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I agree Slurpeez. I viewed NL as a bit of a “pause button” on life. You have no future there, they say, so you face your past and revisit it. So I feel Hook going there kept Milah alive in his mind, the thirst for revenge growing stronger rather than fading and him moving on. I have no idea what experiences he had with Tink previously, but he likely was not emotionally ready for anything, but when he met Emma he wasn’t either. She alone was not enough because A&E said on the podcast that the moment Hook starts to put revenge behind him is when he sees Rumple with Lacey in their drunken stroll. He’s finally had a taste of it, and while he says he’s sated, ultimately, he realizes that Rumple’s sort of won by moving on and his life is empty. Yet he doesn’t give GOAT the slip and go court Emma, nope, he’s still trying to get revenge and to that end, he goes after Regina. Who knows if he would have swapped to her team and let everyone die if she didn’t double-cross him, but she did. So then he finally gets around to Emma when he’s got a choice between returning to the FTL wasteland alone or who knows where else or what other worlds, or going back to save everyone, maybe to honor Bae, maybe because of Emma’s words. The writing this season then showed his new goal to be relentless about was his own happy ending, which he defined as winning Emma, trying to reposition himself as a man of honor in her eyes. So Hook has to be shown as redefining happiness again, perhaps realizing Emma doesn’t love him? She hasn’t said she does, nor been all that encouraging. He seems to enjoy the chase, but if his goal is to have someone that cares for him, perhaps he might consider charting a new course to someone more receptive. We’ve seen him make some big sweeps in his life goals and attitudes and loyalties given the right circumstances, so I feel it is not out of character entirely. Neal on the other hand, well, it took him 10 years or so to meet Tamara after Emma, and Tamara wasn’t an ordinary sort of woman, but one pretending to be the perfect girlfriend who preyed on his insecurities (probably secretly fed info from Pan, who knows). The point is, I don’t see Neal falling for someone else the way he did Emma and neither does MRJ so it would require a lot of explanation as to how or why Neal would just suddenly swap out Emma for Tink, having just had this second chance at life realization that Emma is the one he loves. Why show us that Neal loves Emma with enough substance to it to use a magic crystal ball to find her through that feeling, only to say Hah hah, actually he was just infatuated with her and just cares about her a lot? Makes more sense for that to be Hook’s level of interest given he’s spent less time over all with and thinking about Emma. Yet it is the writer’s show–so as I say almost anything can make sense given enough new events or revealed past events. If it is that Bae fell for Tink as a 14 year old boy and she’s been his crush since then and whatever–it just would feel like whiplash to me a bit more so than Hook who’s come off as less-than-genuine to me about his pursuit of Emma.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
The writers shoe-horn things in all the time, just like the plot devicey cabinet of convenient magic and the previously-unknown-shadow-express, plus Mermaid Delivery services, remembering potions, magic-stealing tasers and cuffs. I’m glad they brought back the cuff but on the whole, they don’t always get around to revisiting these one-off plot device things and they seem all the more one-off and silly.
We have to suspend a lot of disbelief, and perhaps in the whole context of the scene it makes sense, since we’ve seen Regina alter the curse for specific people while the current curse was technically “broken”– that is Lacey. So I wonder if it is she can prevent the new curse by doing something as the current “owner” of the scroll, until the new curse takes effect?
Maybe we’re on to something that Pan will think Felix’s heart will do the trick but it won’t, and Pan will realize he has to kill Rumple for his heart. By the time it goes down though, their plan to stop the curse won’t work, so all Regina can do is alter it a little. What I don’t quite know is where the WWW comes in here, and I guess that’s what we have to wait to see! What if SHE is the one that originally wrote the curse and altering it the way Regina does summons her, but therefore also allows it to be broken. The bad news is, that means the WWW is there.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Parallels are comparisons, and like any comparison only as good as the thought process behind it. You can make analogies between, well, anything but that two things are alike in some qualities doesn’t mean they’re the same in every quality.
How would anyone really know what most SFers ship in WL? I happen to like Cylice, but I don’t really feel Will and Ana. The few SF tumblr blogs I see do not really talk about either.
I also thought of Neal and Emma with the sacrifice line, but in the end, there are elements we can draw comparisons to on that part for both ships if we wanted to be fair about it as we were supposed to try to be on CSF. The writers tried hard from the end of last season to please fans clamoring for CS by writing things in that allowed Emma to get to an emotional place of developing feelings for Hook. Some still believe Emma instantly had feelings, love at first sight, but I think Emma just noticed an attractive man, noticing her. Given her lonely life, that’s hard to resist, because Hook’s brand of connecting with people is that he uses half-truths, things he overhears and his ability at reading people to try to say what they want to hear. Exhibit A–how he spoke to Belle in the tower. Exhibit B–how he spoke to Regina in the mines. Exhibit C–how he spoke to Bae on his ship. Sometimes people realize he’s manipulating them, and call him on it. Sometimes they connect with the real desire he has to be liked, and are charmed by him to some degree.
