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I just want to say major props to RG for speaking up for our beloved Neal in the podcast for 3×15. She did an amazing job of representing a pro-Nealfire perspective. Neal deserved better than he got in life. RG, you rocked!
Thanks!!!!!! It was hard because it brought it all back up again but…in a way: cathartic
*Sniff* Thanks for speaking out for SF and Neal fans RG. I haven’t listen to it yet but I’m going to download it first thing tomorrow
Guys that hole in my heart that was just slowly starting to heal just reopened again… 🙁
Seeing Hook in a more “gentleman’s” costume, honestly made me want to vomit. I’ll bet my money they’ve swept every crime he’s committed under the rug indefinitely. Not having to admit Milah was Neal’s mother whom he ran off with, selling Neal off to Pan, giving a half ass apology to Belle and then smirking about it. UGH, sorry if any CSers read this. It just hurts. There was no justice for Neal not even an apology from Hook in his last days, just a weird awkward hug as if he loved him like a son for a few days only to give him away. I don’t think I can look at Regina and Hook, hell not even Rumple (cause I’m sure the writers are going to make Rumple move on fast with Belle) Hell I’m not even happy for anyone who has the wedding. Not while thinking Neal is six feet under, who never got his second chance. Sorry people keep saying I should view the show for more then one character. Well honesty ever since mid season 2, every character except for Neal annoyed me a great deal. Neal was the only reason I stuck around. He was the only one I admired. He was the only one who I saw had integrity and he was my constant. He represent what the show was all about. No one cared about him while he cared about others. *Screams under a pillow*
[adrotate group="5"]not only that, I realized that probably can’t even watch any reruns on netflix anymore!! it’s disturbing even to do that anymore haha I used to watch and rewatch season 2 on Netflix so much, but now I can’t, I just can’t. I lost all of my excitement for this story.
Same I feel so haunted by Neal’s death. I can’t bear to watch Season 1 or 2 with any young Bae/Neal in it. Maybe eventually if I forget “Quiet Minds” ever happened. But knowing his eventual sad fate it just too hard. I’ll probably be screaming “Don’t go to Storybrooke!” at him. It’s been nothing but crap ever since he got there.
Someone asked if I stop watching if Neal is killed off. Well I think I’m going to keep to my word and not watch it live. Does that sound petty of me? I can’t support anything OUAT shows me anymore. I’m pretty much disillusioned by the latest episode.
We were talking about this earlier but yeah this was an awkward editing choice on their part Quiet Minds editing
Yeah I just read that and thought the exact same thing when I first watched the episode. It just absolutely disgusts me and why I cried my eyes out at the injustice of it all. I was open to OQ but after they awkwardly put that into Neal’s death episode it just made me feel so bitter about the whole situation. Neal the sacrificial lamb who did nothing but good all his life drops dead, cutting with Robin playing with his son, something Neal will never get to do with Henry again and then cutting to Regina who has killed, cursed, and destroyed countless families, not to mention saying “I regret none of it.” sees her chance at happiness.
WOW I wonder do they proof these scripts before shooting? Apparently not…
The more I read A&E’s interview the more I want to hurl something at them (Sorry I’m not usually violent). What A&E said about it being their “vision” is total baloney. The writing for Quiet Minds was just pure crap. Many people can see it was obviously a rushed, tacked on episode like what they did to August’s reset when the actor has other commitments. No build up whatsoever and now they have the gall to say they planned the death and they are ending a chapter (AKA reset on the whole Neal/Baelfire story to forget he ever existed) Excuse me? None of 3A look like the death was “planned” I clearly remember they scrapped the deleted scene of Rumple’s father running away from him as a child and decided to make Peter Pan Rumple’s father. They clearly wrote and shot the scene in the middle of season 2 and decided to scrap the idea at the last moment. Pan being Rumple’s father was definitely not planned that far in advance. I can see it being the case for Neal’s death too.
All of Neal’s lines were about getting second chances and Emma constantly lamenting over Neal. Which lead audience to believe they were going to do more with their story. I really think they wrote themselves into a corner and found that a majority of the audience did not resonate with Neal’s character as they had hoped and that MRJ was less then please with his character’s screentime and unpopularity, not to mention the hate he gets. The more they try to feed us the “Bold writing” statements the more I feel like it was a cover up and MRJ and A&E decided to go their separate ways.Agree, that is how me and some friends feel to. that is why i can even see the show anymore, the previous seasons, the story between rumple and bae, the reason why the show exist , died in a OC way, is like the whole 2.5 seasons were lie and on 312 they start writing a new show diferent without connection to previous seasons, not even with S3A
Agreed! They jumped all over the place in terms of the motivations with everyone.
