[lisas]

Hey guys I’m catching up on posts and this may or may not have been covered already but I understand we lost some pages due to spam.

I’m going to stick my nose into this for a minute because honestly someone has too. First off RG, let me just say that I understand depression probably better then most people because I’ve had my own bouts of depression when I was younger and at one point the depression I was in was just so bad and deep that I did try unsuccessfully to slit my own wrists. I’m not going to go into the details of the why I would even think of doing something like that but what I will say is I was at point in my life where I had absolutely no hope left. Now when I look back on things I can’t fathom the reason why losing hope would cause me to something that bad.

Reading through some of the posts I don’t see where Marty or anyone else was acting like you were a depressed loser. Because I certainly don’t think that and I’m sure no one else does as well. I don’t think it was Marty’s intention to order you to pick up his/her view about having hope that we will see Neal again. All Marty asked was for you to try to see why we should have hope pure and simple. No one was questioning the way you look at the world if anything Marty was asking you to try and view things from his/her perspective Heck RG you might think it’s crazy for me to have hope that we will see Neal again. Frankly, I could care less whether or not you think I’m burying my head in the sand like Marty or other fans who also think that we may see Neal again down the line. I choose to have hope because I happen to think we will see him in Season 4 in flashbacks and I really believe that we will see MRJ & his character of Neal back in the Final season of Once Upon A Time which I believe will be Season 5. That is my right as as well as the right of other fans to have that same kind of hope as I and others like Marty do.

So then my question to you RG is Who are you to tell us not to have that hope because when it comes right down to it at the end of the day you are just like the rest of us here a fan you don’t know any thing more or any thing less then rest of us here regarding what went down behind the scenes with MRJ, Adam & Eddy and ABC.

We all have our own views, speculations, theories about everything that went on during this season behind closed doors and we all have our own viewpoints and feelings, thoughts, hopes, beliefs, theories and speculations about what we could see in the upcoming season 4 and beyond.

We are group of fans in this thread with different opinions and no matter the difference we would always respect each others view of things no matter what because we loved the actors as well as the characters of Neal & Emma & Henry and the their modern day fairytale. Which I still believe is the original story that Adam & Eddy wanted to tell but was forced not to because of Network Interference & Politics, fan service. Nobody will never get me to believe otherwise.

As I said I’m glad MRJ has a new project to be excited about and I can’t wait to see what it is. But at the same time I believe he was really hurt by what the network did and by what Adam & Eddy did as well.

Again for the record I believe that we will see MRJ back on Once Upon A Time in Season 4 for flashbacks and I also believe that we’ll see him back for the final season of Once Upon A Time where I believe everything will be set right once again.

I certainly don’t believe in the whole dead is dead concept anymore given how they came up with a loophole of having Regina take Snow’s heart out and split it in two so that they Snow & David both share the same heart.

So with all due respect RG my head cannon is that I choose to believe that when Emma separated Neal & Rumple and Neal died. I think while Neal’s body died I believe that his soul/spirit went into the vault of the Dark One because the vault required a life in order to bring back the Dark One I choose to believe that off screen Rumple performed a preservation spell on Neal’s body similar to what Regina did to Daniel & Henry back in Season One & Season 3A. I think it may have been performed shortly after Neal died in Emma’s arms and possibly before Emma left Neal’s body with Rumple and before Zelena showed up to find Rumple. Which could explain the whole closed casket scenario we got in 316. Anyhow My head cannon is that Neal’s body is really under the clock tower in the glass coffin where Malicifent once was. Emma may or may not know this. I suspect Rumple knew exactly what would happen once he killed Zelena with his dagger. I think he wanted that time portal open for a specific reason. When Rumple does something like what he did to Zelena he usually has a very good reason behind why he does things and the only reasons I can come up with is yes he wanted to kill Zelena for what she did to him but also because of what Zelena did to Neal and what she tried to do to the rest of his family which does include Belle, Henry, Emma, Snow, David, Baby Charming, Regina. Like Neal said in 301 Family meant something to Rumple even after he became The Dark One. I’m going to go a step further and say that I’ll lay you odds that killing Zelena the way he did had something to do with stopping Neal from using the key to begin with or to possibly add something into the curse so that both Emma and Henry both are able to return to the EF with Neal and the others in 311 which would prevent Neal from using the key to the vault in the first place in 315. I know that sounds far fetched and that I may be reaching here but you know what that is how I’m going to get through Season 4 and all the way to series finale. So if that is burying my head in the sand then I’m happy to do so and share that dream with anyone else.

