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I came up with undead Milah mermaid, and I had one on that Pan would be Hook’s dad.  Sometime later I suggested that teenage Pan was both Hook’s and Rumpel’s dad.

The strangest one though I made up was that Belle mother  and Hook’s father are  the same person (off a joke answer in a lightening round)–Virginia Wolfe wrote a novel called Orlando.  It has been made into a movie with Tilda Swinson.  It is about a person who lives 400 years never growing old and turning from man to woman.  So my crack theory was they would fit in an adaptation of her story.

Then today I was noticing   Jo’s avatar picture of MRJ and the expression put me in mind of this actor Jeffrey Donnovan from Burn Notice.  So I decided he should play Neal’s half brother from Hook and Milah who Hook thought died, but really didn’t because Milah secretly gave the child away at birth, and pretended the child died as she didn’t want to be a mother.   He can also be Emma’s real true love, combining the best of both personalities without the negative history of either.   Except it is still angsty and messed up.  Then I decided he should be the Wizard of Oz. .   If this can also get them to have Bruce Campbell on the show and some kind of Evil Dead/Ash reference, then all will be crack-tastic as I could wish.

 

 

 

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Nice graphic things Wr and RG!

Speaking of graphic…woah, every time I see that banner WR, I blush 😛

Sorry, PoM, I’m not much of a fan fic reader.  I just like reading people’s headcanon for stuff.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I’m really curious how they are going to add her into the story.  I’ve felt there are certain similarities between Mother Gothel and Regina, though Gothel in the Disney movie gets pushed all the way to uncaring villain in the end.  She could have raised Rapunzel to be like an animal, with limited knowledge of how to do anything, but she gave her books, paints, food and sort of seemed to have a twisted, manipulative but still emotional connection with her as a “daughter”–until she was no longer useful of course and then she chained her up against her will to continue using her!

Now I’m wondering, is Rapzunel at 14 a character in a flashback or one we might meet present day?  If flashback, would she have any relation to any characters we’ve met before or not? Entirely new world?  So many questions, it might leave you pulling out some hair!

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Happy Endings:  RG is right about why Pan might have wanted Henry to have a wake-up trigger, but I think BF  or August makes more sense.  I can’t remember, was there ever anything said that confirmed it is not August? I think they tweeted not Jefferson.

If it were Pan, and he couldn’t get agents inside, how did he get the book inside?  I think of two possible ways, August was his agent and August could get inside or more likely,  the shadow could get inside but was of limited use, as it could not take Henry without Henry asking to go.  It could however deliver the book somewhere.

So I would say Pan is a possibility if my speculation is true the Shadow could do something like that.

I still think August makes the most sense as the writer, because he was a writer and added his part in the same style. Most of the big ‘reveals’ haven’t been that deep so far.  As to  how he knew all this stuff, I think BF TOLD him all these stories (fairy tales) and August physically wrote them down.

We also have the line that he looked familiar to Regina and we’ve debated before how that seems more like she saw him as an adult than recognized him as a child, but it could go either way.

If August or BF, it makes sense Whale is not in the book, because BF didn’t know that bit.

Are there anythings in there (other than flying monkeys) we could say for sure she wouldn’t have reason to know?  Not that she couldn’t know about Whale but just that we didn’t see any evidence she did know him.  She doesn’t really seem to react to him when the curse lifts, but I have to re-watch it.

Now I’m wondering if Pan had agents waiting to see if Henry left, and maybe the moment he did, he sent in the DB’s to snatch him.  I’m picturing   the DBs on the street outside Emma’s apartment, and cursing their luck, that they’ve just left. Then  a few car lengths behind the yellow bug, a red convertible with a teddy bear keychain is speeding, trying to catch up and then slams into a barrier before it can!   Foiled again.

I’d like to imagine that Pan had the DBs recruit folk like GOAT because he wanted to keep the magic resources of the “Land without (much) Magic” low, or because it was useful to get into SB that way without alerting Rumple or Regina.  That’s why I don’t think Pan would send his shadow, as it would have tipped them off.

That’s all “retcon” reasoning though, because really I don’t think the writers had in mind that Pan was Rumple’s father and after Henry from the start of the show.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I am not sold that Rumple wrote it either.  Rumple knew about Whale and he is not in the book.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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I think magic is still dying and in a convoluted way, Pan has further aims in mind of restoring it for his own selfish reasons.  There have been too many hints about the “last this” or that magical item so I think it is a real thing happening, whether or not HE is the cause of magic dying this way, he wants to reverse that.