I couldn’t agree more. I think a lot of us Neal fans feels CHEATED by the way Neal was just written out so quickly, like an afterthought. There was no evidence this was pre-planned whatsoever. In fact the evidence point the opposite direction: Emma went home to NYC, Neal’s home, woke up at 8:15 to “Charley’s Girl” and ended up in Neal’s home city because of a “fire” as in Baelfire.
Totally! I wouldn’t mind Neal’s death if it had REAL PURPOSE. It was have still been devestating but the reason why it hurt so bad was his unresolved character arc. No one can convince me otherwise that it made perfect sense. I’ve seen good death scenes and they always have a pattern of trying to find some closure to the character’s storylines. Even Red Queen before she kicked the bucket had 3 episodes devoted to her redemption. It made her death shocking, devesting but impactful all at the same time
What could potentially salvage this storyline, which should have been deep and emotional but instead just got brushed over, is if over the rest of S3B, Hook comes to realise exactly how much Neal really did mean to Emma, and accepts that she loves him, he’s not just some guy who left her years ago and she doesn’t give a crap. I want to see Hook witnessing some real grief from Emma over losing Neal, some real fire lit inside her to avenge his death, and then maybe Hook will finally get it through his skull how much Emma and Neal loved each other. And maybe seeing Henry without his memories of his father will get to Hook and make him sad, and make him realise that that’s how Bae grew up as well, when his mother wasn’t around and he’d been so young when she left, he probably had no real memory of her. And all of that coming together for Hook could then inspire him to help if they did find that there was a way to bring Neal back, and even though it was dangerous, he’d still do it, for the sake of saving Neal, to make up for having let him down all those years ago. And if that situation resulted in Hook’s death, then THAT would be a death that had reason, made sense, and had allowed a character to grow, which is the total opposite of what Neal’s death was, which was them making him regress to the point of being OOC for the sake of a plot device.
OH I WOULD LOVE FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. But I doubt it, thought I’d be shocked and jump right back aboard OUAT if they did. I’ve lost faith in A&E’s ability. It was dropping ever so slightly throughout season 3. Neal’s death was what severed my faith completely. But it’s a lovely thought. I can dream that it happens.
It’s like if you’ve been in a relationship with someone for 3 years, and suddenly things start to go wrong, and you have a foreboding sense that it’s gonna be the end, even though that’s not something you want to happen. This isn’t just about being pissed over a fave character dying, it’s the realisation that the entire show isn’t about what you thought it was about, that you’ve been duped, and you feel like a fool for having believed in it. THAT is why this is affecting so many people so deeply and drastically. If the rest of the fandom can’t understand that, then I guess they’ve been watching a different show to the one I have been.
Yep. It felt like I just broke up a 3 year relationship. I was devastated, sad, angry, frustrated. My heart weighted like a ton of bricks. I didn’t understand why, how, what happened. But it happend and you’re just picking up the pieces of your broken heart.
Hey guys, catching up to everyone’s posts. Wow it flew by today! My heavy heart lessen considerably, it no longer feels like I have stones inside of me. I was able to go to work today and actually concentrate. Though I’m still not ready to watch the episode without feeling that pain again. Nor do I think I can for a long time.
I’ve gone from grief to anger now. Just wanted to post what I wrote (basically self therapy for myself) with all the thoughts inside my head that I just needed to drain out. Posting it everywhere and anywhere. It helped a great deal. Forgive the harshness, I was in a rage mode when I typed this:
After crying my eyes out and letting it sink in. I found the episode utterly atrocious at the way it was written. I don’t care what the writers are going on about it being BOLD and feeling “right”. It was a rushed cheap cop out to get rid of the character fast. In the process it made Neal OOC throughout the whole episode, made his death a convoluted plot device that held little meaning and felt repetitive, and then nullified the purpose of season 1-2 all in one fell swoop.
