Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Golden key hit the nail on the head. The mysteries to tease out no longer seem important, because the answers are generally “it was magic” or ” it does not matter, because the characters involved will never appear again” So Phillip and the wraith? Who cares. There are many more things like that. Then character moments that wind up offscreen, like Belle and Mo. So what does take up time? Ships, and new characters iconic enough to lure us in to see the display live action but I know no real depth will follow. We glimpse Dorothy and Rapunzel, the Wizard but unlike S1 side characters who are part of the town, partially scenery, partial recurring players, these are all meant to vanish. I doubt we will see Ariel or Eric, Tiny or others again, and if we did it will not connect at all to their earlier stories in a consistent way, but just not inconsistent like Cora apparently almost marrying Leo. That we see Archie also seems meaningless, or Grumpy as they never get stories to change them ( outside of a DVD extra maybe). Henry is a side character or object now, no longer feels like the heart of the show. It feels very check the box of fan demands to me. Like that Mirror VoiceOver cameo, hardly the follow up to Glass and his storyline, or a quick moment with Red. It does not feel like a tapestry any more, with the old lady Spinsters being some significant detail that plays out later. It was just a random thing, like Pan being a blacksmith. Details that will not be important continue to mount, with new story elements just dropped in from nowhere out of convenience ( hello black fairy wand, blood magic locks ( why would rumple not have locked the dagger with blood magic? When Cora was after it? ). We used to speculate answers with the hope that it would connect all the dots later, that future episodes would make previous ones clearer, but instead it kind of muddies or retcons certain things, to the extent things are not just ignored of course.
Maybe a new show will come along for it was interesting to discuss with you folks, once upon a time but this show seems more enjoyable if I think way, way “turn off your brain less” like Dark shadows or something.
[adrotate group="5"]“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Yes, thanks to all of you for sharing, whether doom or gloom or cynical this is why it went boom, or hope and pretties, it all comes around to the fact this part of the story, this pair of characters and their journey touched us and connected with us in various ways. I love reading the hopeful stuff too because in the end a story about wish fulfillment, second chances, true love and magic, happy endings and all that Jazz sort of invites that kind of thing. I think it is natural in a story like this to continue to imagine what ifs, along with talking about the wonderful bits of story we did get.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Marty: I get through the day just fine. It’s not my story, nor is it my life, but certainly, it has helped to have this thread and others who let me know they kind of agree, or write things with which I agree, to know my point of view is not quite so isolated.
No matter how much I wish certain things would have been written one way or another, its no different than looking at any other book or film or show and being a critic of it, but realizing that you’re commenting on something already completed and done, without intent to change what was done.
I FINALLY watched Star Trek Into Darkness last night, and while I did enjoy it, I had the sense it was not as fun as the first reboot film. So I went online to find some reviews, and many of the things they reviewers mentioned about why they too found it not as good as the first, resonated with how I feel about comparing OUAT S3 to OUAT S1.
Too much plot, with too many holes, too much action over scenes to help create consistency with characters was one thing but there were other things and so many were applicable (I felt) to OUAT.
I love fantasy and sci-fi as a genre, and I have seen many examples of it both good and bad, but particularly in television, it tends to be a genre that doesn’t fare too well because it doesn’t always appeal to the “average” viewer. So many such shows don’t get the ratings and get ended early. In fact, the other day William Shatner was tweeting for sci-fi shows in general to support them for that reason.
There was this Den of Geek article on a related topic which I’ll link.
Worth Watching a Cancelled TV Show?
I’m the sort of person who hates jumping into the middle of a story, and normally it drives me crazy not to get to the end, but there are some sci-fi shows and stories that I enjoyed and don’t regret having started even though they did NOT really get to conclude but just sort of stopped. In no particular order, Flash Forward, SG Universe, Farscape, and I’m sure there are others but honestly, sometimes we do put too much emphasis on the end rather than the journey. Don’t get me wrong, the ending can turn a good story into a great one, or make something good into trash. All the same though, I have to look at OUAT as something that concluded already in Going Home, with an open ending of Henry and Emma driving off, knowing they’d touched everyone’s lives, and that Happy Endings aren’t always what we think.
The part where Hook shows up at the door? That’s where the “next chapter” started, but to me its a chapter that feels like something churned out and uninspired as any romance novel out there (and I have read my share, a friend of mine does that for a living). That stuff SELLS, and unless you get lucky with something more artistic, odds are, its hard to resist the lure of cold, hard cash. Plenty of people LOVE those kinds of stories, so again, its like I said about WWE not being my taste. I was mad it sort of took over half of the Sci-Fi channel’s schedule, but at the same time, I realize its something that brings happiness/joy/entertainment to many other people and kept the channel going.
