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Corbin Wrote:
Keep in mind, Emma doesn’t know these things that Hook did:
- Take Milah from Rumple (and it was obvious that he didn’t care about adultery, because he knew she was married) and leave him fatherless.
- Leave Bae to the ruthless Peter Pan, who he knew ripped out shadows and obviously didn’t care whether or not he died because Bae told him that he was like Rumple. (I mean, ONE INSULT and you throw the BOY to the crazy, shadow-ripping man/boy/probably-TL-of-Zelena.
- Completely disregard going back for Emma when he got back to the EF because he wanted his ship (while Neal’s mind was solely focused on getting back to his family).
- When he had the option of being a hero and reuniting a TL couple or committing ruthless murder, he chose the murder.
But no, all she knows is, “You traded you ship for me?” She doesn’t know that Neal sent that message, that Neal only cared about getting back to Emma and Henry. No, and she’ll never know any of these things because, you know, reasons.
Popping over here
DING, DING, DING! You win a prize Corbin!
That’s why CS being end game is utter bull and makes no sense story wise…with no solid build up to it being True Love or even Real Love because what Emma knows about Hook is just a facade that the writers so cleverly try to push and then brush aside the truth of the matter.
Their relationship is based on no honesty at this point or understanding of their real selves. Hook never tries to understand what Emma is looking for as a “Home”. He just pushes Emma into staying with her family without understanding or knowing why she’s hesitant. That’s why they had to insert a scene with Neal to define what Emma’s goal was throughout the entire series, because story wise Hook’s character would not know these things or have a near understanding on the issue as much as Neal does.
Nor does Emma understand Hook’s true past, why he got his Hook, why he did the things he did for revenge. Emma hasn’t really chosen “him” if she doesn’t really know who he is as a person. Since her understanding of him is next to nil.
[adrotate group="5"]I really don’t think it’s course correction, since they’ve written it as Neal dying by his own hand due to opening the vault when he had the choice to back away.
Neal’s death was just convoluted, plain and simple. No amount of reasoning would be able to put into context what the writers were aiming for and what they actually executed. It was clumsy, all in attempts to rush the plot with only 10 episodes remaining. Not sure why they couldn’t stretch it a bit longer and carried it over to season 4 is beyond me…. :/
I guess I’m considered the TV junkie in my family. Some of my fav shows:
Game of Thrones – Practically obsessed with this show. It manage to merge together all the things I love. Fantasy, Political intrigue, smart storyline, and gorgeous set design and costumes.
Person of Interest – One of the few crime dramas that has an ongoing storyline. Plus Jim Caveizel and Michael Emerson = best BROTP on television!!!
Reign – Started watching after the Borgias was cancelled since I needed my medieval period fix. A rip off of the Tudors but it manage to surprise me with it’s acting. Now it’s my guilty pleasure show. Kenna and Bash are becoming my favorite couple. With Bash being my favorite character period.
Sleepy Hallow – Love Ichabod and Abbey. The finale was awesome. Agonizing wait for season 2.
Dowton Abbey – Great period drama. Maggie Smith, enough said…
Sherlock – Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman together. What’s not to love?
Honorable Mentions:
Vikings
Penny Dreadful
Boardwalk Empire
Elementary
The Big Bang Theory
True Blood
The Occasional K-drama series fix – (Just finished Empress Ki)
Could have sworn I’d posted something in this thread earlier today, but I don’t see it, and now I don’t remember exactly what it was I said. Bugger.
I’m a little bit sad that they waited this long to show an intimate SF moment such as this. If they’d had show it sooner more people would’ve understood a bit more on where Neal was coming from. Why he did the things he did so that Emma could have a real feeling of home with her actual parents. And not have people so viciously tear him down for just leaving her just because we’ve only heard them mention home but not the real reason why.
*sigh*
HUGs to DSB’s mega post a few pages back, your post was a total reflection of the way many SF fans felt as well.