There was absolutely no build up or resolution to his character arc. I can only lament at the wasted potential of his character and the many unanswered questions. What happened in the 200 years he spent in Neverland? What happened when he got to land without magic? What happened in between the 10 years he left Emma? There are just full of holes in his story that will probably never be touched on again. Also there was little to no resolution to the issues Neal faced. He never made due to his promise to see Henry again. He and Emma never really talked about their relationship or whether or not it was salvageable. He barely reconciled with his father in a mere day or so over the 200+ years of hurt. He and Hook hardly touched on their pseudo father/son relationship and the betrayal. All these missing pieces that could have been built up leading to his death were utterly WASTED. Instead they shoehorned everything within 1-2 minutes of each other. If he had to die, a good death would have had his character arc build up and his story-lines pretty much wrapped. The audience would have been lulled into a false sense of security and then bam, he would go out saving the people he loves after his closure.
The other thing that infuriated me was him being OOC. Neal just blatantly using dark magic when he’s been weary of magic all his life and a DO vault that was whipped out of nowhere for plot device. If there was build up on his dilemma on turning to the darkness, I can understand, but it just came out of left field with the 5 minutes of screen time. Also his line about his father teaching him the true meaning of sacrifice was a WTF moment for me. Neal knew about sacrifice. He sacrificed all his life! I found his sacrifice by falling into the portal to save Emma so that Henry won’t be an orphaned more meaningful then the sacrifice then in this episode. All he essentially sacrifices his life for was so that Rumple can divulge a name, which if the Charmings had an iota of a brain would’ve figured it out already. It also cheapened Rumple’s sacrifice at the end of 3A. He sacrificed his life so that Bae and Belle could be happy, only to be brought back to watch his son die again. Rumple’s sacrifice was meaningful because he let go of magic and instead of clinging onto his son he let go to rectify his wrongs. The BOLD thing to do was to let Rumple die permanently. But alas the show was too scared to let Robert C go. I loved Rumple’s character but now it’s getting repetitive to see his man-pain over losing his son AGAIN! UGH! We’ve explored this already in season 1-3A!!!
Where was that CaptainFire hug in 3A??? Absolutely rushed and was an ill attempt to make Hook look better before Neal kicked the bucket. And I didn’t buy the CaptainFire scene for a second. Hook makes it seem like his took Bae in as a son but they fail to mention anything about Hook giving Bae away to Pan because god forbid, they actually ACKNOWLEDGE Hook’s wrong doings. It wouldn’t hurt to have Hook say “Betraying you to Pan was a mistake I regretted all my life.” Or something to that effect, would’ve done worlds for Hook’s character and Bae’s resolution. But no it was yet another crime they just brushed over, and in Neal’s death episode no less!
It also pretty much shattered my viewing of the show as a whole about love, happy endings, and second chances, themes that were pretty much shove down our throats since season 1. Neal/Bae was a person that had crap thrown at him all his life and he never found one ounce of peace in the 300 years his spent alive. That just saddens me to the point of losing hope for myself. Neal was a regular person that I could identify with and looked up to. He wasn’t a monster or murder, but he certainly wasn’t perfect. He made mistakes but he own up to those mistakes, he didn’t brush it aside, and he acknowledge he did wrong. I admire his strength of will of being a good person even against immense obstacles and betrayal. He constantly put others first before himself, which I’ve rarely seen others do for him. He also wasn’t one who took Rumple’s crap, he stood up and told it like it is. People hated him for it but it was the truth.
So to see a good character like Neal just die in the worst way possible was utterly heartbreaking and pretty much destroyed the theme of second chances. People are going to say that’s how life is; some people don’t get happy endings. Really? On a show that preaches about Happy Endings like its gospel? Like it could actually happen? But it seems like in this show no GOOD person gets happy endings, Graham, Lancelot, etc…now Neal. It feels like it a slap in the face. I don’t want to watch villains get second chances, I watch the average joe like Neal (in reflection to myself as the average joe) get a second chance. But no you do good, you work hard, you sacrifice all your life, and then you die. What sort of message does that send across???? I guess I better shoot someone to get my happy ending, because lord knows I do good or make one mistake it gets me killed in the end. There is a horrible imbalance here.
Villains can walk about scott free giving half ass apologies and are able to get a second chance at life and love? WTF? That’s like watching my abuser walking free while I’m six feet under. I don’t believe any sort of message OUAT send across now. If they didn’t preach about happy endings so hard I wouldn’t feel this bitter.
