook falling for the same lady that Neal desperately wants to have a second chance to repair a relationship damaged in part, because of an out-of-the-ordinary circumstance. It would make me feel better that Hook’s not sinister in saying the things he is–but I cannot look back at S2 Hook’s actions and NOT wonder and question his motives. I understand the shippy spin people put on things he did, but it feels like shippy spin, not a real explanation that holds water for all things to change my opinion of his basic character as someone who will put on an act to get what he wants. That makes me worry about him with Emma, but at the same time, that doesn’t lesson the sincerity, intensity and passion or love he might have for her. If it doesn’t bother her, well it shouldn’t still bother me as long as it is written as something she sees, and discourages, the way Belle knows Rumple’s not Mr. Sunshine above-board with people.
Neal comes across as more of an impulsive, sometimes thoughtless but not in the mean way, more of a didn’t-think-it-through way. He’s flown by the seat of his pants (hah literally with the Shadow!) since 14. He isn’t refined. He isn’t cultured. He tries to do the right thing though, but he doesn’t always get good results.
I really believe Wendy ending up imprisoned in NL for hundreds of years because she tried to save Bae is something the writers put in there with a knowing wink to how Emma tried to save Neal but ended up in jail for it too. I don’t think Neal, much as he feels horrible, perhaps even on some level responsible for Wendy having that happen, feels personally at fault as in a normal causal sense. He didn’t WANT that to happen to Wendy, in fact, he wanted the exact opposite. We should have had a conversation about it between Wendy and Neal, with Emma overhearing it perhaps.
Or later on maybe, and it could have lead into Neal explaining what exactly led to how Emma ended up in jail, and why when he found out he chose to do what he did and why he felt or didn’t feel whatever he did.
We all end up making assumptions based off so very few scenes. Some say his expressions are just guilt and trying to ease his conscience in that scene with August in Vancouver. I feel Neal is giving up everything he has, begging August to look out for Emma because as long as he must steer clear due to magical curse reasons, he wants to do whatever he can do. If it were up to him, HE would have gone to jail basically and I bet he would have stayed in Wendy’s cage if it meant she would be free and at home with her brothers. Yet people read it the other way around, because some have this narrative in their heads that he’s this awful, cowardly, user and abuser of a guy who makes women suffer so he can scoot away care free.
When Wendy talks to Neal, he’s touched that she cared about him that much–not happy she’s suffered. How I would have loved the dialog when the Darlings reunited if they’d asked Neal to come with them, home to London. For him to say something like they’ll still always be part of his family but he has to stay there in SB–or something.
I would prefer instead of magical separation that Belle held Rumple’s feet to the fire about things like what he did when she was Lacey, or the Milah thing, or the Tamara moment–but the problem is things do get swept under a rug. We know they filmed a scene of Emma confronting Regina about Graham, but cut it.
So it is not just Neal that gets the character development short-end of the stick–and it definitely applies to people failing to react to things Hook did. Instead of seeing Regina confront Hook in anyway now that they’re back, we get a plot coupon of “I haven’t forgotten”–maybe we get to spend it on a reduced scene down the road, but it will more likely be done off-screen.
The writers over-all have been skipping over things because ACTION! FIGHTING! MAGIC! They may loop around back eventually but at this point even as we see their careful plotting in some moments, we also see their lack of foresight in others. Seriously, the scene with Henry and Snow/MM couldn’t have been filmed years earlier? She looks a bit different than S1 Snow, more tired and Henry looks older in an obvious way. If things were so meticulously planned, that would have been in the can filmed already. It wasn’t even much of a spoiler. The book spontaneously appeared in her closet.
The original Rumple father scene as well, didn’t the father die? No doubt the writers put little breadcrumbs but they also drop whole loaves sometimes and that’s disconcerting. Hello Black Fairy, why have we never heard of you until now when your wand is conveniently powerful enough to swap bodies around!
At least we’ve had a few conversations about Neal needing to make things up to Emma. Snow’s said something like “Whatever this man did” to suggest she knew there’s something that motivates Emma to feel so emotional and panicked at seeing Neal again. She may not know the entire story, but then neither does Emma that we saw onscreen. Emma knows enough to know Neal wasn’t making up the stuff about fate and destiny now though. If she wasn’t sure whether he believed it before, she probably is now.
