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Evil Queenie day on sunday (well monday for me) That will also be my perfect day đ This is another thing I would like to thank Once for- Making me love mondays!
OkayâŚIâll admit, I slightly jumped when Queenie appeared in front of Snow like that! XD Quote
Me too đ
I got the feeling this was a dream, but maybe just couse Snow woke up there.. We will see.
[adrotate group="5"]Sciencevsmagic– I can definitely see what you are saying. And I agree, those would all be really good moral lessons. They also would have potential for great story telling. However, I still feel that that would have made a very different show than the one we see. We could not have our main characters- villains or heroes in these same situations, as they are in now, if they had put so much emphasis on said evil acts. (Unless it had been, as Rumplesgirl suggested, a scene of a meeting with some of their victims in the underworld) They could have done that.
But they chose to push it into the background as much as possible. To use metaphoric language (which I often do to explain myself, sorry about that) They put a veil over those evil acts, so that we donât see much of them,, they are not spoken about in too many details, so that they donât become an important or bright color in the picture they are painting of our main villains. We see those colors but they are veiled so much so, that all the other colors stand out more. This makes those evil acts less important to the story and also less important and less visible to the viewer. The average viewer will not see or think too much about those evil acts and therefor will not take them into consideration when judging, or taking away, what morals they are showing us..
But I guess itâs also a matter of how much you are willing to forgive the writers and creators for, as a viewer I mean. As I said, there are glitches in the storytelling, but I forgive those because I like what they are showing us and I enjoy seeing the characters in the situations the writers put them in.
quote Rumplegirl  “And this bothers me. You basically wrote several paragraphs extolling the virtues of the showâs themes of family, forgiveness and togetherness. All virtues that you find in the real world, but if we try to point out the vices and say how *those* are giving a bad message, suddenly âitâs just a TV show.â Those two sentiments seems pretty antithetical.
What I mean by that is, often I think people are taking the show way too seriously. Thatâs not meant as a judgement, you can take the show as seriously as you want. Im only saying that- For me, it would be taking it too seriously. So it was meant as a question, as I wonder why people look at it that way. Taking it seriously is what makes people see all these bad morals, I think. I donât think the creators sat out thinking lets make this show, so we can teach the people some of these important moral lessons. I think they just wanted to make a fun show. And as I tried to say above- Yes the bad morals are there, if you look beyond the veil. But I donât think the average viewer looks there,, thatâs why this is not the main moral lessons that they will learn.
Of course the show, and any tv show, is a mirror or lens showing us some of our real world. I think I said that wrong. And if they didnât, they would be really bad and boring tvshows.
(First let me just say sorry for rambling a bit in this post. I had a hard time explaining my thoughts here, but I hope you get my meaning)
Okay, if we could get into the topic of the moral of the killings and the redeemed villains a bit, because Im curious to know how you guys would have liked the show to address these things?
Let me just stick to the two main villains, who are also redeemed or partially redeemed (even if this is back tracked again) Rumple and Regina. They are factually mass murderers and have both taken the lives of probably 100s of people in the Enchanted Forest. They are (most likely both) rapists. They are abductors. They have even killed children (Regina let her soldiers wipe out a village, so there would have been some there. So these acts are basically the most vile things, any human being could ever do. If these things happened in real life, I think we all agree that such a person would and should be locked up, in some way shape or form, for the rest of their lives.
But how should a show like Once deal with it? They could have locked them both up at the end of season 1 and we could have had a complete different show. Either one which would have taken place inside a jail cell, or one without the two main characters present. The latter would have been a bummer.. The first would have just been different.
OUAT is more concerned with redemption as opposed to justice. Itâs why a lot of the misdeed the villains have done get largely ignored after the fact. Itâs why none of the villains had to face their victims in the Underworld but instead had their hero status/reformed status reemphasized QuoteÂ
RG âexactly my point here. The show isnât about justice for the violent act, but about the human behind the act.
The showsâ creators chose to make these two villains as vile as they could possibly be. Now we can discuss if that was needed, or if they could have mellowed them down a bit, but as I understand it, they did that because of how iconic the Evil Queen and the Rumpelstitzkin characters are to the fairytale universe. It wouldnt have been as great to have a mellow Evil Queen or Rumple.