I think the writers are going for making both Hook and Neal as “viable” candidates this season, but this last moment with Hook and Tink really veered from the theme in a big way. Maybe that’s just setting up “trouble” for a reversal where Emma’s jealousy leads her to realize she’s fallen for Hook and that’s how we go out on the break. Or it sets her up to realize that despite Hook seeming genuine, perhaps even being genuine on one-level, that in other ways, he was still a bit calculating in how he presented himself to her, but it doesn’t even matter because her heart is still with Neal and always will be. We’ll just have to see.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Happy Birthday Heather!
I virtually send you this cake (but imagine your name on it 🙂 from a talented pastry chef. Sue’s Cakes
I wish I could do things like this:
Anyway I also wanted to say Thanks to Rumples GoldFan for the kind words about the poster.
I’m still a little miffed at the way the media department handled the Poster slogan, not just for SF–but all fans of the show. Love or hate Neal, he’s a character on the show, and telling us he has no poster for so long (basically implying it was just the one without words), and when someone asks they imply one thing, then flip-flop the other way it just comes off well…sneaky.
Ok back to real shippy thoughts here, so fair warning to any row-boaters dipping a toe on this side:Around this time of year people love….love. The big holiday classic movies, or even modern things like Love Actually, or just look at the Hallmark Channel. The show reunited the big canon couples. It gave Ariel her second chance. There are some bittersweet moments, with Mulan keeping her honor, and Hook perhaps trying to do the same thing. I say perhaps because that Tink moment was really a shocker in terms of the “Hero Hook, romantic, devoted, only has eyes for one woman at a time pirate” story. Yet to look at it generously he was sad, but so was Neal. Yet the key is back to Emma. Does she want that second chance with Neal? Does the audience want to see it? Obviously some do not. Some want Emma alone, some with Regina, some with Graham, many with Hook–but what do characters in the show want? They like Neal enough to think Emma ought to give herself and him another chance. It is not about keeping her from something she thinks makes her happy but they think (mistakenly from Emma’s POV ) is bad. It is about encouraging her with a push yes, the way a parent pushes on a bike ride. Where the child steers is up to the child, but the parent has to get the child moving and past the fear of falling. That is what I think the Charmings were saying, and if they pointed her down a path they thought looked safe, that’s because they love her, because what parent is going to push a child towards something they think would lead to heartbreak and pain? Even if my child “can handle it” to steer into traffic–somehow escape collision, why would I want that? There comes a point where you have to let go to let a child have freedom. The Charmings know Emma’s 29. They aren’t going to put their foot down, or try to manipulate her to the guy THEY like best. They are going to tell her she shouldn’t be afraid to figure it out for herself, but one part in it should be honesty about their opinions too. That’s what Charming did. He didn’t tell her Neal was her Happy Ending or even a happy moment, but obviously he liked him enough to suggest Emma go. He likes Hook enough now not to outright warn Emma away from him (as he would have earlier in the season possibly).
So Emma, on her way to see Neal gets sidetracked by Pan and realizes she cannot think about romance. She doesn’t get to date. So Neal doesn’t get the second chance that Emma may have been about to give him. On the other hand, there’s Hook, pining away, thinking all’s lost, hinting that perhaps he would have been up to something with Tink (despite knowing Tink considered it beneath her dignity, and not caring at all what or how it made Tink feel to hear him imply something to Emma). This isn’t about Hook sussing out Emma’s emotions and whether she was jealous–it is about Hook being a jerk to Tink. Who roots for the jerk, even if we think the jerk has reasons? Last season people said Neal was a jerk to Emma. That his reasons for defending Tamara, for not dumping her instantly the moment Emma came into his life didn’t matter. Now we see what a real jerk is like. A guy who doesn’t care about another woman’s feelings, so long as he “wins” the one he wants. That’s not what Neal did with Tamara. Every thing he said wrong , or that Emma received wrong, he did apologize. He didn’t think sometimes, but he wasn’t OUT to hurt her, to play games, to make her jealous by pretending things he didn’t feel for Tamara. That’s why it is actually good for SF that Neal was genuine about thinking Tamara was someone he might want to marry. None of those thing Neal did were from a place of manipulation. The moment Neal saw Emma she made sure in Manhattan that he knew she was over him. That she was not a choice for him. The tragedy of it, that Emma realized later–they both till carried their love but deeply buried under all the pain and hurt, and fear of rejection. So neither were at their best, but really under the circumstances it could have been much more bitter and hateful, but they were able to keep talking and relate to each other.Hook on the other hand? Half-truths and mind-games are how he’s generally operated. He’s a pirate. He told Aurora that he hated being double-crossed, implying he was helping her to gain revenge on Cora. Thing is, Cora didn’t double-cross him ( at that point). Emma did. Emma is the one Hook wanted revenge on, and he wanted it so badly he didn’t care about risking his life to “choose” Cora’s team. He stayed on Cora’s team all the way through the portal, right after Emma saved his life, because he told her NOTHING about the “things” on the ship. Snow and Charming had to drag him down there, which led to the events with Anton. Who knows what Hook knew or didn’t, about the things specifically but he knew Cora’s agenda involved turning Regina, and possibly he knew more. He kept Cora’s card. She didn’t just come find him, he called her. He stayed on her side, because that meant revenge, and he trusted her to be able to help him.