If the writers, actors and crew don’t genuinely feel as excited about the story they are telling now, versus the one they started in S1,well I can’t imagine any of them would (except maybe RC because he strikes me as someone who ‘s too established to care that much about Hollywood politics) feel like saying it. That’s not how you stay employed in this industry, and there’s so many examples of people who tried to be critical of the shows they were on, or backdoor politics in Hollywood who ultimately negatively impacted their own careers. So whatever is happening in the show, whether planned or not, desired or not–no one is ever going to say anything to get on someone else’s bad side, not without some clear example of outrageous behavior (like that guy on Two and a Half Men, Charlie Sheen)–or until its water under the bridge and the show is over, and its not like the actor involved fears reprisals would matter.
I remember talking at one point about how Hook reminds me of how Seven of Nine came into Voyager, and had linked an article talking about how cast/crew felt about the whole thing, but it was overall a “we knew this was a game changer” positive spin type thing. The Gift
Here’s an article from an actor that was NOT as positive about it.As I started watching Voyager on reruns, I saw it out of order. So Seven of Nine was already there for me, and I didn’t really question or feel resentful about how the show altered and shifted around to be increasingly about Seven. I wonder if I would have, had I started the show from its first episode in order?
At this point, I’m trying to just erase my memory of Seasons 1 -2, so I can just get in the frame of mind the writers appear to be in now, that half the fanbase is in now and maybe I’ll be able to enjoy and just pretend it is a different show that just happens to have the same actors.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
So I think my earlier post was eaten by the forum’s malfunctions today.
I’ll try to hit the highlights:
1) DSB and Phee: PREACH.
2) Why does everyone get a happy ending but Regina
It’s funny how people in this fandom think, this buddy TV article seems to think Regina’s the “only one” not to get a happy ending. I get that it was a heartbreaking set-back for Regina to find out the man she thought was her soul-mate and second chance at love isn’t a widower after all, and that his wife and the mother of his son is alive. All the same, considering she would have blown up the entire SB at one point just to have Henry, that Henry was all she considered her Happy Ending, and without him would have put herself on ice, it seems “in many ways” (see I can use Adam’s favorite spin phase too) she is happy. Yet let’s not forget that Rumple, for all he’s hitching up with Belle, just lost his son. Despite the various “you have my blessing to forget all about me and be totally happy ” moments they crammed into the death espidoe, the fact is, Neal’s dying should have left a big hole in the life of everyone who loved him. It’s not that the show is really telling that story though, so I get why someone might think Regina was the only one making the sad face in the finale, but honestly, she’s far from the only character with a lot of rain on her sunny days. The only one who’s sitting in the cat bird’s seat is again, Hook. He gets everything he wants, and gives up practically nothing. Oh, his ship? Right, didn’t he JUST steal that back like it was nothing? Oh, that’s right he did. What a great, big sacrifice that was, not like he had to dismantle it to make a magic cabinet. That would have made a lot of sense and been fitting, that the JR was destroyed, but instead we get random magical bean and some new plot rule of magic that the reverse curse sealed up any potential magical portal paths (even though there were paths BEFORE the curse). I do think the writers are trying to say he’s changed, but my point here is they are such bad writers, that they don’t even realize when they’re undermining the story they want to tell (or maybe they do, because its not the story they wanted to tell).
When Adam tweets things like “oh the off screen conversation between Belle and her father means nothing?!” to a disgruntled Belle fan–I have to roll my eyes. Yes Adam, if it is offscreen, doesn’t that imply it didn’t mean enough to film? But I think its stronger than that. We’ve seen enough things happen on screen that get completely transformed by later dialog so goodness knows what’s in those offscreen moments. Maybe Mo didn’t forgive Rumple, but Rumple didn’t want Belle sad so he whammied Mo. It’s all offscreen. Anything is possible! Mo could have been victimized by the elusive black fairy for all we know, because when the standard for this show is “not inconsistent”- rather than consistent with prior scenes–who’s to say what’s in those scenes? Now they’ve opened up time travel, they don’t even have to worry about being “not inconsistent”–they just create “replacement” story now too. Yet the larger problem here, is by not showing us Mo and Belle, they’re also avoiding having to deal with Rumple’s less-than-savory treatment of Mo, and Mo’s less than savory treatment of Belle. All in favor of just jumping to the romantic moment the shippers demanded to see.
3) The sentiments people were expressing reminded me of an old song, by Genesis, (Phil Collins era)–“That’s all”. The lyrics just seem to fit with what I’m feeling a little bit. This show had so much potential, and I wanted it to be different but I just don’t see the world in this upside down, villain’s fairy tale way–at least, I didn’t feel in S1 that was what this show was about. I’ve learned I’m watching a different show though, and its hard to get used to that. This is a villain’s fairy tale, and it is the story of how the Evil Queen gets it all, and Captain Hook does too–both of them aided in this through the unintentional meddling of the Fairy Godfather, Rumple who makes deals you should refuse (because all magic has a price). He’s doing things for his own agenda, unlike the traditional fairy godmothers who are out to help the deserving. That’s the show. The other characters, like the Charmings, Henry, and Emma? They’re just the hapless heroes who get caught in the middle, and survive only because they’re of value to the villains, one way or the other. If it went full on Game of Thrones, that would be one thing, but see, it can’t quite do that, because its Disney adaptions, so even though we’re seeing the villains win sometimes, we’re still seeing some lose, and some traditional “happy endings” happen as they do in Disney Princess land. Its kind of a jarring thing.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Heather, so cute!