And then they needed to try and show them as humans and to give them redeeming qualities. Im not saying there isnât some kind of glitch in this choice, because when you strip away all the âthingsâ and just look the acts of violence and then look at where our villains are now, there is definitely a glitch⌠but I donât see how they could have told the same story, that they chose to try to tell, without sort of âforgettingâ the violent acts, or pushing those of to the background.
I feel that the show has pushed them so far off into the background, that they are essentially meaningless to the moral of the show. When we think of Regina and Rumple in Storybrook- the show is not showing us mass murderers,, we are shown people who have made wrong choices and thereby hurt other people, but not mass murderers. Not that that is not what they are.. But again, those acts are pushed to the background, so much so, that they become pointless. This, I feel, is not the show condoning mass murder ((I mean of course its not, they aint that crazy)) Itâs the shows way of trying to put these iconic villains in a positive story and make them human..
Its one way of doing it.. And had they chosen another way. Granted- what had possibly been a more rational way .. We would have a completely different show. Had the show not pushed the acts of violence into the background, they could not be telling this same story of these same villains working with- and creating loving bonds with the heroes. We would not have seen a show, where the villains and heroes had become friends and family to each other. And I kinda like that they are that now.
So here we are- We have these two major iconic villains- Who we know have done really bad things.. But- We want them to become human and we want the heroes to forgive them and take them in as part of their family.. How are we gonna do that? Thatâs what I imagine the showsâ creators asked themselves at the beginning of writing this show. And we are seeing their answer. What is yours?
Im asking this because, every time a topic like this comes up. I think to myself- Why are people looking at it like that? To me its like you are looking at it through the lens of the real word. And it is just a tvshow afterall.
Like I said previously, I donât think kids, and other viewers, will take away a bad moral from this show.. what they will take away, isnât that mass murder can be swept under the carpet. They will take away -Family bonds, Friendships and Forgiveness.
But how do you guys feel they should have done it?
I wanted to think more about this theory, because it is a different idea that I hadnât considered. I would like this as a story.. but only if told on a different show. Not on Once, because I think that then the reveal of it, would come much too late. Our characters would all of a sudden be completely different people from those we knowâŚ. I woudnt like this.
But on some positive notes to the theory..- I always wanted Snow to be more corrupt, because metaphorically, it would fit nicely with the Snow White character. Like snow is a beautiful white vail or mask that covers the rotting stuff underneath. And Snows character has always lacked some edge.. there was a bit of it in Bandit Snow, but since coming to Storybrook,, she really hasnât been doing too much. It seems like she (and Charming) is kind of sidelined all the time⌠So in a sense, it would be awesome if we found out a reason for that.. like if there actually was a part of her personality that was missing all this time.. but please, lets not rob that personality of off Regina đ
I also, like you, always had a problem with how they wrote the reason for Regina turning against Snow and turning to dark magic. It was too weak a reason.. I mean really! Why would she blame an 11 year old girl for telling a secret?⌠even if Regina thought Snow did it because she wanted her as a stepmotherâŚ. The reason is still not good enough in my mind⌠And I have had to come up with different or more fleshed out reasons in my head, that I think of as my own head canon đ
But I donât see any clues, or I cant remember any, that would point to your theory in the show? The scenes you mentioned, I think are just to show that Snow is not ALL good, she does have a potential for darkness or for making wrong decisions, just like the rest of the characters. But again, because of the weakness in the writing,, we sort of feel the need to come up with more fleshed out story for her in our own minds.
The interview, I think, we cant really consider as a clue, since Ginny hasnât known where her or the overall story was gonna be going from the beginning to the end and she dosnt even know where its going to go now.