He kept up with that until Cora finally did double-cross him. She still didn’t kill him though (plot armor….) but that aside, Hook had eyes on revenge until that moment he needed to risk his life to get it, after already tasting how empty it felt when he thought he had it. He doesn’t storm in and say he cannot risk Emma’s life. He doesn’t say he’s feeling in turmoil as Bae’s dead, and he could have stopped it. Whatever these other emotional layers–they aren’t on screen for the average viewer. It is not in his dialog. So inferences are spaces where viewers can and will bring different takes.What is on screen is that Neal is a man who owns his mistakes, even if he makes a few. That he wants to be with Emma but doesn’t want to push it on her. That she loves him, and he loves her.So with ALL of that –I just have a hard time seeing how the “happy ending” we’d be rooting for here is for the Pirate to “win” HIS idea of a happy ending without Emma confessing she’s totally lost her heart to him after one kiss the way he seemed to be claiming he felt. This is not just a movie that started this season. Yet if it were? The obvious ending to me would be to see that Emma and Neal finally are ready to try –just before being ripped apart but at least this time, they know they will find their way home to each other (and Henry, and rest of the family) no matter what.“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Exactly–there was a line in LOST–you come into a man’s home, don’t you expect him to defend himself or something like that. Especially if the JR just slammed into a pack (school?) of mermaids and hit some of them. Why is there a general sense that mermaids cannot be trusted? Hook,Rumple, and Regina echo that but Regina makes an exception for Ariel.
Also plot armor for Ariel–why didn’t Regina kill Ariel? For game players out there, is concentration like a resource bar so she had only enough enough power to attack Snow until she regenerated more? Was her neck snap on cooldown?
Something obviously not true for Regina….couldn’t find a funnier picture but I know they are out there…they just seem to involve profanity…“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I felt it was implied her home was NL unless that seashell trick has long distance! With magic, who knows.
Whatever serves the plot but if it is NL–why is she a different type of mermaid? Does she know that Regina turned another mermaid into Wood (and can they animate that mermaid, de-age her and set her up with August….just kidding…but wooden mermaid, come on…). Perhaps Ariel didn’t get along with the others and wasn’t part of their mermaid society. (They used to laugh and call her names…Ariel the red haired mermaid…you’ll go down in history….).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I agree. I won’t expect too much, but it feels like the second chance they set up is with Emma and Neal–but who knows. In a weird way the way they downplayed it makes me think it all the more.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Keb –I agree–let’s be clear, up until the moment she ran into “Gold’s son”, Emma herself thought she didn’t want to see Neal based on what she thought were the reasons he’d left. Neal knew how it looked to her and was right about how she felt. If he had gone after her, if he had been willing to face his fears of rejection, it is quite possible she just wouldn’t have been able to let down her guard and really believe the story he was telling her–because who knows how in magic-fueled SB that would have played out between Rumple and Regina.
In an odd way, his being with Tamara allowed her to slowly believe him as he wasn’t just saying what she wanted to hear to get back in her good graces. He wasn’t just trying to be around her for Henry’s sake either. So everything he was saying, from his point of view, were things he was saying because they were true, because he had to say them, even though he knew it changed nothing romantically between them. No, he wasn’t “choosing” her–but she had made clear within seconds of his reentering his life that she was not a choice. So she could see these qualities in him, wanting to be a good father and husband, and even a (still angry but loving) son, but they weren’t things he sort of pretended to have in order to impress her–they were just real qualities of the man he’d grown into being.
Once Tamara betrayed Neal, that’s when Neal felt free to do something about his feelings for Emma, aside from the not-so-little problem of realizing she was in Nl. This whole time, he’s realized that this is harder on her than him in many ways, as he was the one who left, he was the one who had tried to move on to that extent, and he was the one who didn’t say how he felt the instant he saw her again. He was also the one that “died”–she had to go through the pain of mourning him, while at the same time enduring the kidnapping of her son.
So with all that, Neal has been approaching Emma with very low expectations. He loves her, and he knows how difficult it must be for her. I’m not sure what state he’s in after their almost-non-date-date. I believe Charming didn’t “push” her to going, just pushed her to stop fearing happiness. She’s the one who decided maybe Neal could be a good moment until of course Pan struck.
I cannot wait to see what happens, and in what way Neal is getting or giving a “second chance” but I really hope it does have something to do with Emma.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I believe! I believe! .
Everything everyone said, the last few pages are filled with awesome thoughts–and that alone was making me feel happy then the poster! I knew it was real too. Well, I didn’t know, but it seemed to me so fishy that they did ALL the other characters and had none for just one?
More important–yes, I do think it is significant that this one is released last, and I said this pages back. Emma was the last of the Jr6–and Neal is the last of the “Love Interests” whether it is romantic, paternal/maternal –or both as he is 😛 (Belle, Henry and Neal….).
Also releasing it NOW, after Neal had a second chance at fatherhood–it really amps up the meaning as being about romance with Emma.
*cookies* for all
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
I think we will get more on Mulan, and also on the wraith thing with Phillip. I don’t even know what to make of the filming shots we have seen.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
