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I just need to leave this here:

This is part of why I hate the triangle so much.  Neal is a character who HAS a storyline–his father just died, he recently became a father and is losing his son just weeks after finding him.  He isn’t given enough screentime, nor is Belle, and a large part of why (I think) is the time devoted to building up Hook for the obvious fan-girl contingent /eye-candy factor.

Hook does have  more depth than that, absolutely,  but a lot has been stripped away and it makes the character less interesting  than as a complicated villain who longs to be a hero but doesn’t quite know how to get there because he just can’t help himself.   That’s more in line with the original Hook, in the play but in the Disney version he’s just comic relief, the antagonist but a buffoon a bit.  There are these elements to Hook still, the whole Captain Floor thing, the insulting of his lackey Smee, and other odd moments with Tink–but overall these are downplayed a lot..but only if Emma is in the scene, Unless Regina or Rumple are in it  too.  I’m sure there are exceptions–but mostly in S2.   In S3 I feel that pattern has been pretty consistent .

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Overall I felt disappointed by this episode because I felt that things could be written better.

Likes-

Regina remembering the cuff, but most of all Regina giving the gift to Emma.  Regina’s character has grown, but not changed so much that it felt like a rewrite or retcon both in terms of what she says or how others react to her.  Unlike with some others but her cuff comment gives me hope the writers will address certain things.

Rumple choosing not to cut off his hand to use magic.  He found strength in Bae and Belle’s love enough to do what needed to be done.

The way Neal had a moment of pride that the good man in his father won out over the curse, mixed in his grief  that froze him for a moment longer than the others, and choked back the tears. 

Source

Neal saying he will see Emma and Henry again, expressing hope, despite the raw hopeless panic on Emma’s face at losing her family.

Seeing Emma and Henry having cocoa in the apartment.  A year of day offs for Emma.

Tink getting a moment to shine.

 

Dislikes:

The flashbacks.  The “skindeep” one would have preferred a scene in present day, and the NL one made no sense since it sounded like Hook just told Smee about the dagger, but Tink was newly arrived on NL even though she got there after meeting newly married Regina.  Why waste time on Smee?

Sneaky Fairy pops up conveniently again–with plot contrived wand number two–the Black wand.

Pan’s cruel words to Rumple–yet another person who tells Rumple he never loved him rather than that he stopped, even though it seemed like he just did not love him well enough earlier.That no one comforted or seemed to notice Belle–her complete breakdown made sense and provided a contrast to Neal’s shutdown, but of the two you would think the other actors (like fans) would  look at the person on the ground, versus the one standing.  Emma looks over at Neal to acknowledge what others might miss, and makes sense Neal doesn’t notice Belle in his battle with his own emotions.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I’d like to think that’s how it goes down Slurpeez.  We just never know!  We have no idea what Emma believes her life has been like other than she is living in NY, still wearing the ring pendant, presumably has a bug for a car, and calls Henry kid.

About Neal being in the FTL with Belle and the Charmings–

I kind of feel like Neal is a bit like Stitch.  Not in the mischief making reformed evil way, but in the “really just wants a family to love him”.   MRJ even has “Ohana” tattoo apparently.

I want to see why Emma doesn’t love Neal if that is how she feels, but I do think she kept the bug out of love, and the pendant.  I think she’s said she knew the instant she saw him again that she still loved him.  People want to pretend she was “fine” but that was her trying to cope with the heartbreak, the same way he tried to cope with it.  They didn’t WANT to part, because their relationship was wonderful.  He was not abusive, he didn’t undermine her or tear her down.  If anything, he believed in her so completely that he let her risk herself for him, even though he’s the one who feels like he has to pay for his own mistakes.    He just wanted to be with her so badly, that even though he knew the “steal the watches ” plan was a bad idea, and risky, he went for it.

We’ll never know what he was going to say to her about Canada, whether he really meant that he was breaking up with her or rather–he had to cross alone.  The way he gets interrupted with her plan, and the fact he agrees to it, with such relief, it seems to me he wasn’t planning on breaking up with her but even parting from her for long enough to avoid risking her getting picked up as his accomplice stressed him out.  That’s why he talked about how hard it is to cross.  Plus, he probably didn’t even necessarily have a US passport, considering well–we don’t even know how he got to this world.

I hope they get another shot at that conversation in Manhattan–in a weird way, August stole the better Rumple-son reunion speech I think.  So perhaps the writers owe Neal the chance to at least have one talk go right with someone he cares about, without further misunderstandings creeping into it because of anger and fear about the righteous anger.

Neal would be calmer this time without the guilt about Tamara, with the knowledge that Emma loves him and will probably always love him.  He’d be able to explain–and exposition means we don’t have to worry about seeing August.

They’ve been so underwhelming with reveals, I hope I’m right that it is as simple as blood magic meant Pan could track Neal and he had to leave.  He couldn’t even go back to Emma lest Pan would know where she was and that August tracked him the same way as Pan might.  We never did find out which “little fairy” told August–what if it was the mysteriously name dropped Black Fairy who was exiled somewhere.

Since they didn’t tie that backstory into Pan and the Darlings it would feel anti-climactic to get into it now, unless there’s even more to the tale.   I just hope there’s a good fairytale reason that Neal had to leave and not go back, not contact her, something to explain the “if I can’t be there, you have to promise you will be.” Neal thought he couldn’t stay–not that he could and was chosing to go out of fear.  So I want to know what August said that made him think he had to “promise to steer clear”.  In hindsight, Neal might still kick himself for listening and not taking the risk–but perhaps it was a wise risk not to take.