[lisas]

@Rainbow & Ranisha,

I think that whatever happened was most likely a combination of Fan Pandering/Service and Network Interference/Politics

Personally I think Adam & Eddy were most likely pressured by ABC to drop the story that they originally want to tell about Emma & Neal and Henry in favor of Hook because when they saw the social media reactions to the demographic groups of to Collin who was dressed in leather and guyliner and that was it they saw dollar signs $$$$ how popular the show could be. Which I think was proved with how they overpromoted Hook every freakin chance they got and they are still doing it.

MRJ is very private person so it very possible that something did go down between him, Adam & Eddy and ABC. I seriously doubt he will ever mention what the real story is that actually happened. But there are just some bridges that person who is in this industry whether it be an actor, writer, producer, director, cinematographer, filmmmaker, etc. that you can’t burn as much as you would like to because this is your living and you have to work. This is an industry where reputation is everything.

I think we could see Michael again in Season 4 in flashbacks from seasons 2,3. I can also see a scenario where they could set even up for a possible resurrection of his character towards the end of Season 4 to go into Season 5 which I believe could be the last and final Season of Once and if that is the case I could definitely see Adam & Eddy going back and telling the story they originally wanted to tell in regards to Emma & Neal and Henry and setting everything right. Because as everything stands now it feels as if everything is of kilter with the show in regards to continunity of the storyline, the writing is all over the place, The characters are acting out of character even for them. There are plot holes and forgotten storyline that seem to have dropped even though they were promised to be told, Everything from Episodes 314-322 was totally off the mark and felt completely forced and rushed.

So do I have hope for that we well see MRJ back on Once Upon A Time down the line Absolutely. Do I have hope that SwanFire will still end up as being endgame in the final season of Once Upon A Time Absolutely

I don’t care what the CS Fans say about their ship being real and being canon because if you really think about it the way CS came about this season was & won was by dirty pool tactics because Neal was made the sacrificial lamb by ABC so that they could have CS happen. That’s the way I see it and I will never accept CS as true love or as the winning ship .

I refuse to be dictated by a fan of another ship as to what ship I should like or follow and that is what happened to me on twitter yesterday after I posted about never giving up on SF.

Sorry that this turned into a rant of sorts again

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

Mod? my posts aren’t working… i try to insert a youtube vid and it deletes my whole post :s
basically trying to put on Say something-A great big world
total swanfire feels so seen as the link aint working guys check it out and listen with swanfire ears

Lauren and I are talking on Skype so here is the video to the song she shared with me at 5:30 this morning

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

It’s pretty funny sad when people try to explain away how the swan pendant survived the dark curse. The explanation given by Belle isn’t just a matter of her opinion. Fact 1: Snow’s engagement ring survived the dark curse. Fact 2: Rumbelle’s chipped cup survived the dark curse. Fact 3: Swanfire’s swan pendant survived the dark curse. Those are events that actually happened on the show. The most logical hypothesis is the one offered by Belle: those talismans were all born of true love, which is greater than any curse. Oh, here’s another fun fact. Fact 4: True Love can break any curse. If CS were TL then Hook’s power-sucking curse should’ve been broken when Emma pressed her lips on his, the way Snow’s sleeping curse was broken when Charming pressed his lips against hers in the pilot. Both Hook and Snow were unconscious, but the difference is Snow’s curse was broken but Hook’s wasn’t. Fact 5: Not only was Hook’s curse unbroken but it actually sucked Emma’s true love magic out of her. Emma, who embodies True Love, was able to break Graham’s curse , but her power was removed when her lips touched Hook’s. Fact 6: It wasn’t a True Love kiss from Hook that restored Emma’s magic to her but her own realization about what home meant to her, thanks to Neal. Yup. Emma’s true love is what helped her save herself. That is the power of TRUE LOVE.