@ Phee. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I could relate to that with a similar story. I encountered a guy when I was younger during a volunteer program. He started following me around. Being friendly, doing nice things for me. And I was grateful but it was clear that he was doing those things because he liked me, but I wasn’t interested in him.. I made clear signs that I wasn’t that interested without trying to be mean and tried to excuse myself when he was present. But he still stuck to me like glue, trying to volunteer at the same stations as I was. It just got very uncomfortable but I didn’t want to hurt his feelings since he was being nice. But finally it just was too much and I had to let him down. Needless to say he didn’t take it too well. Visibly look upset at me whenever I was around him. Made me feel bad because his emotions where all over the place, even other volunteers started to see. But it’s just another reason why Hook’s approach towards Emma doesn’t sit well with me. Because he had that same obsessive personality as the man I encountered and kept stepping over Emma’s personal space, kept pushing, kept doing nice things expecting something in return. And we are being taught to give in. Who knows what Hook will do if Emma did actually reject him. He went from rampaging revenge to chasing Emma, to probably drinking himself to death and Emma being blamed for driving him towards it. It’s just not right for a show to portray these things as “romantic”.
@ Corbin I think I know the exact person you are talking about. I’ve encountered her many times on IMDB forums whenever I had less than favorable things to say about “Killy” because of what the show presents to us. She ALWAYS comments about my being a sour grape about Bagel (her favorite nickname for Bae) being dead even when the conversation had nothing to do with Neal. I would just put her on ignore. It does wonders for your blood pressure. She’s an example of the extreme cases that goes by her own little logic and will always think Hook is born a saint.
@Onyx ‘s mega post
The contrived plot devices and plot holes in season 3 were just outrageous. I use to be a skeptic and defended the show when critics started questioning it more and more in season 2, saying the show will address it later when they’re ready. The first hint that began to make me a skeptic was killing of Greg and Tamara. But the death of Neal confirmed that they’re were never going to finish stories when they’re grown tired of them or when it doesn’t fit a certain plot.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but sometimes I wish OUAT didn’t Disney-fy the show so much. Season 1 and 2 didn’t seem to be too bad. But now with the intro to Frozen, it’s getting to feel like Once Upon a Disney marketing.
With a show that wants to make fairy-tale characters have real human emotion and complex relationships, it’s very hard to do that and keep it PG and have disney characters attached to it. Not while you keep showing a mass-murdering Evil Queen and have the heroes brush it off like it’s nothing and go unpunished. Or a womanizing pirate and have the heroine forget those attributes he’s carried for 300 years. Realistic human emotion should also portray realistic consequences or reaction to murder, rape, killing and torture. By all accounts the heroes should react a little more to all those actions. The fact that they’ve now attached OUAT characters with their Disney counterparts kinda taints it for me. And now people expect it to be light-hearted and funny without showing the ugly side of things. It just doesn’t work. It would be much easier if they’ve used the darker Grimm version of the tales if they want to mix modern realism and fantastical genre.
I think the show that perfectly mixed modern and fairy-tale was the “10th Kingdom”. I don’t know if anyone’s seen that miniseries. It aired on NBC years ago (if you didn’t I highly recommend it) It was the first time someone did the concept of modern fairy-tales, with a similar story of an abandoned girl and her father from New York, journeying through a magical land of Grimm fairy-tales with their own spin on the mythology.
What if Neal was alive and ended up in the past with Emma. (I think Neal would tease her when she got in her FTL outfit)Robbed of more Nealfire in EF clothes… 🙁
I declare it canon!
Corbin wrote:
Hook’s line in the finale (3×21), “One of these days, I’m going to stop chasing this woman.” Neal wouldn’t have ever said that. Neal would’ve let go the minute Emma did, because he loved her wholeheartedly. No snark needed.
Yep I didn’t care much for that line. It just reinforces Hook’s constant unhealthy push towards Emma. That and they purposely push Emma’s boobs up her corset for Hook to leer at. UGH…. unnecessary… seriously if they want to sell Hook’s goody two shoes role, stop reminding me he’s a misogynistic womanizing *beep*
Hugs to you Corbin. I’m sorry you had to go through that. We all have our share of life’s troubles, mine included. This is our home alright. Even though I’m not interested in catching the show on Sundays next season, I’ll still pop in this thread. But I’m still grateful that it introduces us to a great real life fairy-tale show while it lasted and made friends along the way that shared that passion.