That makes it in some ways even scarier. If he left because he didn’t love her, that’s something she thought for years and in many ways came to terms with and tried to move on. Finding out he did, then thinking he was dead, then realizing he was alive, and he was played by a woman working for a super-villain who kidnapped her son? This is astounding. Then to find out he is related to this super-villain but never even knew it? His life is so much more awful than hers and he tried to escape it, and this curse of magic reached out and sucked him back in. She thought there was nothing worse than growing up thinking you weren’t wanted–but now, well, having family that did want you but couldn’t because of scheming crazy sinister plans hatched by the likes of Peter Pan is worse.
Yes, I want more about and from Neal–but he is a supporting character. What conclusions we draw about what that means in shippy terms–well obviously, some are going to say that means he’s an obstacle not the goal. I’ve said my opinion on it is the writers think of Belle, Henry and Neal differently than the other characters as we saw with the way the posters were released. I’d term them “love maguffins”. They’re the modern spin on damsels in distress. The reason the characters, villains and heroes, do what they do, and while characters in their own right too, a huge part of their purpose in the story is for others to act or react due to them, to be villainous or heroic as the case may be.
That’s not to say Belle, Neal or Henry do not get heroic moments, as they do but they sure do need to be rescued a fair amount. Neal as a male character in a LT comes off a bit worse therefore due to cultural norms of Alpha males–same thing I know Josh Hutcherson’s talked about with playing Peeta in the Hunger Games. Katniss is the hero, and its not really about a love triangle, anyway but the themes of fighting this corrupt society in which she exists. Emma’s struggles shouldn’t be reduced to this shippy part of it, nor should Neal’s character be reduced to it but sometimes it feels like that’s all the writers have left. On the back half, I hope they’ll step away from the more maudlin LT soap opera plot devices (triangles, memory wipes…) that ruin character development, though I don’t expect them to give up fairy-tale plot devices of magical items and quests (because they aren’t giving up those anytime soon, the real meaning behind Blue Fairy not dying).
They don’t have to be totally realistic and probably shouldn’t–just less inconsistent.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
RG and all others who have had bad relationships–hugs and cookies for that.
Emma Swan feels your pain. Aside from Neal, that was what she was used to experiencing. Guys who probably wanted to use her or who she wanted to use–but where her heart remained safe from anything scary or real, just fun.
I wonder what this memory-changed Emma will feel and be like. I wonder if and when the curse breaks if she will rethink whether leaving Henry really was the best shot years ago. I think though she will realize that hindsight, especially magical best case scenario you can imagine hindsight, is not a good measure. Things don’t always go the best way possible and if you love someone you cannot take that risk sometimes if the danger outweighs the good. It might give her fresh insight on Neal leaving her.
Fighting for love, while a nice theme needs to compliment the other ones of sacrifice and love being strength and a source of hope. I know that Emma needed to hear what Neal said when they said goodbye. He has this season expressed that he would fight for her, that he would sacrifice for her, he has stayed strong for her, and finally we end the half-finale that he has hope they will see each other again.
I need a gifset of these moments. The fighting is obvious, the sacrifice I think is during the shadow thing in Dark Hollow, strength is when he listened to her confession and bear hugged her despite how much her words hurt to hear, because of how much it hurt her to say, and hope in the finale. Maybe there are better ones to use.
The theme that happy endings aren’t always what we expect, well that is something that could go just about any which way. Hook definitely seemed to have decided that his lies with Emma, but Neal said outright that he thought Neal and Emma were all he had.
Yes, to those spoiler thoughts. I do hope we get some bonding when they hit the EF, but I think we’ll go right to tons of action. What I am kind of wondering is, if the whole “Neal sent Emma to jail is to be addressed–might there be some black fairy connection here, as we never found out what “little fairy” told August those things we don’t know how he knew. What if Neal did go through another world like Oz, and part of what had him on the run, what motivated him to “steer clear” was some danger from that?
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Good question Happy Endings.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
If they go back to the season 1–careful of your deals, ouch could see that Watcher for brightest fellow.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