If it helps us get some mythology reveal on the black fairy too–that could be really cool and not just something we shippers agonize over but everyone else is like “really, does it matter?”

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I assumed the false memories would start with Henry, that moment she gave him up–but we have no idea what else is changed or not.

Perhaps her false memory is that Neal sent her the 20k as he intended (but that August stole) so that’s how she managed with baby Henry years ago–or even that she wasn’t in jail (the second time did we see the handcuffs?), and the father was a fireman she met working at a diner as she had lied to Henry back in True North in season 1.

At some point, she will recover all her memories and these false ones will integrate in.  I love the idea that her moments with Henry are really Regina’s memories with Henry reconfigured.  I assume the magic just had a way of filling in the details that would be necessary for the desired effect to occur.

 

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Yes to character development–the pain is worth it if we get to see Neal connect to these others.

We know they will spend time on RH and Wicked, then Rapunzel, New Guy.  Though  I read a spoiler that Ausiello had said a new actor servant with french accent is being hired–could be Lumiere and Belle story maybe?   I don’t know how much room to get more tiny moments to tide us over versus just feeling like the writers are changing gears.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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So he is not a real person at all?  Or is he someone who’s memories were fogged by Regina’s curse out in the real world, obviously her magic could make fake paper trails.   But why him if he is real?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Here is my crack theory to make you laugh if you didn’t see it in Slurpeez’s thread   What if he is a “reborn” rumple–made himself extra tall and he’s not really THERE, it’s actually magic due to the scroll and Rumple is trapped inside the scroll.  The head kiss was fatherly perhaps?  No, I don’t really think that.  Though I like the fosterbrother named Henry idea the problem with that–Regina didn’t fog the memories of the entire world did she?  So whoever this guy is, either he was really in Emma’s past, or he is someone she meets upon arriving in NY from Maine, with the idea she just moved from some random small town in Maine where she and Henry spent his first 10 years, until she moved to Ny for some unspecified reason.   I am ok with another love interest, because really, I think what Emma has with Neal is unique and it would be highlighted by contrasting all fantasy (Hook) with all realistic (random guy) and then the one who has both (realistic fantasy). Or that’s how I see it. 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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rumple rules? what if…he’s a reborn Rumple, ack….he certainly made himself tall!

(Gorham is like 6 + I think)

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Hi everyone! I’m new! Been lurking for a few weeks actually, but have a hole in my heart after “Going Home” that I just had to come out of hiding and commiserate with other SFers. Please forgive me if I bring up things that have already been discussed. I’ve tried to catch up on the last dozen pages or so, but there’s just so much to talk about! 

Welcome and *cookies*.  Never fear bringing something up –we’re pretty circular as we swoop around on the same set of scenes to discuss, and every once in awhile there’s a new thing to get all excited about fan art, or video or picture, but we all just repeat ourselves a lot because “feels and reasons” as it gets put succinctly on Tumblr. 🙂

On something that Phee was saying a few pages ago, it’s my hope that over the last year Hook and Neal have come to at least some sort of understanding, if not actual friendship. 

I would love that.  It feels like SUCH a waste to create this dramatic back-story between them, then downplay it SO much that we don’t even ever see on screen any sort of discussion that they HAVE history together beyond Emma .

I hope Neal sort of couldn’t go, rather than is written as being “too scared” or “not interested” enough to go.  Perhaps as the person the curse was written to find, it was Rumple’s plan to force him to return home and that part of the magic is in play and he had no choice and actually CANNOT leave after the reverse curse spell is applied by Regina.  That would be some bittersweet thing to play out too, because in large part, Neal and Rumple did reconcile but a lot of Rumple’s “deals” and prior choices, are still playing out in the aftermath of what he did.

I like the tension they could have written with Hook, Neal and Rumple–if Hook actually went back for Bae in NL and spent centuries trying to rescue him, and actually agreed to hunt Rumple in a deal to set Bae free.  They COULD have created something like that, which would in large part created a  very conflicted and heroic feel for Hook versus showing us this “well he wasn’t always a pirate, but he was a hard-line naval taskmaster, who lost hope and threw it all a way in a fit of rage” didn’t quite do.”  Hook being motivated not just for revenge, but also because he has no choice or the boy he loved as a son would be (he thinks) recaptured by a demon, now THAT is some serious counter-foil to Rumple.  It would also have helped to sell me on the idea that Hook thinks it is tragic that he feels romantically inclined to the same woman as Neal.  Right now that doesn’t come across very strongly or if at all.

Also, I really really wish that before E&H had driven off across the town line Neal had gone over to the bug and at least touched it or something. Like a moment of remembrance of what it meant and everything that was being lost at that moment. Though if that had happened I probably would have sobbed.

My headcannon is he saw it finally, that gave him hope that he gave to Emma.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I’m not sure where you “found” this particular observation set Happy Endings, but there is a set of pictures showing Emma having parallel clothing to Neal.  I never linked it because it seemed overly shippy to me too, just like these observations.  I’ve also seen some people who draw comparison to Regina’s clothing–but how much is intentional versus unintentional or just done for a different purpose than the ones fans might prefer?

The writers have said that Emma in a tank top is “action” oriented.  The actress said her jacket is like armor.  Sometimes she’s just cold!  I do think they use colors at times, obviously to represent a mood or a stance, so there are times we can draw conclusions of some kind.

For instance, the shoelace on Emma’s wrist the actress said is a memorial to Graham, and the writers confirmed it.  Personally my favorite of her wardrobe for comedy is the cloche hat she and Snow wore–mommy and me day!

 

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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