Josephine wrote:
It wasn’t planned. If you watch the commentary for Manhattan on the DVD, Bobby Carlyle talks about how MRJ approached him before the scene, and they hadn’t even really met before that, and asked if he should include the hand movement. Bobby encouraged him to do it. It’s great that really the first time Rumple and Neal meet was really the first time Bobby and Mikey worked together.
Oh wow I didn’t know Bobby mentioned that in the commentary. Awesome! Just as I thought!:)
Slurpeez wrote:
Emma is being written as being all over the place. One day she’s hot, the next day she’s cold, and suddenly she’s back to hot by the finale. It just makes her look like a woman who doesn’t know her own mind, her own heart, or her own wishes. She has to be chased, which makes her look like the trophy to be won, rather than a woman who knows her own mind. One thing I’ll hand Regina is that she’s a woman in charge of her own destiny. Robin has made his romantic interest evident, but not in an off-putting way. Regina has likewise made her romantic interest be reciprocated in a mature fashion. Regina has as much reason, if not more so, to distrust the idea of a romantic interlude as Emma does, and yet Regina remained cool, composed and collected. By contrast, Emma has been written as a woman who at first rebuffed a man’s overt attentions but then crumbled under the relentless goading and cajoling
YEP! ^^^^ She was just a mess this season when she didn’t need to be. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
kfchimerawrote:
They may not follow polls, but I think they know which side of the bread the butter goes. More than that though? I don’t think they do have deep plans. I think it was disturbing in the last interview when they talked about how they felt like taking another toy off the shelf so now we get Frozen. I felt this moment I do with my children–NO, put the other toys away FIRST, then take another! That’s why their story is off kilter, they are like children grabbing at the shiny stuff, and while at first there’s fun and whimsy in that, eventually its chaotic and contradictory, because there’s a lack of cohesion in the story.
I think Emma will “set things right” by convincing Robin he doesnt’ “have” to stay with his wife, when he’s in love with Regina. So much for commitment, True Love trumps all! “You don’t have to stay together for your kid, just because you once loved each other, doesn’t mean you still do! I saw you and Regina…”etc. There’ll be enough subtext flying around that Emma is worried about Regina that SQ folks will be happy, even as CS/OQ fans are cheering on Robin and Regina’s eventual back-on-track romance. The only ones who will lose? Once again, those of us who kind of CARE about the side characters, morals, and things like that. Now don’t get me wrong–if they showed Robin and Marian as mismatched, not in love, I realize there’s love to be found in different family situations, that sometimes people aren’t right for each other. No one should be miserable for their kids, and I think if you love your kids, its healthier for all for happy coparenting from separate households, than miserable cohabiting, lots of arguments and such.
Yet it won’t be TOLD on screen why Robin and Marian suddenly mean zip to each other. And the way it is written, they will probably be used as proof that even if Neal lived, that Emma wouldn’t have wanted to be with him. I’m sure she’ll end up saying that more or less. I don’t know why, but I feel like there’s someone in the writers room who isn’t just content to tell the story of why Hook and Emma belong together now–but who HATES that anyone ever rooted for Neal and Emma.
The writers are retconning things left and right–literally changing the history of their own story!–and for some reason, I am worried they’re not done dumping dirt on Neal.The writers are a bunch of five year olds. They open up a toy play with it, smash it up, then it’s on to the next shiny thing they see. It’s becoming clear as the seasons roll by that’s how they handle their writing. Pretty appalling. 🙁
Your tent of doom scenario is not far off from what I think either. I’m afraid they’re going to crap all over Marion’s character to get Regina her happy ending. Trying to stay positive but season 3 has made it very hard to ever watch anything coming out from these writers ever again.