All this and more I got nothing else to add to this because Slurpeez just said it all in her post.

But let me just say one thing guys.
Neal maybe gone right now but I have faith that before the end of Once we will see Neal again and that SwanFire will end up as the winning ship when it’s all said and done Because That’s The Power Of Love

@Corbin There maybe some CS Fans out there who are going to gloat and try to be very dismissive of SwanFire even though it’s canon. Unfortunately you Corbin had the displeasure of having to deal with one such fan. I can tell just by that person’s language and writing style who it is and let me tell you guys this person is on the IMDb board and he/she has a lot of hate towards Neal & MRJ over there and is just as rude & nasty over there to anyone who likes Neal or ships SwanFire and doesn’t agree with their opinion about CS. I’m sorry that Corbin had a bad experience with someone like that

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

This is a great Once video for SwanFire, Rumbelle, Snowing, Henry, Regina

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

I’d love for MRJ to be on one of the TV shows I have my own for fall. Like Emerald City.

Pardon me here for a little hope where we could see MRJ next on our tv screens in a new project or hopefully down the line back on Once, As well as a little rant over why I think Neal was killed and my hope for the rest of Once Upon A Time.

Here’s hoping that he does show up back on our tv screens hopefully on NBC’s Emerald City as a cunning wizard, or on ABC’s Galavant, Or on NBC’s Grimm or the CW’s IZombie or even FOX’s Gotham.

Hopefully we will see Neal again in flashbacks in Season 4 and maybe we will see Neal be restored to life in the final season of Once to set things right the way the story was originally supposed to be told and presented. I honestly don’t see Once going past 5 seasons.

I will never believe that killing Neal was completely story driven for Season 3B based on everything that was set up in Seasons 1 & 2 and 3A. Personally I believe that it was combination of fan pandering or rather fan service to the CaptainSwan Fans & Hook Fans and Network Politics and Network interference in a tv show. Which has been done before in the past with other shows on both ABC & CBS and once a newtwork interfers and messes with an already successful show things can go down hill very quickly. I think that we are seeing that now with Once. I think naming Snow & David’s son Prince Neal after Emma’s true love and Henry’s father and Rumple’s son was Adam’s & Eddy’s and ABC’s way of trying to placate disgruntled fans over Neal’s death in hopes that they will return for Season 4 and forget what they did to a character that fans loved.
Reconstituting things from Season 1, into Season 3 so that it fits with the story they are now trying to sell to the audience now doesn’t jive. We are are seeing that with inconsistencies with continuity, plot holes, and storylines that seem to be dropped, OOC Character portrayals, etc the list goes on and on.

I’m saddened by the way Once Upon A Time is now it’s not the show that I once fell in love with at all.
When they killed Neal they basically destroyed the reason why I have loved fairytales since I was a child. It’s like they took my belief, in magic and in hope, second chances, redemption, curses, true love, true loves kiss, happy ever afters and happy endings and trashed them, I don’t know if I will ever be able to get that back because Once Upon A Time to me was the modern day fairytale story of Emma the daughter of Snow White & Prince Charming and BaelFlire/Neal Cassidy the son of Rumplestiltskin the dark one and their son Henry along with their family, friends from The Enchanted Forest and other lands.

As RG said in the podcast about Adam & Eddy being fanboys of things like Star Wars like Frozen is all well fine and good up to a point but in my opinion I think bringing Frozen into Once Upon A Time for Season 4 will end up being a huge mistake I really feel that it could backfire on them. I hope it doesn’t but I don’t feel good about it.

