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@surayya I think Hook leaving Emma and other princesse in that cell is nothing compered to Neal living her in prison for a Crime she did not commit. Emma was the first one who left Hook behind. And they have just met each other. No relationship history there. Neal sent his lover to jail. No comperation here.
SF/NF fans always say he had good intentions. There is this saying: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Most of Neals actions are not so good as his *intentions*, while most of Killian actions towards Emma are rather beneficial for Her. The only unfortunate one I think of, is the whole * Henry kidnapping* situation.
Rumple himself said in-show “Intent is meaningless”. I wouldn’t say Hook was “kidnapping” Henry since that implies it was against Henry’s will. It was more taking without asking. Hook’s intent in that scenario was noble, getting Henry out of Zelena’s reach, however his execution of said intention let him down.
I agree with you. I’ve used term “kidnapping” in reference to what is being labeled as by some people. 😀 It was a mind short cut hence the misunderstanding. Sorry.
[adrotate group="5"]See to me, it “almost seems OOC” Only IF his actions towards Emma (aka Jail, abandonment, his treatment of her in S2) have been “excused”. The writing was on the wall even back in S1- I dont think Neal fans really truly took to heart that Neal has always been written as the person who cemented Emma’s elephant sized trust issues. They loved the actor & Rumple, so ‘forgave’ Neal his actions- despite the direction of the story. Neal was shown to have a selfish, cowardly streak right from the start & it reared it’s head on a number of occasions, we’ve discussed them many times here- yes, sure he had a change of heart & went back to the apartment to make sure his father didnt kill Emma for breaking her deal with him & he stepped up to be Henry’s father- but that is 2 instances in a long list of not so great actions ie. sending her to jail, abandoning her a number of times, belittling Emma & demeaning her skills/talent, taking her to task for tracking him down, when it was him who had wronged her, his double standards towards others etc. The problem is SF/NF fans gave him a pass & put a more positive spin on these not so great actions actions- they excused them as acceptable or o.k despite the direction of the story telling, so come S3 all the smaller slips didnt count in their eyes & his bigger slips into even ‘less than stellar’ actions seemed to come out of nowhere & were OOC for them- yet here in the CS thread none of us where surprised at all- we saw it coming from way back in S2- I remember thinking they were going to set Neal up as the next DO in S2 & S3 & I wasnt the only one who felt that way… that wasnt because he was Rumple’s son or we didnt want him with Emma, it was purely because he was written with the glimpses of darkness/nastiness & the potential to do very cowardly & ‘dark’ things right from the get go, as was proven in S3, we just didnt put him on a pedestal & refuse to see his actions for what they were. I think many of us saw Hook as darkness working towards lightness & Neal as lightness working its way towards darkness, which put people off of shipping him with Emma.
You’ re reading my mind. 😀 Although I would not dwell on the darkness vs. lightness part( I know it’s importatnt in a fantasy show). Aside from what he is thinking about Emmas superpower and origins, it is also about the choices Neal made regarding her( and Henry later) or rather his actions. SF/NF fans always say he had good intentions. There is this saying: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Most of Neals actions are not so good as his *intentions*, while most of Killian actions towards Emma are rather beneficial for Her. The only unfortunate one I think of, is the whole * Henry kidnapping* situation.
The problem is we can not verify if someone is our solumate or not. There is no way to know for sure but the idea is very tempting. You can think you’ve met your solmate many times and never be rigth
Unless you have pixie dust
– if you have pixie dust it can tell you who your soul mate is- you just follow it to the lucky lad or lady lol :p … well at least according to Tink, it can lololol I’ ve not thought about pixie dust to be honest. Tink is a rebel pixie. She wasn’t sopouse to do that anyway. She will probably lose her wings again, if she ‘ll go flying around, usinng pixie dust on people. Not sure she’ ll do that.
I know haters gonna hate and that any discousioin with them is pointless really. That is way I posted here. Thank you guys for your support and everything.
@ellemo78 I don’ t feel like I’m wearing shipper glasses.(maybe I am:)) The thing is, if Hook had been out of picture or written as evilHook without his Killian persona shinning trough, I still would have not seen Neal as someone right for Emma( written the way he is). Even if they were thogether again, it would not work. I think they would be miserable in the end
Leaving this here because of the “Good Feels” it gave me reading it this morning 😉 Spoiler tagging the whole thing just in case.