I think beyond immortality and the heart, he needs to do something, and it might involve this new curse.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Just to back up a second to something from a few pages ago, but Gold says “procure” because that is the right word, knowing that in hindsight,  he isn’t really Gold and she isn’t really Regina Mills,  so anything he filed for her was essentially  just a fraud perpetuated by magic.  There’s no point going into legal technicalities since before we even get to custody, we’d run aground on the question of these people all being illegal immigrants other than Henry of course.
Anyway, the point is, Regina fooled the agency into thinking she was something she was not in order to obtain a child without the risk and danger of going out and stealing one outright again.   She had no idea about Pan, and even if she did, this would be like saying it is ok to kidnap a child because someone else will try to kidnap and then kill them.As to what Pan wanted, I think it hints that Henry had a special heart at birth, even though babies cannot believe, it really only takes a few years to raise one up to that stage and that’s where the DB’s would come in.

 

Jane has also said she learns new things in the writer’s room, and there has been a time or two where  she says something and Adam says she’s mistaken.  They don’t have the whole story mapped out, we have to remember.  They have outlines, and some details are not fixed in all their minds.So both can be true, that Henry is genetically a product of dark blood magic and also his environment with Regina influenced him some way, making Pan’s plan’s much more difficult to achieve, forcing him to improvise heavily.

 

He is not the only one!   This goes back to “we write for the fans” and “we have a story planned” speaking out of both sides of their mouth by A&E.   It is both, and aside from Season 1, with shows like this, it is always both.  They want to stay on the air.  They want fans to like the show.  They know what some want would make others stop watching.  They want some controversy to stir emotions, get fans engaged.  Yet they want a somewhat cohesive story so that more casual fans are not constantly saying “this makes no sense”.

 
So they’re navigating a tricky line.  On the one hand, Regina does save Henry from a worse fate, but she does it more for her own reasons about herself, and only recently has she come to realize she needs to love him the way he needs to be loved, not the way she wants to love.  They can say “Regina Mills” adopted him legally, please the Evil Regals, but as with Graham, it is quibbling and avoiding the fact Regina the Queen is not really who she pretended to be and knew it.

 

As for the DB–I also think they set Emma up for jail and tried to snag Baby Henry then, because they had advance knowledge about his birth by prophecy.  Seems odd they failed to get the baby in AZ, but then, we have yet to learn if perhaps there was some counter-influences out there besides Pan, someone who wrote the book, guided August.
Maybe Sneaky Fairy, maybe another but I am still hoping there is more to come.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Truidia:   Snow is not selfish and self-centered just because she does on occasion think of herself or David!  As others already covered a lot of why that is, I’ll just skip to the one most people agree with you on, which is Snow’s cave confession.  I went into it on the Regret thread, but again, this is a secret wish of Snow, and while hard to hear for Emma. it was not all bad for Emma either.  Emma relates to Snow as a friend, more than a mother, so she has sympathy and she has empathy as she might have felt a bit the same over Henry ‘s early days.  Third, a sibling would mean another person to love her and another person to love for her, so I don’t think it was just opening a raw gaping wound–though I think that’s how she felt after  Charming’s confession that he was not saved after all.

Slurpeez : I agree with that too, that Snow did the right thing telling Emma about Neal.  All of the emotional stuff you mention that invites various opinions and debate about what Emma wanted aside,  bottom line, Neal knew the way off the island.

If it had been Archie in that box with a way off, or even without one for that matter, no one would have second guessed going to get him.  They’d have had an easier time without Henry than with him and with Pan chasing him, so if they were going to go rescue, it would have to be a side mission.

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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Malcom is pretty bad and you add the messed up things Pan’s done and I think it is very unlikely.  His only goal is making himself happy and carefree, regardless of whether others have to suffer or not and the whole “game” thing he has going on highly suggests he prefers they DO suffer.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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As we saw with Giancarlo Esposito, they got him in the studio to record dialog and used it in two episodes very far apart.  They may have done the very same thing with Yvette.

I’m open to a new creature, and I think it may be that what happens in the past is tying into something they try on Pan in the present when they discover the trick.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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