As far as as how I am going to deal with Once for the duration of the series. I’m continue to believe that Rumple will have something up his sleeve to bring Neal back in the final season and that it was somehow set up in Season 3B with him killing Zelena and the time portal being opened and the introduction of Elsa from Frozen as well as Marian being brought into the future by Emma & Hook all those things are bound to have consequences at some point not mention that Belle & Rumple’s marriage is pretty much based on a lie at this point because of his actions regarding Zelena. Now that Henry’s memories are back I wouldn’t be surprised if he does not accept Hook in his & Emma’s lives very easily considering he just lost his father
Henry is the heart of truest believer and he is the son of the savior and the reason for the original curse. When he was born the lights flickered just as they did when Snow & Charming’s son was born which tells me he is the product of true love just like his mother & uncle. I believe Henry to be magical as well. It wouldn’t surprise me if Henry taps into his magic now because he misses his father and wants him back. We all know that magic is based on emotion and belief and that it always comes at a price.

I could definitely see Henry going to Rumple over this where his mother & Hook is concerned and somehow I don’t think Rumple will just sit back and allow Hook to take Neal’s place in Henry’s life.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

Will post my thoughts on last night’s season finale in my new blog later today

I believe when Belle kissed Rumple during their wedding she remembered what Emma said about Neal at the Dark Castle and how much she loved him & wanted to save him, etc. I think they will use that as soome sort of loophole either in Season 4 or in the Season 5 for Rumple & Emma to go and save Neal from the vault setting everything right again because everything is now of kilter. 1.) Neal’s dead & CS is happening but Emma’s love for Neal is still there and it isn’t going away no matter how hard they force CS. 2.) Rumple & Belle’s marriage maybe real but it’s based on a lie. 3.) Marian being alive presents major problems for OutlawQueen and they’ve reconstituted Regina being a evil again because of Emma’s actions in the past. I’m going with the head canon that when Neal dies his body was preserved by some sort of spell we only saw a closed casket being lowered into the ground. Unlike when Blue was killed they had an open coffin with her in it because we saw that. I believe that When Neal died here in our realm his soul was somehow sent to the Vault Of The Dark One back in the Enchanted Forest thereby going with the whole life for a life deal. I believe the fact that both Rumple & Emma can use the black fairy’s wand to time travel gives us a loop hole to bring Neal back which we may not see until Season 4 or Season 5 I suspect Season 5 will most likely be the last season of Once. Since Adam & Eddy said they have enough stories for 5 seasons and I believe that is how long Robert Carlyle’s contract is for if I’m not mistaken.

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

Didn’t watch the episode, but read spoilers. Couldn’t stay away. I needed to talk to somebody.

(Side note: If the over-reaching theme of Season 4 is “Actions have consequences, which I hope it is, Hook’s “issues” may yet come home to roost. We’ll see. Or I won’t “see,” but I’ll read. *shrug*)

Anyway, what I came back for: I was thinking about the last TV death I was really upset about (Trip on “Enterprise” … I don’t watch much TV, can you tell?) In the Star Trek novels, they completely ret-conned the death. (They did the same with Data’s in the “Star Trek: Nemesis” movie.) And there have been other times my brain has simply refused to acknowledge something like this (the Lone Gunmen in “The X-Files”) and in my personal head canon, it never happened.

We have lots of really creative people here. Let’s put together our own ret-conned season 3B. And maybe even 4 and beyond …

We could call it “Project Phoenix.”

It doesn’t have to be a total script re-write, although it could go there if we eventually want it to do so. Starting out with the episode names of 3B, those interested could write a synopsis of each episode the way it should have been. Then if there’s still interest, we could write outlines of each episode. Then on to actual vignettes … and/or scripts.

I think it would be cathartic. And even … fun? And Neal would live on in something more than our hearts.

Thoughts?

OMG OnionGirl I love that idea and I would love to be a part of “Project Phoenix” I say let’s do it. Corbin, Phee, etc what do you guys say ?

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

I have absolutely no words for this total lack of respect or should I say total DISRESPECT by the Interns at ABC Publicity, ABC Network and Adam & Eddy to the Fans of MRJ and the Neal Fans as well as The SwanFire Fans

Now pardon me while go on Twitter and rage at ABC & ABC_Publicity Interns and A & E

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Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[lisas]

I love that theory starting to once again have a little hope again

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

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