Emma and Killian Committing To Each Other and Taking It To The Next Level Okay, first of all, God bless the ABC promo people whose hand slipped and included that phrase in the official season 4 description. Second of all, the reason they included that question is because the answer to it is yes. That’s how you set audience expectations; THAT is Emma and Killian’s overriding storyline for season 4. We finally get to see them in a full-fledged love story. On TV shows in general, and especially in OUAT, you don’t float that big of a romantic teaser for the SHOW’S MAIN CHARACTER and her new love interest (confirmed many times by the showrunners to have been the plan all along) only to be like “lolnope” and a giant disappointment. So the fact that we are being asked if Emma and Killian will overcome their damages and commit and take it to the next level means that they will. Which is alone enough to start calling Life Alert, but hang in there. First, the “next step” of being in a formal relationship has already been taken; we’re told at the start of the season that Emma is dealing with having a “stable relationship for once.” So the next step can’t be that they merely agree to date; they’ve already done that, and that was the note they closed last season on — after two seasons of buildup, they are finally and officially together. Something bigger is coming for the end of this season, especially due to the fact that one of the chief themes is never giving up on the people you love (and remember, it was THEIR love. Not just Killian’s love, but THEIR LOVE). In 4A, we’ll see them as their damaged selves, Killian struggling with his “bad boy” side and Emma struggling with her issues, as they try to work out what their relationship looks like. They love each other, but there are challenges and obstacles to be faced, and it’ll be hard. But then in 4B, we build on all that, and the chief pieces of foreshadowing from season 3: a) the failed TLK, and b) all the wedding talk surrounding Emma. Remember, those are still unresolved, and remember also that it was really, really blatant how they were positioning Killian as the man to fulfill all that. At the end of season 4, once they have passed through the struggle in 22 episodes, faced their issues and fallen even more in love, either one of those is the natural culmination to their story, and I’m honestly inclined to think it may well be an engagement. Just a TLK is possible too, of course, but that alone does not signify “commitment” and “next level.” Killian already gave up his ship for her, and while that was a profound demonstration of love, it served only to start their exploration of a relationship, not to confirm them as IT for all time (even though we know they are). They’re already using a green screen to film a CS kiss in 4×03, so Emma’s magic is probably acting out. Plus we briefly had the TLK light ring in 3×20 when she kissed him to save his life. So while a TLK could be the payoff, I’m still thinking it’s going to be more. Just look at Emma’s reaction in the 4×03 spoilers. She’s angry at Killian for doing something she didn’t like, he apologizes, and then goes in for a kiss, which she eagerly and passionately accepts. She doesn’t push him away or shut him out. She has already made her choice, and therefore, in the interest of storytelling and the compressed frame of events in which things happen on this show, this is the logical next development; they’re not going to hang around in stasis just dating for the next several seasons. They’re going to move forward. The Walsh storyline was still included for a reason, and all the marriage talk around her, the blatant foreshadowing of a proposal and marriage and eventual pirate babies in 3×22. So yeah. Methinks it be acoming. Needless to say, we will die. [/spoiler]
Good feelings received:)
Regarding that green screen while filming a Kiss… I think it could go two ways: Emma’s magic reacst to her emotions and we will get some magical fireworks or someone is observing them trough a magical mirrow or something like that.
😀
To the second part. I’ve started earlier post becouse I’ve read about how trading his ship for a magic bean was not a selfless hero deed for Hook because it is a material thing and he got the girl. And how Emma shouldn’t be moved by it and *suddenly* reciprocate his feelings.
First of all there is no such thing like selfless deed and altruism. Why? Becouse their definisions declare you don’t have any personal gain whatsoever while perusing it(is that even corect entence?). And when any relation between two human beings, there is alwas some gain. Be it something good or bad for us. Sometimes it is something we can see like: Hook got a chance to see Emma, win her heart etc. It is easier to say Hook gesture was not selfless then, because you can see, let’ s say, on obvious, tangibleout outcome of his actions. When Rumple was giving up his life, his gain was not so obvoius. Some may disagree bu there was a gain- psychological one. His son will see him as a better peroson thous he will redeem himsefl. His lover will get a confirmation that he is a good man, like she always thought. In all in that moment he felt better about himself- and that is a gain. You can’t touch it or see it but it’s still there.