DSB:
Emma really feels like Milah 2.0, now with sparkly magic power and a kid she doesn’t totally hate to be around, except she’s still apparently leaving him alone alot, than Emma Swan.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
DSB: Here’s a plate of cookies and some hot cocoa with cinnamon. I’m glad you shared what you feel. These stories all hit us in emotional places, and sometimes it helps to explain it, so I hope it did.
As for MRJ: I’m hoping he’s on Gotham, with his buddy Donal Logue.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
oh Marty, no words just hugs. At least Neal did understand that in the end that Rumple loved him and wanted to fix that moment, even if there is not to be much more to the reconciliation than that.
Someone should make the Pink song “who knew” , the video she made features two kids at a carnival even. Just let me find my Kleenex box first.
In my Entertainment Weekly, they had a whole feature on “heartbreaking” cinema, like Cassablanca. MRJ unscripted glove moment added so much class and meaning to the scene,, just poignant and while not the right genre for fairytales, it would have worked better if the writers had PLANNED a nourish tragic vibe for SF from the start, but they did not. Still, I read an essay from someone with a different take on the waterfront thing, that Neal deep down knew he would never really be with Emma except for a little while, because he accepted the tragedy of his life, his fate. Again, not entirely sure the writing and prior performances capture this quite so much, especially with his talk with Mulan and all that, but if they had done that? Maybe, would be easier to feel it had a place in the story rather than misdirection and cheap stake raising (remember, they could not even kill Blue or a monkey Aurora,)
I bet if Jaime Dornhan were available Graham would have come back from the past.
I have mixed feeling about the necklace on wrist next to the shoelace, it puts Graham and Neal on equal footing , diminishes the notion that true love helped the item stay with her. Things with Graham felt more what might have been, then with Neal it was sort of what once was and might have been again.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
You might appreciate this joke, Ranisha. When people were speculating about Kristen Belle maybe being Elsa, someone said “Will House of Lies let her” and my immediate thought was why wouldn’t Disney let her, then realized the person meant the television show she’s on.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Oh Marty, my heart broke extra for you. You’re screename told me you were a fan of the BTFF movies, and for them to reference THAT movie, of all things in a plot that screamed for Rumple to find a way to bring back his son, only to have him OOC shrug and give it up…
I don’t hate you because even though you don’t quite get Neal the way others do, you at least cared about the story of a father and son, even to the point where THAT mattered to you more than just Rumple’s happiness. I feel it was complicated between Rumple and Neal. Yes, Rumple did go to extraordinary measures to get back to his son, but he crossed lines. He became someone that it was not easy for Neal to understand, trust and let back in. In time, Neal could see what the audience saw in Rumple, but it took time–and the way it ended was a complete slap in the face to what either of their characters were really about. Coward/Hero? No, it was more about a father and son being with each other, learning to love each other again despite the broken trust.
Neal promised Henry he’d be his father, that he would be there and if anything, this ridiculous plea from Emma to not take “dying a hero” away from Neal is a direct slap in the face to what Henry would actually want and who Neal actually was already. It’s Milah part 2 on her part, really, saying to Rumple he should have died rather than tried to be there for his son at the price of being labelled a coward. It’s like all those times Neal fought by Emma’s side against Regina, Pan, Cora– none of THAT made him heroic? What the what? Yet odder than that, is that Rumple would BUY some random person’s word on this. He was actively trying to foretell the future, so he’s just going to suddenly stick his head in the sand because some lady traveling with Hook of all people SAYS so? That doesn’t make sense! It just destroys Rumple’s “both ends against the middle” canniness, his puppet master status just pushed aside to make him seem like a manipulated sheep, and lessens the emotional journey he made to become “more redeemed” Rumple if he was already capable of setting aside his personal happiness for some “greater good”. Maybe they “sell it in the scene” as Adam and Eddy once said in one of their television specials about something that didn’t quite make sense on paper but I think A&E write a lot of stuff and just expect the charisma of their actors to make up for it. Well, that kind of bad writing catches up eventually.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
The thing is, the writers could have made Hook into Rumple’s son. It would have been a very interesting spin on things and as for Henry being in the Rumple family line, that does not seem to be important at all now. Maybe his father could have been a Darling or descendant or something but it just would have thrown people for a loop. Nice mislead into thinking Rumple’s son is Henry father but no he is the guy out to kill him for killing his mother. It could have worked, and no ick factor. Then HookBae becomes the stepfather of Henry.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