I did try considering how this theory could work. And I guess it would be something like this: Around the time when Regina came to Snows fathers castle, or in the first couple of years of her living in the castle, Something happened (but what?) To make Reginaâs and Snowâs personalities mix.. Now! I kind of like this part of the idea⌠it would be interesting if something like that had happened. Also wasnât this sort of the thing that happened with Lily and Emma?– the Charming couple put Emmaâs darkness into Lily right? Knowing Adam and Eddyâs fondness for telling the same type of stories multiple times.. it wouldnt surprise if they were doing it again here. It could have been Rumple who manipulated someone to want to put Snowâs darkness into Regina. If Rumple knew that it was only Regina that he would be able to manipulate into casting the curse. But again, I think, this would be bad for the Regina character. On the other hand, It would put a reason behind Reginaâs unrelenting bloodthirst for Snows heart, if it was the evil side of Snow that was longing to have its own heart beating in its chest.. thatâs also a cool part to this idea.
So I guess, perhaps it could work.. We never know with this show⌠I just really wouldnât like it. Because as I mentioned, it would take away too much from Reginaâs character. And I also donât know what kind of moral that would give to the story.
Lol brilliant !! and Lol at Zelenas âI didnât mean a thingâ *sips tea*⌠That was pure gold, this was the gold which was spun from the EQ and Rumple thing đ shady gold.
But EQâs deranged looks are starting to grind on my nerves.. someone calm her down please. She does need a heart, but what it is, is that she needs to get back in with her own heart.
But thatâs not what people and kids will take away with them from the show. Because the amoral actions didnât get any of the characters anything good,, in the end, it only brought them into worse situations. It was always only the good actions that brought them into better situations. So isnât that what kids are gonna take away from the show? Like really kids. Donât kill your fathers, cause that will bring hell on you and everyone will hate you.
The moral of the story,, I would say, is something like – You are never so bad that you cant do better – .. They will take away- That family always sticks together. Donât condemn your enemy but help your enemy, so that he might become your friend.. stuff like that..
Henry cursing- lolz ! Firstly, to me this wasnât cursing.. and it never crossed my mind that this could be considered morally corrupt. These conversations only happen in America you guys đ
And him being âromanticâ with Violet. ! This is the most innocent âromanceâ ever. Also is Henry not 16 on the show?.. He can not only be 13? He started off as an 11 year old and years have passed in the shows universe.. like atleast 4 and then there was the year that we didnât see, when Emma and Henry lived memory-less in New York.. so he should be about 16.
The only thing, in my opinion, that might be bad for young kids on this show, is stuff like scary squid monsters and such.
This AU stuff is messing with my head.. I cant see anything good coming out of this right at this moment.. only more screwed up storylines.. But I love to be surprised.
Aslong as we go back to normal universe in the end of it, I will be okay with it.
Wow! well I was looking for a good reason for why EQ is still after Snows heart. And this theory is certainly different and unique. I certainly wouldnt have ever thought of that… But Im not sure I can ever get onboard to liking it though..
No No really I wouldnt like that  đ .. It would totally ruin my fave character Regina/EQ… she has to be both.
And what would be the meaning of twisting the story into that? Im just asking, cause its interesting how that would work…and I want to understand exactly what you mean..
edited in: Hmmm you have gotten me thinking.. so now i will be pondering over this idea all night… thanks for no sleep đ …kidding!
I think the press release is incorrect when it calls the Rumple and EQ alliance a âburgeoning romanceâ much like it was incorrect when it said Belle was afraid of Rumple. That kiss was not romantic, it was a power play like Cora in season 2.
exactly! Its a complete power play between them, nothing more.. Like in the flashback where Evil Queen Regina says something like “oh the student has outdone the teacher” and thats when Rumple sniffs her.
For a different convo, you could say that it is a bit disturbing how, when ever they are displaying any kind of sexiness on this tvshow, it is shown to be someone holding power over a nother… But I wont get into that here.
Destiny has always been a force in this show but so has free will.
I agree. Mostly free will is given reign, but certain things seem predestined â true loves getting together for example, or Merlinâs prophecies. My theory is that this is related to the prophecy of a boy being Rumpleâs undoing. That was never resolved, and it could well be Morfetus. So this could be the fate Rumple is trying to cleave himself from.
Great idea!
Uh ! Yes ! This is a great idea.. I really hope that will be the case.
And LOLZ at the “Morfetus” name :¨D Who came up with that?