Game of Thrones had tons of sad death scenes, the only difference is that they don’t have posters with taglines that say “second chances” written next to the character they just killed (oh the irony!) GOT’s tag lines are “All men must die” and “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.” I fully expect a survival of the fittest mentality when watching GOT. They follow through with their messages. To preach about everyone getting Hope and Second Chances and kill off the one that actually DESERVES it the most, pretty much rips at me harder than any walking dead or GOT death scene ever.Now I just don’t care about the show anymore. I don’t care about any of the present characters either. Charmings are just naïve, pushovers, that let the villians do whatever they want, never having the balls to off someone. Regina and her constant flip flop good/evil thing is getting old hat. Her line of “I regret nothing” and “Someone to destroy.” Has shown me she’s learned nothing for 3 seasons and makes me want to pound my fist on the table. Hook’s constant pinning for Emma, Emma, Emma is also getting old and boring. He pretty much lost his manhood at this point. Rumple’s lamenting over Neal and Belle is also getting old. Emma is slowly turning into Charmings 2.0. Letting the Hook just get under her skin so easily. I was also appalled that she would pair Hook with Belle as her protector. OMG even when Belle obviously looked uncomfortable with the idea. After all he assaulted her twice, pointed a gun at her face, and actually shot her. Call freakin Leroy or Granny or hell Red! Why Hook??? And Emma had to pry an apology from Hook, as if that would make it any better. JFC!
The show turned into a shadow of its former self. I hoped A&E would turn it around, but I was wrong. After all why Hope? They taught me that it’s pointless and futile. Fate kicks you in the arse, you just have to accept it.
I guess I’m just done. My enthusiasm for this show ended when Neal died. Maybe I’ll catch it once in a while but it’s off my list on Sundays.
I’ve had a headache since I woke up. I’m angry. I’m sad and I think I’m all cried out. At some point I have to resurface and be a Mod. This thread will never die. I refuse to let it. Thank you for today, guys
I’ve had a headache too and an upset stomach. And thank you too. At least we still have each other. And our crafting thread. 🙂 *HUGS*
Yes Hugs to everyone here. I feel sooo much better then I felt yesterday. I still tear up from time to time and that pang in my heart hits whenever someone posts about Neal. But I’m really glad that this thread is still active and a safe haven to all Neal fans. Thank you RG. I think you’ve been very strong going through this and moderating at the same time. I know it’s painfully difficult, especially now. My hat goes off to you.
Night….
Emma has the necklace back now. And at the final battle of this season, when all seems lost and nothing has worked to break the curse, you’ll see her hold it and it will start to glow. And she’ll realize that true love never really dies and once you’ve had it, it’s always a part of you. And Emma alone (with Neal’s beyond-the-grave true love) will break the curse. True love never really dies. Sometimes we lose the people we love, but they’re always a part of us.
Beautiful! 🙂
Can I also say that I am really mad that some people are saying that since Belle is the one to tell Neal that the Swan keychain was born from true love that it’s not confirmation that Neal and Emma had true love. Apparently since Belle isn’t an authority on Neal or true love, her statement doesn’t count as true love. So not only is the way paved clear for CS, now SF isn’t true love so it doesn’t matter. I feel so done, right now.
I’m not sure why they insist on trying to argue even this. Seriously? SF is already sunk, I guess they want it in the deep depths of the ocean…
Whatever! The swanfire necklace survived the trip. Even Neal was dumbfounded that he had it with him. It’s telling that it was true love. It survived the journey because they’re love was powerful. They produced the Heart of the Truest Believer. No one is gonna convince me otherwise.
What did you say RG? I must have missed it. Since when are we not allowed to opinions?
I tweeted something to Adam about how I didn’t understand the message and then someone from our site here tweeted me back telling me that not everyone gets a happy ending. I’m pretty resentful of people telling me that.
Well, the showrunners were the ones that touted that this was a show about hope and happy endings so I think it’s a valid question. You didn’t ask why he didn’t get a happy ending, you asked what the message was or that you didn’t understand. People sometimes.
I don’t listen to what other commenters say, especially in regards to Life’s a b*** motto. Yeah I know that but not what they forced feed us in this show until now apparently…. You can tell Neal is not their favorite character so of course they’re not as heartbroken as we are. You’re allowed your question and it’s a valid one, after everything they spoon feed us with the dialogue.
Neal’s “This isn’t over I’ll see both of you again.”
Rumple’s “I came back to make sure you had a happy ending.”
Robin’s “Everyone gets second chances”
They all seem very hypocritical statements at this point.