Hook gave up his ship a symbol of many things. Form him as a character it is a great sacrifice. Itwas not only his home now , it was a part of his identity. It still is. He will have to rebuild himself now, struggle to change his was of 300 hundreds years. Emma understands this because she is in a way in similiar situation. She’s got a family now, a huge one, her magic, she’s home. To have this an to keep it she must let go of her previous ways and fears. She must rebiuld herself too and knows Hook is willing to stick beside her and help her. His one step ahead of her and gave up his home for her, something she has been searchig for a long time.
I really love how broken they both are- that’s what makes them interesting together. The can either heal each other or be each other downfall. It is all about the journey.
Not to mention Hook(like other redeeming villians) is a wondelfull mix of gray shades, not bornig whithes like Snowing in the 1 seasnon.
Sorry. I just needed to get it out of my system.
You know I really must stop reading anti CS and anti OUAT canon staff….It’s like I’ve been watching entirely different show!
To be honest I’ve come across this forum by accident really. I was serching the net for some info and spoilers regarding next season and I’ve found some kind of rant that the show went downhill becouse of *obvious* reasons. I’ve wanted to know why some think the way they think and are there people who share my point of view.
I would like to belive that I see OUAT like it had been written. For example I ‘ve seen seating up CS from the beginning. In Tallahasse we see Hook that gets Emmas emotional state( open book and abandonment thing). He has never questioned her ability to be a lie detector in oposite to Neal( huge sign there). And there to whole *if I ‘ve known who you are…* coming from Neal in Manhattan. I know it has been discussed already, I just need to point this out again.
The problem with interpratiaton here is that poeple often see thing in *if I were this or that character I would do or should want this or that* way. If I were were in Emma’s place I would not start a relatioship with either Hook or Neal. I am completely diferent person with diferent background. But I can see that Hook has been written to be exactly what she needs to deal with her abandonment issues. Peolpe with them tend to push away anyone who is close to never leaving them and never letting them down. Call it defense mechanism against something that they fear becouse they’ ve never known it. If they succed in pushing people away, their self-fulfilling prophecy cames trute and that confirms they are nor worthy of beaing loved etc. If Emma was in theraphy the goal would be to stick to her no mather what and show her not everyone will leave her even when she pushes them away. That is what Hook does. So that on the topic of chaingin the writting for CS to happen…
I still have same rant to do abut sacrifices, heros selfnesness and altruism. But I will write about this later.
Let’s just say that world is not black and white but in all shades of gray in my opinion.
The one thing I would counter is that Eddy did not say he thinks a SM is when there is only one perfect match; what he actually said was:
Kitsis and Horowitz also clarified the difference between what a true love is versus what a soulmate is on the show. “True love is when you truly love somebody,” Kitsis said. “Soulmate is the idea that there’s only one person for you.”
Regarding this SDCC quote I also think the key word here is idea. A very beautifull idea with roots in Greek Mythology. There was this myth that at the beginning humans had 2 faces, 4 arms, 4 legs and only one soul. Zeus split each in half and left them to wonder the world in search of their perfect other half- a soulmate.
The problem is we can not verify if someone is our solumate or not. There is no way to know for sure but the idea is very tempting. You can think you’ve met your solmate many times and never be rigth.
In OUAT TLK confirms that this and that person are each other TL. That they truly love one another. You can truly love a partner, parent, child, sibling or even a friend. Do any of them have to be your soulmate? I don’t think so.
I understand the term soulmates as PriceofMagic does- *perfect understanding*( as perfect as it can be between two human beings). Soulmate is the person that just gets you on every level, understands how you think and feel.
Regardnig canon confirmed TL couples, I think Snowing can be considered soulmates on some level, although I can’t say I like them very much. I do like Rumbell but I don’t think they are soulmates.
*waves* HI @lady!!! Great to have a new person joining our thread. Your English is great btw. Where in the world are you?
Hi to you too. Thank you. I am aiming to be fluent one day and get CPE(Certificate of Proficiency in English) but it is a long way before me still. I’m from central eastern Europe- Poland accurately.
ellemo78 I’ve never had that problem before season 3 finale. When we weren’t canon I had lesser expactations. Now I know we’re going to see lots of fluffiness at faster rate and I can not stop myself.:D
That Vid- WOW- it will be breathtaking once properly cut and edited in an episode.
